Talk:Gypsy scale

Guitar Grimoire

"The Hungarian Gypsy Scale, which consists of a natural minor scale in which the fourth and seventh are sharp (or, alternatively, a major scale in which the third and sixth are flat and the fourth is sharp)"

According to the Guitar Grimoire (which is compatible with all instruments) this is partially incorrect. To the minor scale only the fourth is sharp. To the major scale the third, sixth and seventh are flat and the fourth is sharp. The scale would be just Hungarian Minor without these corrections.

"The Spanish Gypsy Scale, which is a scale that may be played on the white keys of a piano from E to E, but with the G sharpened. The Spanish Gypsy Scale is one of the modes of the harmonic minor scale, and is also sometimes also known as the Phrygian major scale."

Again this is partially correct according to the Guitar Grimoire. It is true that the G would be sharpened, but it is not called "Phrygian Major" nor "Spanish Gypsy". To the Harmonic Minor scale it should be called Phyrgian natural Third, because the normal Phrygian scale has the G natural instead of sharpened. I can see why it should be called the Spanish Gypsy scale because of its flamenco sound and style.

An example of Phrygian Major (in D) is the intro line to Tool's Forty Six & 2.

I would like to emphasize that the Guitar Grimoire is Music Theory for all instruments not just the guitar. I hope my discussion expands the information already displayed for musicians reading this article.

-Conan from Exmortus (www.myspace.com/exmortus)

Also, the example listed (C+Db+E+F+G+Ab+B+C / Half Aug Half Whole Aug Half) is actually a double harmonic minor scale. I've corrected things accordingly. 72.218.207.235 (talk) 16:32, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

Too many errors on this page

I share Conan's opinions on the matters above and my source is different to his adding further weight to our positions.

According to Dave Celentano, in his book "Killer Scales and Modes for guitar" the "Hungarian Gypsy" is an Aeolian #4th not a mode of the Double Harmonic Scale. This is the scale described here as "Gypsy Minor".

As for Phrygian Major Scale I have not heard this name, "Phrygian Dominant" is the widely accepted term.

IMHO there are too many mode names banded around, for every non-repeating septatonic scale there are 7 modes this profligacy results in confusion. I wish people would just stick to a single nominative mode and then refer to the "fourth mode" etc of the nominative mode. The differences between modes built from a given parent scale are trivial and do not warrant the confusion created.

I intend to flag this page and that on Hungarian Gypsy and hope that the matter can be resolved. Information on such scales is a little obscure and Wikipedia, being very famous, could resultantly cause too much confusion.

Andrew F. (talk) 12:20, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

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how about #7

A B C D# E F G# A - that is THE gypsy scale. what would you call it? and can someone add it to the page? thank you —Preceding unsigned comment added by 150.250.191.84 (talk) 16:44, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

Gypsy scales are double harmonic scales

According to Theo Willemze in his Muzieklexicon (ISBN 9027447330) a gypsy scales are scales with two 1½ step intervals.
The harmonic minor scale with #4, described above as THE gypsy scale, is a common example, often also named Hungarian Gypsy scale.
The notes are: 1-2-b3-#4-5-b6-7
sources:
http://jguitar.com/scale/C%23/Hungarian%20Gypsy
http://www.worldlingo.com/ma/enwiki/en/Hungarian_gypsy_scale

Willemze also gives a Spanish gypsy scale:
1-b2-3-4-5-b6-7

and a North-African one:
1-b2-3-4-b5-6-b7

Given this definition, it is impossible to arrive at a gypsy scale by altering a single note in any scale derived from the major scale. The scales given (aeolean #4 and the fifth mode of harmonic minor) are therefore not gypsy scales. Obviously, the name gypsy scale would refer to a scale used commonly in gypsy music (and not, or scarcely, in other music). For classification reasons, sticking to the group name "double harmonic scale" would probably work best. However, care should be taken not to imply use of quarter-tones. phave (talk) 11:03, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

I would trust the three sources already cited (one with a page number). Hyacinth (talk) 10:40, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

To add to the confusion here, the scale also seems to be indistinguishable from the Flamenco mode. Do we really need three pages for the same scale, or am I missing something here? WillieBlues (talk) 04:21, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

Lydian minor

With a sharpened fourth degree, the scale could be thought of as Lydian minor, or Lydian dominant-minor (♭3 [♭6] ♭7). CPGACoast (talk) 18:09, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

Why is double harmonic called Gypsy "minor"?

It has a major tonality (♮3), and three of the degrees are sharpened. CPGACoast (talk) 18:19, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

You are right, the double harmonic scale is major, but with two flattened degrees, not three sharpened ones. The name "minor Gypsy scale" actually refers to another scale. I have corrected the mistake. Burzuchius (talk) 17:45, 14 March 2014 (UTC)

Ciprian scale

The claim that it this scale is also known as the Ciprian scale has been uncited since 12 2010, so I have removed it. Hyacinth (talk) 11:24, 16 February 2014 (UTC)

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