Talk:Grimes/Archive 1

Archive 1

Age query

When Grimes appeared on the Lauren Laverne 6music radio show on 3 May 2012, Laverne kept referring to her age as 23, and this went undisputed. This would make her birth year 1989 not 1988. Peaky76 (talk) 11:27, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

speech defect?

Does she have a speech impediment / speech defect? She sings a bit like adeaf person would, is there a source for that anywhere? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.96.198.225 (talk) 01:15, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

No, she doesn't. She can be heard speaking on the 6music Lauren Laverne radio show on 3 May 2012. Peaky76 (talk) 11:26, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

I've been watching a few interviews on Youtube etc. and she definitely has a slight lisp. This is also confirmed by herself on Twitter according to this site: http://www.hipsterrunoff.com/altreport/2012/grimes-lisp-speech-impediment.html I don't see that being relevant with regards to the article, though. ~Fenrisulfr (talk · work) 11:22, 11 September 2012 (UTC)

Influences

Sorry about that, I re-wrote it to more accurately describe why it's essential this be included on Grimes wiki page. Grimes specifically created a music piece of her lesser known and generally difficult to find music and artist influences. It's an original work by Grimes and goes far and beyond the scope of the list of artists she has mentioned in a few interviews. If you could re-add the second edit I made that would be much appreciated. Thanks.

troggo11 (talk) 11:27, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

Lopifalko (talk) 11:27, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

That sounds reasonable. However, your second edit didn't mention that Grimes lesser known / difficult to find original pieces were included (or not to my reading of it at least). Can you rewrite it to include that, and then re-add it? Thanks Lopifalko (talk) 21:51, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

Dubious Claim

Although it is backed up with references, her claim of going nine days without sleep seems dubious to me. Typically people begin to hallucinate after only three days without sleep. Because the claim is so extraordinary, I think it should be deleted unless we find independent confirmation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.192.103.6 (talk) 14:14, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

While I too am highly skeptical, I believe it should remain seeing as it's included as a quote from the subject and not a fact. felt_friend 22:32, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

boat & name

Hi, I was wondering if there's any information on how she got her stage name? I'm also wondering why the part about her living in a boat is so long and how does it relate to her becoming an artist (the part about potatoes)? Thanks! --Turn685 (talk) 07:18, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Grimes picked up her name from artist Ken Grimes who does alien art or something. She seems to just prefer the moniker over using her real name, and it seems like sort of a project name.. she is a talented visual artist as well (does the cover of her albums) etc. The boat part is long because someone who loves Grimes wanted casual wikipedia searchers to find out what a whacky girl Claire really is. That's part of the fun of wikipedia, and I think the potatoes bit is meant to add a bit of extra humor. ;D Izoanefts (talk) 01:11, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

17 August 2014 It's Geidi-Prime mixed together(G-rime), she's a Dune fan — Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.6.166.227 (talk) 14:33, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

Drug References & Wikipedia Editing Complaint

Hi, I'm not a wikipedia user/wikipedian... but I just read an article on a music news webste: http://www.stereogum.com/1699238/grimes-calls-out-the-trolls-putting-pro-drug-statements-on-her-wikipedia/news/

That claims some info on here is the work of a troll/vandal, so thought I'd put that in the talk page so that people are aware of it. In short; The blacked windows, 9-days-without-sleep amphetamine-induced album writing claims need references if they intend on seeming valid. -Grimes fan. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.241.86.130 (talk) 03:52, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

Hi there IP! Hope you don't mind, in light of the recent coverage I wanted to organize this into its own section.

These claims all seem to be pretty well sourced as direct quotes by Grimes (Eg here and here). I respect her not wanting people to construe this time in her life as an overarching approval of drug use, but this is an encyclopedic entry and should not be whitewashed either. Other editors have thoughts? Bienmanchot (talk) 17:16, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

I caught the recent media coverage and wanted to drop my two cents in the hat, for what it's worth. It looks like the information was properly sourced to direct quotes and I agree with Bienmanchot's assessment. Blatant removal of properly sourced information just because someone doesn't like it would be a "whitewashing" or censoring of information. It seems like an important factor of the artistic direction of Visions and should absolutely be mentioned, but we should also do our best to minimize harm and make sure the article frames the information in an accurate context, namely that Grimes isn't a fan of drugs. Sifting through the article's history, a user named Alicemusic (possibly Grimes herself) repeatedly removed this quote and other information back in January (here). Looking at the way this information was presented back in January, it seems pretty neutral to me and I don't believe it makes it seem like "it looks like i think amphetamines are cool," per Grimes' complaint. Fezmar9 (talk) 20:16, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

Noticed this through media blurbs. The content explains the connection to the process of making the album, not as some general endorsement with regards to drugs. Btw, that's an excellent reason not to attempt summaries saying she "took drugs". You "do drugs" as a recreational activity, and this was clearly something else. So specifying that it was amphetamines is very appropriate.

