Talk:Guardian-class patrol boat

Information Table

The information table has the wrong figures for Draft. The draft is 2.5 meters, not 2.5 feet. For reference, the previous class (Pacific Patrol Boat) was smaller & had a draft of 1.8 meters. https://www.austal.com/ships/pacific-patrol-boat-guardian-class 144.139.103.173 (talk) 04:19, 13 June 2018 (UTC)

Displacement...

I looked for references that specified the displacement of the vessels -- and couldn't find any... Geo Swan (talk) 07:31, 19 July 2018 (UTC)

Not Australian vessels...

Someone put the article into the category Australian patrol vessels. Okay, Australia is building them, but they will be commissioned into forces of the receipient nations. Which I believe makes this category inappropriate. Geo Swan (talk) 07:31, 19 July 2018 (UTC)

13 nations, or 14... 21 vessels, or 22...

A recent article says:

"The vessel is the first of 22 guardian class patrol boats which were built for the pacific patrol boat (PPB) project, of which PNG is the first of 14 Pacific island nations to have benefitted."

14 nations? I thought it was 12 Pacific Forum nations, plus Timor-Leste? I thought it was going to be 21 vessels... Has a new country signed on? Geo Swan (talk) 05:49, 5 February 2019 (UTC)

• Michael Arnold (2019-02-05). "PNCFG vessel named after Diro". Fiji Post Courier. Retrieved 2019-02-05. Brig-Gen Diro, who was present for the commissioning of the HMPNGS Ted Diro last Friday, along with Major General Gilbert Toropo (current PNGDF commander) saluted the gesture in what both men described as another illustration of the enduring friendship between PNG and Australia. {{cite news}}: Unknown parameter |deadurl= ignored (|url-status= suggested) (help)

Unidentified Guardian class patrol boat

I was able to get a (not very good) image of what I presume to be a Guardian-class patrol boat, but I'm unable to identify it, the hull number 05 does not seem to line up with any of the so-far launches. If anybody can identify the boat, I will nominate the image for renaming. Calistemon (talk) 14:35, 15 September 2019 (UTC)

My guess would be that it would be the sixth row of the table. The RSIPV Lata (03) has been decommissioned and expected to be replaced by the end of the year. The conspicuous "Police" branding made me look at that one in particular. Solomon Islands 03 is retiring, they still have 04, so 05 for the new one makes sense. --Scott Davis ^Talk 11:50, 18 September 2019 (UTC)

@ScottDavis: If correct, an announcement should come out soon. I will keep checking and see if I get another opportunity for a better image. Calistemon (talk) 22:43, 18 September 2019 (UTC)

@ScottDavis: You were right, Solomon Islands it is, see flag on File:Solomon Islands Guardian class patrol boat at Austal shipyards in Henderson, Western Australia, September 2019.jpg, which I took yesterday. The flag is actually visible at the old image, too, now that I know that it is there. Calistemon (talk) 23:08, 30 September 2019 (UTC)

After a lengthy absence I dropped by at Henderson again and came across another Guardian-class patrol boat. The ship in the background is the Bajamar Express, a trimaran ferries under construction for Fred. Olsen Express, the patrol boat on the right must be the HMPNGS Ted Diro who seems to have been there now for a rather long time unless it left and came back since my last visit. The one on the left I'm unsure about. Difficult to see here as I only had my phone with me, no camera, but there is a big blue and a little yellow stripe on the hull of the boat. Anybody able to identify this Guardian-class patrol boat? Calistemon (talk) 13:29, 14 February 2020 (UTC)

Is the big blue stripe a fairly light shade? I'd guess you have found PSS Remeliik II, due for delivery to Palau in June. PSS Kedam has the stripes in shadow close to the wharf. Euatel is white, but has the sun shining on the stripes. --Scott Davis ^Talk 14:31, 15 February 2020 (UTC)

Thank you, yes, the colors would match also the blue seemed a litle darker. It should be there for a little while still, hopefully I can get back and get a better shot. Calistemon (talk) 00:41, 16 February 2020 (UTC)

