Talk:Guthy-Renker/Archive 1

Proposed Deletion

I believe the entirety, or nearly the entirety, of this article is about product promotion and search engine optimization. If anyone objects they can remove the proposed deletion tag from the page and the proposed deletion process stops. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tjc (talk • contribs) 14:47, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

References

Removed the section on the quality of Guthy-Renker skin care products, since the citation is a link to a QVC users forum, and definitely not an acceptable source per WP:V. Doctoroz (talk) 01:11, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

There is no mention in the article of Guthy-Renker's connection to Tony Robbins, the self-help guru. There appears to be a substantial connection and it would be appropos for someone to research this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Brokenarch (talk • contribs) 18:24, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

Updated Intro

Updated intro paragraph for tone, as well as to match operating locations to company web site. Added citation.Mpardo916 (talk) 16:54, 7 September 2011 (UTC)

Updated Intro, Products List, Added Partnerships

Updated products list to match corporate site, added citation, re-ordered intro for coherence and created partnerships section to better categorize contentMpardo916 (talk) 14:37, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

Added Leadership Section

Added "leadership" section, with details on corporate founders, including citations.Mpardo916 (talk) 20:58, 23 September 2011 (UTC)

Updated Leadership Section

Added award to "leadership" section bio, with citation. Mpardo916 (talk) 14:36, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

Reads like an ad

Article reads like an ad, not an encyclopedia 68.108.8.203 (talk) 22:16, 14 December 2011 (UTC) I don't care that this page has lots of citations, I agree 68.108.*.* that this page reads like an ad. It is promotional in its tone throughout. I am contemplating how to fix or if it would be appropriate to submit it to articles for deletion.Tjc (talk) 17:21, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

Updated Leadership, Citations and External Links

Added board members to leadership section, updated citations and added external links to websites of products that are listed in articleMpardo916 (talk) 17:11, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Updated Products

Began adding details of individual product lines to Products section, including citations to brand sites where product lines are listedMpardo916 (talk) 17:40, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

Added Award

Added Horatio Alger Award to Greg Renker bio sectionMpardo916 (talk) 19:18, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

• I revised this addition to better meet Wikipedia standards: I rephrased the language to a neutral point of view, I included an internal link to the existing Wikipedia article that deals with the Horatio Alger Award, and I used an independent reliable source, The Desert Sun newspaper, as the source for this information. --Arxiloxos (talk) 21:30, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

Proposed Strategy for Guthy-Renker Page Improvement

To start with, I would like to disclose to the community that I am currently employed with a company associated with Guthy-Renker so I am officially disclosing my potential COI status in editing this page. I am making this disclosure with the intention of allowing the community to make an assumption of good faith on my part, and creating a discussion that helps to create an appropriate page for the Guthy-Renker brand here on Wikipedia.

With that said, while I see the point made about the current Guthy-Renker page focusing too much on product promotion and SEO I suggest we collaborate to develop a page that focuses more on a company overview approach. For example, unlike other corporate pages Guthy-Renker lacks a corporate history and a corporate affairs section. I propose a new layout that includes a historical timeline of the company, information on executive management, a history of their products and a corporate affairs section. I suggest this based on some other corporate pages that seem to have been well received by the Wikipedia community, such as: Johnson &Johnson (history section), IBM (corporate affairs section), General Electric (corporate affairs section), and Proctor and Gamble (description of multiple brands and products). I move to start this transition in the upcoming weeks and would appreciate any community feedback prior. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nsnoddy (talk • contribs) 16:22, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

Follow Up on Proposed Strategy for Guthy-Renker Entry

I wanted to follow up with the community on the proposed strategy I presented above. I think we could make this page stronger if we focus on more of a company overview. Please see the page outline I suggested above. Please let me know if anyone has any feedback regarding this idea or would like to collaborate on the new entry. Otherwise, I'll be getting started on the updates in the coming weeks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nsnoddy (talk • contribs) 15:29, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

This article needs substantial coverage about the company in independent reliable sources. Right now, the beginning of the article is about the company, but is sourced entirely to the company. The rest of the article, about Greg Renker and Bill Guthy is sourced to apparently independent sources, all added by an earlier SPA/conflicted editor, Mpardo916.