Let's just try to keep the whole meta-debate about the article to a minimum as per WP:Recentism and WP:UNDUE. Debate and fierce condemnations[1] aside, this is unlikely to have any lasting notability.

Peter ^Isotalo 10:08, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

In any event, the direct quote was not very generous with the content. I removed the excessive quoting from the paragraph while keeping an effective paraphrase. Please ping me if you think it can be improved. czar ♔ 20:54, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

Carson Daly show

I first saw her work back in June of 2014 o Carson's late night show. Absolutley fantastic. However, How come I cannot find the videos of that performance anywhere? It was at the El Rey theatre and is by far her best live work to date. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.31.237.251 (talk) 06:39, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

Requested move 30 October 2015

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: NOT MOVED SilkTork ^{✔Tea time} 18:47, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

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Grimes (musician) → Grimes (singer) – More descriptive disambiguator, since Grimes is first and foremost known as a singer; following in suit of articles that have shifted from "(musician)" to "(singer)" in recent memory. WikiRedactor (talk) 02:38, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

 Disagree. Examples? Were those cases in fact primarily singers? Grimes sings, plays instruments, programs electronic gadgets, produces, etc. She is not even "first and foremost" a singer when she's performing live (by which I mean she also plays keyboards and controls the music by pushing buttons); if anything, she's a singer/songwriter/musician. I'd say "musician" is a fair descriptor. - dcljr (talk) 02:52, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

Oppose - In addition to playing a variety of instruments, Grimes is recognized as a notable songwriter and producer (among other things). "Singer" would be too limiting for the page title. SteveStrummer (talk) 03:33, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

Oppose – I think (singer) would only make sense if that were all she did. A more comprehensive disambiguator is fine for this article. —Torchiest ^talk_edits 17:05, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

• Oppose. The (musician) disambiguator can include various aspects of musical production, including singing, songwriting, etc. No reason to restrict the definition of the topic. sst✈^discuss 09:14, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

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Neuroscience?

This recent interview draws questions into what she was actually enrolled in at McGill: [2]

Audie Cornish: I read that you actually studied neuroscience in college? Or just the sciences generally? Grimes: Actually, I was in a program at McGill called Electroacoustics, where we studied a lot of how the brain interacts with music. So by the time I actually started making music, I kind of had an understanding of frequencies and kind of how the brain responds to things, which I think really helped me as a producer: Even though I had no experience playing instruments and stuff, I kind of had a basic understanding of engineering.

I tried to track this program down at McGill, and it seems to be offered by their School of Music [3] at least as far back as 2011. It's possible she took these courses as an elective to her main studies, or that she had a minor in Music. One of the sources states she originally attended McGill to study "Russian literature". (The other source [4] seems to have been a live broadcast, and I can't get an archive of it). I'm hesitant to simply delete "neuroscience" and replace with "electroacoustics", as these are very different yet overlapping things and it's still possible she was enrolled in a neuroscience program but chose to emphasize her electroacoustic classes for some reason.  Adrian^[232] 02:50, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

I just added a sentence to her early life section stating that she attended the university. There seems to be a lot of confusing information floating around about what she studied there, which is apparently why it was removed from the page, which is just stupid—it doesn't matter of she studied Russian, astrophysics, or underwater basket weaving—the fact remains that she was a student there from 2006–2008, which belongs in an encyclopedic article. --Drown Soda (talk)

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Drugs

Some information on the page Grimes (musician) is deleted from time to time. This applies to information about [drugs]. However, there are no significant reasons for this removal. I ask you not to delete information about the attitude of Claire Boucher to drugs. LllKSTlll (talk) 14:44, 28 June 2017 (UTC)