Hull numbers

It appears, according to this press release, that the RFNS Savenaca also carries the hull number 401, just like HMPNGS Ted Diro. When I took the above photo last month I thought the boat on the right was the Ted Diro, but looks like it was actually the RFNS Savenaca, who carries the same hull number. Am I seeing this correct? If yes, I will have to re-categorise the image on commons. Calistemon (talk) 09:31, 7 March 2020 (UTC)

Call for discussion on date sorting

Personally, I prefer yyyy-mm-dd dates, in references and tables. I often find well-intentioned contributors rewriting those dates into the absurd 19th Century Monthname dd, yyyy style. When queried they claim style guides recommend this style over yyyy-mm-dd. Sadly, they routinely overlook the passages in date related wikidocuments that call for contributors to refrain from unnecessarily rewriting dates and those wikidocuments explicitly endorse using yyyy-mm-dd dates where brevity is desirable, explicitly endorsing using yyyy-mm-dd in references and tables.

Yyyy-mm-dd dates sort properly, and they require less cognitive effort to read the most significant part - the year. Plus consistent use of them makes tables more horizontally compact.

In these edits an IP editor replaced the original yyyy-mm-dd dates I used with 19th Century Monthname dd, yyyy style dates, even though 19th Century Monthname dd, yyyy style dates don't sort properly.

I was going to rever the IP editor, when I saw someone else had wrapped {{dts}} around some of the other 19th Century Monthname dd, yyyy style dates. I wasn't familiar with this template, so I looked it up. It parses Monthname dd, yyyy dates, and emits hidden html that the render engine uses to sort yyyy-mm-dd style, while rendering the dates in 19th Century Monthname dd, yyyy style. That is interesting, clever, but I am not going to adopt this template when I start new tables, because I am a big fan of the keep it simple sweetheart principle. Unnecessary complications introduce more ways for things to go wrong.

Because of the cognitive effort factor, and the horizontal brevity factor, I would prefer the table exclusively use yyyy-mm-dd dates. It could be argued that very strict compliance with the recommendation to not unnecessarily rewrite dates into one's favourite format would have seen everyone else obliged to follow my lead, and use yyyy-mm-dd dates in the table.

I am not going to be a dick about this. If there is overwhelming push to use 19th Century Monthname dd, yyyy style dates, I'll yield.

But please, no one should think policy calls for yyyy-mm-dd dates, in references, or tables, to be rewritten. It doesn't. Geo Swan (talk) 00:02, 17 April 2020 (UTC)

•  Done Geo Swan (talk) 19:01, 22 July 2020 (UTC)

• Why is an article on ships built and operated by countries who typically use DD-MM-YY dating using a date style largely limited to the US? This doesn't make sense. Nick-D (talk) 11:02, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
  • This is a sortable table, and YYYY-MM-DD sorts properly, while sorting on DD-MM-YYYY dates is completely worthless. Geo Swan (talk) 16:57, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

This article, like most other articles about Australian topics, is tagged with {[tl|use DMY dates}}. Almost all Australian articles display dates in that format (for example 27 August 2020), even in tables. The {{dts}} template appears to address the sorting issue on 32,000 other pages, so no reason it couldn't fix this one too. --Scott Davis ^Talk 14:23, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

Should the table have a retirement date?

I put one in, when I created the table.

I agree with most of the changes in this edit, except its removal of the retirement field. These vessels were designed with a 25 year operational life. Their retirement is a certainty. And one of the ships of the previous class ran aground, and had to be written off, before she reached her maximum life.

So, I think the column should be restored. Geo Swan (talk) 15:26, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

•  Done Geo Swan (talk) 19:01, 22 July 2020 (UTC)

Image changes

I have changed the image in the infobox to one of three Guardian-class patrol boats together, taken today, something I haven't seen before. I also have added an image for the second Tongan vessel, presuming P302 to be that, also I have no reliable prove of that at this point. Feel free to revert both moves if you don't agree with me, I won't be offended. Calistemon (talk) 13:45, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

New Vanuatu boat

I got quite a large number of images for the new Vanuatu boat today but can't find any source for an official name yet so I have only uploaded one image to Commons yet. If somebody can provide a name and source I will rename the image, create a new category and upload some more images to Commons. Calistemon (talk) 12:49, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

• According to marine traffic, it is the RVS Takuare. Calistemon (talk) 01:17, 28 July 2021 (UTC)