Talk:Gudrun Ensslin

Untitled

I have removed categories relating to people who have committed suicide as her cause of death is still highly contested. Somearemoreequal 10:47, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

I've reinserted these categories. Your addition of the Cause of death disputed category is enough. -- Matthead ^discuß!     O       21:45, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Again, having both 'cause of death disputed' and 'deaths by suicide' categories is both contradictory and unsatisfactory. Somearemoreequal 21:54, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Defined through boyfriends

Could somebody back up this claim with sources? Or else it should be removed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.216.122.253 (talk) 22:45, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

Style and Meaning

Some of this sounds very odd, for example:

Gudrun Ensslin defined herself over her boyfriends and so she was also not sure, whether to be more right or left at this time in Tübingen, where both studied.

I wonder if over is an inappropriate translation of German über, which should be translated here as via, through.

The reference to stereotypical good girl sounds odd. Norvo 03:22, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

pornographic film or not?

Comment to: when Ensslin participated in a 'somewhat pornographic, experimental film' entitled Das Abonnement (The Subscription). The word pornographic is IMHO wrong, see discussion in the german WP under "Filmauftritt: Das Abonnement" [1] (in German). Krakatau from de.wp --77.128.0.153 15:19, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Additional: a 'somewhat pornographic, experimental film' is Ensslins own comment to this film. But it was definitly no pornographic film. I found: Allerdings beging sie [Gudrun Ensslin - Krakatau] gleich noch einen weiteren Tabubruch, als sie in einem Kurzfilm mitwirkte, den sie selbst "etwas pornographisch" nannte. Das war freilich eher eine schüchterne Kühnheit als eine zutreffende Bezeichnung. Denn entgegen allen Gerüchten ist "Das Abonnement" kein "Porno", sondern ein experimenteller Kurzfilm in Schwarz-Weiß, wie ihn Absolventen der Filmhochschule damals drehten. Der Regisseur war ein junger Iraner, und neben Gudrun Ensslin wirkte der Schauspieler Lienhart Brunner mit, der 1968 zum Star von Handkes "Publikumsbeschimpfung" wurde. Dem Genre nach war es ein absurder Film: Ein junges, nacktes Paar liegt im Bett und tut nichts weiter als sich zu langweilen, keusch zu liebkosen, aufs Klo zu gehen, zu essen und rohe Eier zu trinken, während durch den Schlitz der Wohnungstür immer mehr Zeitungen und Briefe fallen, bis das Zimmer überflutet ist. (Gerd Koenen: Vesper, Ensslin, Baader. Urszenen des deutschen Terrorismus. Fischer Verlag, Frankfurt am Main 2005, ISBN 3-596-15691-2, S. 128) Krakatau from de.wp -- 77.128.26.159 (talk) 03:24, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

"Freedom Fighters"

The articles calls them a 'freedom fighting' group? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.19.226.165 (talk) 10:39, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

time of the RAF

There should be perhaps more on her life after the Frankfurt arson case, on the other hand a lot of it is already dealt with in the "RAF" entry.--Radh (talk) 23:08, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Is this really neutral

Parts of this article read like a hatchet job. For instance, "...a claim strongly denied by the German governments former and present.[15] The exhaustive study of the RAF by Stefan Aust (revised in 2009 as "Baader-Meinhof: the inside story of the RAF") is categorical in finding the deaths suicides." What does 'strongly denied' mean other than that they deny it. Does the fact that Sefan Aust made an 'exhaustive' study and subsequently reached a 'categorical' conclusion mean much more than he studied the case and concluded that they were suicides. I doesn't lend balance to the article to couch the evidence or claims on one side of the argument in these terms while using weaker terms to present the other side of the argument. After all, the only survivor, and only acknowledged witness to the events as they happened, Irmgard Möller, apparently is equally 'categorical' in her denial that they were suicides. She might be a liar but then so might be the authorities. Couldn't her own study of the events also be described as 'exhaustive' for she had access to key material - the event itself - which Sefan Aust did not. The author appears to intend the reader to reach a particular conclusion when reading the article and has phrased this section in such a way as to help them along in that direction. I have no idea what actually happened. I am just commenting on the non neutral style. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.187.233.172 (talk) 00:20, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

I agree with this comment. Some sections of the article are heavily one sided. For instance, "The exhaustive study of the RAF by Stefan Aust (revised in 2009 as "Baader-Meinhof: the inside story of the RAF") is categorical in finding the deaths suicides" The 'exhaustive' study and the 'categorical' finding is meant to imply that this view can be the only view. I don't pretend to know what happened but I am sure that Sefan Aust doesn't either. The one known witness to the events has contradicted his conclusions. By all means lay out such evidence as there is but let's avoid the emotive and misleading adjectives. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.187.233.172 (talk) 09:23, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

Wrong reference

Die Reise is the book by Bernhard Vesper, not by his father. I have deleted the phrase mentioning it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aloist (talk • contribs) 07:20, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

Volontaristic anarchist beliefs

This page currently says she is responsible for Baader's voluntaristic anarchist beliefs, there is no source. I am skeptical, or at least the use of terms is off. I find it hard to believe that any member of the RAF voluntarist. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.133.33.83 (talk) 09:32, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

Question

The BBC documentary "Baader-Meinhof: In Love with Terror", claims that she is the grandaughter of the grandaughter of Hegel, is it true? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 191.54.36.250 (talk) 00:43, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

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