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Gendered categories

Sorry if I am not following appropriate Wiki procedure for bringing this up, I almost never participate in talk pages or edits, but Grimes shouldn't be included in the various "woman" categories she's currently in. She has described herself as "genderless," and here's a recent tweet from her verified account explicitly stating that she is uncomfortable with being identified as a woman: https://twitter.com/Grimezsz/status/971913425193394177

99.129.132.19 (talk) 05:25, 22 April 2018 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Grimes (musician)

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Grimes (musician)'s orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "allmusic1":

• From Marilyn Manson: Ankeny, Jason. "Marilyn Manson – Biography & History". AllMusic. All Media Network. Archived from the original on April 26, 2015. Retrieved 2017-10-25. {{cite web}}: Unknown parameter |deadurl= ignored (|url-status= suggested) (help)
• From Chris Isaak: Stephen Thomas Erlewine (1956-06-26). "Chris Isaak | Biography & History". AllMusic. Retrieved 2016-03-12.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 20:38, 5 August 2018 (UTC)

List of influences

The list of influences is unnecessarily huge. I think we should reduce it to just a few examples. BeŻet (talk) 15:41, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

I agree. It should be trimmed to the artists/bands she and reliable sources have considered a notable influence on her/her work. Lapadite (talk) 05:05, 29 August 2018 (UTC)

Yes my thoughts exactly it is a bit too long & much A.jerie 09:56, 30 January 2019 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ana jerie (talk • contribs)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Grimes Zane Lowe.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 17:52, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

Drug Use

Despite personal objections from the person this article is in reference to, there seems to be a concerted effort by either the musician herself or her fanbase to remove mentions of hard drug use from her biography. It is documented in an interview that heavy amphetamine usage helped in creating the album "Visions". There are probably plenty of people who have wikipedia articles written about them that contain things that they "do not want to be part of the narrative", however, this is in violation of the spirit of Wikipedia, particularly in my opinion Wikipedia:Conflict of Interest and to a lesser extent Wikipedia:Editing_Your_Own_Page. The best way to control one’s own narrative is to not say objectionable things to the media in the first place.

It seems that even this talk pages edit history can be shown to have been edited to remove queries like this before. Who is benefiting from the obfuscation of information on this Wiki page? Certainly not the Wikipedia readers or community. It has been concluded that removal of this information is most likely whitewashing back in 2014. So please stop whitewashing the article in order to appease the target of the article. It seems very against the spirit of Wiki. For clarification: Blatant removal of properly sourced information just because someone doesn't like it would be a "whitewashing" or censoring of information.

Melonsquid (talk) 06:24, 5 May 2020 (UTC)

Pronunciation

Is her last name pronounced (/ˈbaʊtʃər/ or /buːˈʃeɪ/? Those are both pretty common pronunciations of the last name Boucher. The pronunciation and a citation for it should be added. Yoleaux (talk) 02:46, 6 May 2020 (UTC)

I believe it to be the latter, since she has French-Canadian roots. Can anyone find a source pronouncing it?

Melonsquid (talk) 07:07, 6 May 2020 (UTC)

Elon Musk

Is it possible to remove the partner of Elon Musk from page. Insider source not an article confirms this information is not correct. According to source they have not been in a relationship and Grimes is faking a pregnancy to be in the media. Interstellar20 (talk) 14:50, 19 March 2020 (UTC)

No, it is not.NJZombie (talk) 19:40, 19 March 2020 (UTC)

Pretty sure its not fake buddy 2600:8801:84:2400:79BA:851B:D78D:C624 (talk) 22:15, 6 May 2020 (UTC)

Interstellar20 was indefinitedly blocked for hoaxing/BLP violations on 28 March 2020. - SummerPhD^v2.0 01:57, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

Do we know anything about her current stance on religion?

Sarsath3 (talk) 22:42, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

Name change to "c"

The recent spate of name change edits resulted in page protection after a claim from Conifer in their reverting summary that even the interview where she claims to have changed her name doesn't use "c", referring to the New York Times interview; the interview clearly states "Talking to the artist, who now goes by 'c' (a reference to the speed of light), feels a bit like drinking from a fire hose of science fiction prophecy."

The news has spread to many other publications, and is obviously something that needs to be discussed and/or addressed here.

