Talk:Guillaume de Melun, Prince of Espinoy

Prince of Espinoy or d'Espinoy?

Can you please have a look into Category:Princes of Epinoy there might be some confusing with Category:Princes of d'Espinoy, or do both titles realy belonged to the house of Mélun?--Carolus (talk) 11:53, 26 September 2017 (UTC)

You are referring twice to the same category, so your question doesn't really make sense. Fram (talk) 11:54, 26 September 2017 (UTC)

Ah, you didn't, I see. "d'Espinoy" means "Of Espinoy", "of d'Espinoy" is a duplication which doesn't exist. The category "Princes of d'Espinoy" should be deleted. Fram (talk) 11:56, 26 September 2017 (UTC) Yeah, i know what it means, but is it correct both different titles are owned by the house of Melun? See Lords of d'Espinoy--Carolus (talk) 12:03, 26 September 2017 (UTC)

you did not answer my question, so i kindly ask you to replace the article, the sources are very clear there is nothing wrong with the title. And reply to my question above, otherwise i will delete the whole thing, again you do not show respect for others.--Carolus (talk) 12:11, 26 September 2017 (UTC)

"he sources are very clear there is nothing wrong with the title." Allright, then please show me a source using "lord of d'espinoy" or "prince of d'espinoy". Fram (talk) 12:18, 26 September 2017 (UTC)

There are no "both different titles", "Prince of d'Epinoy" doesn't exist. I have moved it to Draft:Lords of d'Espinoy as the title is totally wrong, and the list of lords is quite wrong as well. Hugues III is the son of Isabeau. This book, old as it is, gives perhaps the best description, better certainly than the sources from 1724 or 1730. Please first work in draft space or in your sandbox to research all these problems before putting these things into the mainspace. Fram (talk) 12:16, 26 September 2017 (UTC) I did not create Prince of Epinoy, but eSpinoy do not hold me respnsible for other peoples errors.--Carolus (talk) 12:25, 26 September 2017 (UTC) You created the "Lords of d'Espinoy" article, and you moved the category: "Carolus moved page Category:Princes of Epinoy to Category:Princes of d'Espinoy: correction of the name". Please don't lie. Fram (talk) 12:30, 26 September 2017 (UTC) Don't insult me, you think i am an idiot? The article was full of references, are you blind?--Carolus (talk) 12:31, 26 September 2017 (UTC)

No, I just think that you are once again getting highly disruptive. Once again, please show me a source using "lord of d'espinoy" or "prince of d'espinoy". Fram (talk) 12:34, 26 September 2017 (UTC) I left a message on the creator of Guillaume de Melun, Prince of Espinoy, if you can accuse him of creating princes that don't exist. Fine, your game.--Carolus (talk) 12:37, 26 September 2017 (UTC) I saw your message there. You don't seem to have understood anything of this conversation, do you? I never said that "Prince of Espinoy" doesn't exist, even though Prince of Épinoy is the most common form of the name. I said that your distinction in two categories was wrong, and that the name of your list and of your category (the one you moved) was totally incorrect, like I said right from the start: ""of d'Espinoy" is a duplication which doesn't exist." It is either Prince of Epinoy, or Prince d'Epinoy, but not the Franglais you invented. Fram (talk) 12:42, 26 September 2017 (UTC) If you are even not able to write my name without mistakes, then my point is proven.--Carolus (talk) 12:52, 26 September 2017 (UTC) Carolus Carolus Carolus. Can you now provide these sources for "Lord of d'Espinoy" or "Prince of d'Espinoy"? Fram (talk) 12:57, 26 September 2017 (UTC) "Gone" but not forgotten...Domdeparis (talk) 13:11, 26 September 2017 (UTC) Commons is much easier, so not realy "gone".--Carolus (talk) 13:44, 26 September 2017 (UTC) Humm looks like you are already getting a few interesting conversations on you talk page there...happy editing! Domdeparis (talk) 14:26, 26 September 2017 (UTC)

If this is in any way a proposal to rename the article, please specify what to and on the basis of what sources. It mostly seems to be a discussion of category names and the redundancy of duplication in "of d'Espinoy" — presumably a typo, and not an issue in this article. --Andreas Philopater (talk) 21:38, 27 September 2017 (UTC)

Have you seen the current categorie? is says Category:Princes of Epinoy, something completely different, The princes of Epinoy and Espinoy are not the same, Espinoy is a village in the former Flanders, a Flemish title. Epinoy is a French title, nothing to do with the history of Flanders. So Why can't Fram just discuss this before he humiliates me and moves the article? --Carolus (talk) 21:44, 27 September 2017 (UTC)

Could you provide a source for that? My impression was that "Épinoy" is simply the modern French spelling of "Espinoy" (hence the spelling of the subject's title in the BNB). Editing to add: "Epinoy" does seem inferior to either "Espinoy" or "Épinoy". --Andreas Philopater (talk) 22:26, 27 September 2017 (UTC)

Agreed with Philopater. Note that most of the above discussion didn't start here, but at my talk page, and was not specifically about this page at all but abot a now-deleted page and category created by Carolus. Fram (talk) 04:31, 28 September 2017 (UTC)

Then there should be a consensus to use 1 simly form, and a discussio, before that. Yes Fram, the discussion started after you delted the article. That is your resposability, you are very impatient. Others do not have the possibility to discuss.--Carolus (talk) 10:59, 28 September 2017 (UTC)

You are not making any sense here. You were moving categories to nonsensical names, creating an article with the same nonsense name (and the usual dubious family tree), and then came to my talk page to start a discussion about the two forms. I then (I.e. after that discussion had started) undid your wrong category move, moved yuor problematic article to draft space, and tried to explain to you what was wrong with your titles, all to no avail. As has been said now quite a few times, there is one princely house, written in two ways, Espinoy and Épinoy. In French, you add "d'" in front of it, in English, you add "of" in front of it. You don't add both together. Epinoy is a bastard form of the two correct spelling formats, and should be avoided. If there is anything else left to discuss, please state clearly what it is you want to know or change. Fram (talk) 09:25, 29 September 2017 (UTC)

Wel anyway, i see there is a list on the fR Wiki, why whould we create then a different one? Certainlky not, if certain people do not have patience or respect. The fact is that on this Wiki, i can fine different writings, that makes no logic at all. Not my problem, i know how to read and speak French, as every serious person from Belgium. Another mistake; it is categorized as being French, but the origin starts in the Southern Netherlands, so the feudal lords of Espinoy belonged to the Flemish nobility, not the French.--Carolus (talk) 11:29, 7 October 2017 (UTC)