One thing this article does not need, IMO, is another WP:SPA/conflicted editor. This article has had its share, and then some: Bakeryfresh, Anon8781, 12.158.238.190 (resolves to Gunthy-Renker), Editorella, Pgustafson, Wikiburk, etc. - SummerPhD (talk) 21:28, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

Updating Product List

I am removing the following products since they are no longer listed on the Guthy Renker website; The Dean Martin Celebrity Roasts, The Dean Martin Variety Show, The Carol Burnett Show Collection, Youthful Essence, The Midnight Special and In An Instant. Here is a link to their current products as a reference, http://www.guthy-renker.com/products/. Nsnoddy (talk) 23:26, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

I am restoring them as former products sold by Guthy Renker. - SummerPhD (talk) 03:20, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

I agree with SummerPhD; especially to the extent these products are/were notable or connected with notable sponsors, they should continue to be mentioned in the article as a matter of information and to facilitate navigation.--Arxiloxos (talk) 04:26, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

A quick reminder to Nsnoddy: As a conflicted editor, it is recommended that you avoid editing these articles or, at the very least, seek consensus before making changes. - SummerPhD (talk) 04:49, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

Cleanup Request Edit

Hi. I wanted to start by requesting a quick cleanup of prior COI editing. I've prepared a very quick draft of what I believe the article looks like when the primary sources and off-topic content is removed. I felt it was important before we offer any new content contributions that we volunteer to clean our own house. I'll be back later on to help re-build the article neutrally using secondary sources.

Proposed version with COI editing cleaned up

Guthy-Renker LLC is a direct-response marketer that sells products through infomercials and direct to consumer media channels. The company was established in 1998 and named after its founders Billy Guthy and Greg Renker. Guthy-Renker is headquartered in Santa Monica, CA. Products Proactiv Solution - Acne treatments Meaningful Beauty - Beauty treatment created by Dr. Jean-Louis Sebagh and Cindy Crawford Wen by Chaz Dean - Haircare system Sheer Cover - Mineral makeup by Leeza Gibbons X Out - one-step Acne treatment for Teens Principal Secret - Skincare system represented by Victoria Principal Natural Advantage - Skin treatment represented by Jane Seymour Malibu Pilates - Created by Carroll Krieff and represented by Susan Lucci Ultimate Edge - Self-help DVDs by Tony Robbins Discontinued products Youthful Essence - Skincare system represented by Susan Lucci In an Instant - Skincare system created by Heidi Klum The Dean Martin Celebrity Roasts - DVD compilations The Dean Martin Variety Show - DVD compilations The Carol Burnett Show Collection - DVD compilations The Midnight Special - DVD compilations External links Official website

CorporateM (Talk) 00:45, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

First draft

I have been coaching Guthy-Renker through the preparation of a first draft of the Guthy-Renker article for Wikipedia's consideration below. Some of the sources are difficult to access, but let me know if an editor would like the source material and I can dig it up. I believe it is an improvement over the current and appreciate your time considering our work. CorporateM (Talk) 17:33, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