Currently the article has a referenced "Other names" of "c" in the infobox, although that isn't discussed in the article body other than a single line in "Personal life" which states she's known in "her personal life" as "c" and references another publication. The infobox should be summarizing a proper discussion of the sources available or have nothing to say about the use of "c", and a BLP should not be so confused about the subject's name.

Let's solve this. Fred Gandt · talk · contribs 21:53, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

I think the record is clear – the New York Times interview refers to her by the name "c" exactly once, in that quote you reference. It's the same thing from USA Today and Alternative Press. Her own twitter still shows as "Grimes" and that she pulled this same stunt at least twice before. I'd be open to adding some more information about her flirtation with changing her name under the "Personal life" section, but unless reliable sources start referring to her as "c", the article should stick with "Grimes". Conifer (talk) 02:03, 1 November 2020 (UTC)

I'm with you 100% that the article at this point should remain named "Grimes", as she is by far best known as that, but we absolutely MUST expand on why the infobox even mentions "c" as another name or (re)move that mention. By the looks of your several links, more info about her "flirtations" should be added to give body content for the infobox to summarise if at all. Currently the article flirts with the suggestion that "c" might be something she might have mentioned to someone sometime; either she did or she didn't. If she did, we should clarify the situation. If most of the noise is generated by an over enthusiastic media trying to grab clicks, and has no real weight of its own, the whole "c" thing should just be scrapped. BLPs need to be less flirtatious with the facts, whatever they may be.

Currently (as I said before) the only mentions are in the infobox with a its own reference and nothing about that summary in the body (not correct procedure), and one mention in "personal life" that she's known as "c" in her personal life, with a completely different reference. If she's known to the wider world as "c", we should have evidence of that, not hearsay; if she's only known as "c" by a select few close to her personally, we can mention it with refs, fair enough, but that would hardly belong in the infobox.

If it wasn't past 3:20am I'd delve into the links you've provided and start drafting something if there's something to draft, but will instead return much later today after sleeping. Fred Gandt · talk · contribs 03:30, 1 November 2020 (UTC)

Good decision. You should not neglect your sleep for Wikipedia. Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 12:00, 1 November 2020 (UTC)

I do not neglect my sleep at all :D Fred Gandt · talk · contribs 13:55, 1 November 2020 (UTC)

Pronouns

There were multiple reverted changes of pronouns from "she" to "they" lately. This is most probably a reaction to recent Elon Musk's tweet. The only source to gender and pronouns I've found is a reference to a deleted tweet stating

I vibe in a gender neutral space so I'm kinda impartial to pronouns for myself. Don't have a preferred so much but I wish I didn't have to be categorized as female constantly. Everything I ever hear about Grimes is super gendered and it's always really made me uncomfortable.

I was not able to locate the actual tweet in the Internet Archive backup. The quoted tweet is from 2015, it was deleted by Grimes and was not stating the preferred pronoun.

Please don't change the pronouns in the article unless there is a reliable source for this. The mainstream media is using pronoun "she".Msm (talk) 15:47, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

References

at the beginning of the article it says she idk how to change it but i did put they/them for everything else Moishieiscute (talk) 18:36, 11 May 2021 (UTC)

Photos

Somebody can change the principal photo for one more recent? That photo is from a lot of years and she doesn't look like that anymore. Rosado123456 (talk) 19:05, 14 January 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: If you can find a more recent image with a licence suitable for Wikimedia Commons, be my guest. But for now, we don't have any recent pictures that could work. As you can see in the Commons category for Grimes, the most recent is from 2016 (and is already used in a section), while the poster is most likely going to be deleted as some point. Bizarre Bizarre^{Talk modern to me} 03:43, 24 May 2021 (UTC)

Feminist?

At no point in the article is any mention of feminism or views on feminism ever mentioned, yet Grimes is listed as feminist in the categories? If no one can provide any sources, I think those categories should be removed. 01:47, 6 June 2021 (UTC) Elishop (talk)

It's mentioned both in the Visions and Art Angels sections, though. Here are the quotes from the article with their sources included.

Visions:

"In April 2013, Boucher posted a written statement addressing her experience as a female musician in an industry rife with sexism and expressed disappointment that her feminist stance was often interpreted as anti-male."

Art Angels (emphasis mine):

"Jessica Hopper of Pitchfork described Art Angels as "evidence of Boucher's labor and an articulation of a pop vision that is incontrovertibly hers... an epic holiday buffet of tendentious feminist fuck-off, with second helpings for anonymous commenters and music industry blood-suckers."

In the article's current form, the category is accurate and should stay. Bizarre Bizarre^{Talk modern to me} 19:38, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

References

Requested move 17 March 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. I'm not thrilled by the quality of most of the arguments here, but there is a huge majority of support !votes, and I find User:UpdateNerd's argument the most convincing. Thus, I am going ahead with the move. (closed by non-admin page mover) Skarmory (talk • contribs) 02:40, 25 March 2022 (UTC)

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• Grimes (musician) → Grimes
• Grimes → Grimes (disambiguation)

– The musician is the likely Primary Topic. Luke Grimes is the next-most likely sought-after topic, but its unlikely people are namesearching his last name. Rick Grimes, a fictional character, is of very little enduring notability (at least once they stop greenlighting The Walking Dead seasons of progressively worse quality). Notable place names, e.g. Grimes County, Texas, are also unlikely targets, imo. Grimes the musician accounts for approximately half of page views among possible targets. Selected page views. mass views Schierbecker (talk) 02:43, 17 March 2022 (UTC)

• Support. This is the only case in which a qualifier isn't needed to explicate the subject being referred to. The disambiguation page would be the logical place to look for lesser-known topics that use the word as part of their name. UpdateNerd (talk) 04:48, 17 March 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose. For a topic to be the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC, it must be more likely than all the other topics combined more likely than all the other topics combined. That is not the case here, due to the popularity of the name; we have hundred of articles that could be reasonable referred to, many of which have high reader counts, some of which the nominator has listed, and others that they haven't, such as Cameron Grimes, Jedward, Camryn Grimes, and Darren Grimes. BilledMammal (talk) 11:01, 17 March 2022 (UTC)

  The musician actually is more likely than all the other topics combined, and by a very big margin [5]. The question here is, given that the musician is currently the overwhelming primary topic with respect to usage, is she also the primary topic with respect to long-term significance? – Uanfala (talk) 14:30, 17 March 2022 (UTC)

• Support. There are many people with the surname Grimes but it's safe to say Claire Boucher is the primary topic for someone with a single-word name "Grimes". 114.125.93.8 (talk) 22:45, 17 March 2022 (UTC)
• Support per nom.--Ortizesp (talk) 05:25, 18 March 2022 (UTC)
• Support Per nom, in this case nearly everything else is a WP:PTM. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 11:23, 18 March 2022 (UTC)
• Support per nomination. Bizarre Bizarre^{Talk modern to me} 20:47, 18 March 2022 (UTC)
• Oppose no benefit to readers. In ictu oculi (talk) 13:35, 19 March 2022 (UTC)
• Support it's recentism, and will probably revert to a DAB in the fullness of time. But right now, the celebrity actually is the primary topic. User:力 (powera, π, ν) 18:16, 19 March 2022 (UTC)
• Support. I agree there's a primary topic by usage. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 20:12, 20 March 2022 (UTC)
• Support as I agree that this is the primary topic by usage. Aoba47 (talk) 12:59, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

Support. As others said, there's a primary topic by usage. Nikscholarly20 (talk) 14:58, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Both sources for her relationship with Chelsea Manning cite anonymous sources?

I had seen the various articles about Grimes' alleged relationship with whistleblower Chelsea Manning pop up earlier this year but none of them ever provided any real evidence and exclusively cited anonymous sources. I was pretty surprised to see the relationship mentioned on the Grimes article, wouldn't those sources be considered unreliable by Wikipedia's standards? Jiaenx (talk) 01:50, 19 September 2022 (UTC)

Her name

Why does the article keep calling her Boucher instead of Grimes? I realize it's her born name, but is it the name she goes by? 66.205.135.119 (talk) 18:50, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

Also, it's done inconsistently. Phifty (talk) 02:42, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

The article should follow the Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Biography#Subsequent use guidelines, and not inconsistently switch back and forth between her mononym stage name "Grimes" and her birth surname "Boucher", even if some of the events predate her use of that stage name (see Lady Gaga and Elton John for some examples) Zzyzx11 (talk) 20:17, 22 April 2023 (UTC)