Draft Guthy-Renker article

Guthy-Renker Company type Private Industry Direct Marketing Founded 1988 Headquarters Santa Monica, CA Area served Worldwide Key people Bill Guthy and Greg Renker, founding principals and co-chairmen Revenue $1.8 billion (2012) Website www.guthy-renker.com Guthy-Renker LLC is a direct-response marketing company that sells products through infomercials and other direct to consumer channels. The company is known for selling celebrity-endorsed products through high-production-value infomercials. Guthy-Renker was founded in 1988 by Bill Guthy and Greg Renker, after the Co-Founders created an infomercial for a self-help book they were both fans of, Think and Grow Rich. The company grew to $60 million by 1993, when Ron Perelman bought a 37.5 percent share in the company. In the 1990s, Guther Renker started selling cosmetics, household goods and fitness products and grew internationally, reaching $1.5 billion in revenues by 2009. History Guthy-Renker's Co-Founders and Co-Chairman, Bill Guthy and Greg Renker, met at the Indian Wells Racquet Club and Resort. Guthy's family had a leased vacation home there and Renker worked for his father, who owned the resort. After the Federal Communications Commission eliminated restrictions on the length of advertisements in 1984, Paul Simon created the first long-form infomercial to sell his real-estate investment courses. He ordered 50,000 cassette copies of his lectures from Guthy's audiocassette duplication company, Cassette Productions Unlimited. After taking the order, Guthy talked about the infomercial concept with Renker and the two of them invested $100,000 to buy the rights to a self-help book they were both fans of, "Think and Grow Rich." In 1988 they aired their first infomercial for the book, which grossed $10 million, with former football quarterback Fran Tarkenton. In November 1988, the two Co-Founders formed Guthy-Renker and began marketing other self-help and motivational courses, starting with the Personal Power series of motivational lectures. At the time many infomercial companies posed their ads as news specials. Guthy-Renker disclosed the show was a paid advertisement at the beginning of each program and made professional-quality infomercials when most looked like home-videos. Renker was invited to testify to a Congressional subcommittee in 1990 regarding ethics in advertising, which led Guthy-Renker and others to form the National Infomercial Marketing Association to create industry standards. The following year, news coverage of the Persian Gulf War drew television viewers away from infomercials and Guthy-Renker had to cut back operations. Ron Perelman bought a 37.5 percent share of Guthy-Renker in 1993 in exchange for $25 million and priority access to air-time on Perelman's television stations. At the time, Guthy-Renker had grown to $60 million in revenue. In 1996, Perelman's stake in the company was resold to News Corp and Guthy-Renker bought it back. Two years later, a stake in the company, estimated to be worth $3 billion, was sold to Goldman Sachs. In 1998, a Japanese trading company, Nissho Iwai Group, bought a 17 percent portion of Guthy-Renker's Asia subsidiary for $9 million. Guthy-Renker created a television station for infomercials called GRTV in 1996, which was sold to TVN Entertainment Corporation in 1999. Market research showed that 70 percent of Guthy-Renker's audience were women, so the company started hiring female celebrities to sell cosmetics and skin-care products, starting with Victoria Principal for the Principal Secret cosmetics line in 1991. From 1995-1997, Guthy-Renker created seven new subsidiaries. These included Guthy-Renker Radio, Internet, Select Network, International and Fitness, as well as subsidiaries like an online dating service and a psychic business that didn't perform well. The infomercial company started marketing housewares, the Perfect Smile teeth whitening product and fitness products like the Fitness Flyer, Perfect Abs and Perfect Buns and Thighs. By 1996, 40 percent of the company's revenues were from fitness products. Guthy-Renker partnered with National Media Corp. to help market some of its fitness products, which led to a legal dispute that was settled with undisclosed terms in 1997. Guthy-Renker claimed National Media Corp. aired the infomercial excessively and started selling a knock-off of the original, while National claimed they were not provided with enough Fitness Flyers to meet demand. Guthy-Renker grew to $400 million in revenue in 2001 and $1.5 billion by 2009. In 2011, Guthy-Renker acquired a portion of Paramount Equity Mortgage, a solar energy, insurance and mortgage loans company. Infomercials Guthy-Renker is a direct marketing company that uses infomercials, television ads, direct mail, telemarketing and the internet to sell products directly to the consumer. The firm is known for high-production-value infomercials usually hosted by celebrity endorsers. As of 2010, Guthy-Renker had sold 15 different products. As of 2013, it has nine products under the categories Beauty, Wellness and Services. Some of the products marketed by Guthy-Renker include the Proactiv acne treatment, the Meaningful Beauty cosmetics line endorsed by Cindy Crawford, and the mineral makeup brand Sheer Cover by Leeza Gibbons. It also sells the Chaz Dean's Wen hair line, the Principal Secret beauty brand by Victoria Principal and the Heidi Klum-endorsed, In an Instant, skin care line. Approximately half of Guthy-Renker's revenues come from the Proactiv acne treatment introduced in 1995 and 30 percent of its revenues are international. Some of the other products marketed by Guthy-Renker include the Meaningful Beauty skincare brand by Cindy Crawford, the Sheer Cover brand of mineral makeup, the Wen hair care, and Principal Secret by Victoria Principal. References Further reading Johnson, Emma (October 2012). "As Seen on TV". Success Magazine. External links Official website