Talk:Greater Europe

Unsubstantiated neologism

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL --dab (𒁳) 16:37, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Weird

What a fantastically weird concept. So, Israel and Central Asia are included into Greater Europe, while European colonies like the US or Argentina aren't? --217.172.29.4 (talk) 18:36, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Problems with map

There are several problems with the map shown here:

• Since when does geographical Europe include the whole of the Asian parts of Rusia, as well as all the other countries from the fomer Soviet Union, well beyond the Ural Mountains or the Caucasus Mountains?!?
• Since when European Russia is only included in the fuzzy concept of Greater Europe?!?
• Since when does geographical Europe include the whole of the Asian parts of Turkey (Anatolia)?!?
• Since when does geographical Europe include the whole of Israel (as a single area isolated in the Middle East)?!?
• Since when does geographical Europe include the whole of Greenland?!?

This map is just plain wrong and POV. I have already tagged it as factually inaccurate at the Commons. It should be deleted. The Ogre (talk) 16:44, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

While I agree that the map has severe problems, some of it looks accurate. It's not about Europe as a geographical entity, but about this indeed fuzzy concept of Greater Europe as a socio-political entity. When Yeltsin and Putin speak about Greater Europe, they seem to include Russia - all of it. Similarly, those who discuss Turkey in the context of a Greater Europe mean all of it. Israel is probably included because it counts as European in such contexts as the Eurovision Song Contest or the UEFA football association (the latter includes all parts of the former Soviet Union and is probably closest to what the map shows - but I doubt that's an appropriate definition of Greater Europe). I believe I once saw Berlusconi mentioning it as part of Greater Europe, too. Greenland is probably included due to its strong political ties to Denmark - though I wonder whether then the French overseas departements shouldn't also be a part of Greater Europe. Jordan is also included on the map, and that's just plain wrong by any of the definitions of Greater Europe I've seen.

The main problem is that there's no good definition of Greater Europe and thus nothing on which to base this map. Huon (talk) 17:19, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Is that why Switzerland is colored as "Later Members" despite not being a Member at all? 188.60.196.208 (talk) 17:14, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

Ok, but then the map should not be named Worldmapeurope, implying it is the location of Europe in the world - notice that some user tried to used in the Template:Regions of the world. It should be named, if a map for this fuzzy concept does even have to exist, Greater_Europe. The Ogre (talk) 17:26, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

This map shouldn't be renamed, it should be obliterated (being honest). It includes Kazakhstan, Kyrgystan, and other 'stans'. Is anyone seriously defending that these countries beyond the Ural mountains are a part of any vision of European culture? Since when? Come on ppl, let's be honest here.

I fully acknowledge that many of these countries are influenced, to a certain degree, by the wider Western world/culture. But that doesn't make these countries in particular a part of any kind of 'Greater Europe'. Being quite honest: I'm not sure of the criteria the author used (his logic is beyond my ability to understand), but if we include all the countries of the map we must also include Australia, New Zeland, the whole of the Americas, India, South Korean and Japan, etc. And many of these areas have a way greater afinity and connection to European culture than many countries of the map. The map is OR and it is simply wrong. It should be deleted with extreme prejudice. Flamarande (talk) 18:25, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

I agree, but suggest to await the results for this article's deletion discussion and to nominate the map afterwards. Huon (talk) 18:51, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Nominating the map for deletion may be a problem. The Commons does not have an OR or POV policy. Basically the only reasons to delete media files are copyright issues or maintenance reasons (duplicate files, etc.). We could try, though. At this moment, however, the said map only links to this article in the entire wiki-universe. That could change in a moments notice, of course, because some user will always push his pov or something. The Ogre (talk) 20:15, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

OK, I was not aware of Commons' deletion policy. But as long as we keep this faulty map off any serious articles, it can do little harm. Huon (talk) 21:31, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

I've tried to do so. The Ogre (talk) 23:03, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

There is a phrase in the lead: "with strong political, economic, or cultural links to Europe". The citation of this phrase is about a decision of Coca-Cola from 2000. 1. Does a decision of an arbitrary company qualify as a citation? 2. Does the decision of this arbitrary company prove that there are countries with strong political, economic, or cultural links to Europe?

A Coca-cola decision as a citation to claim there are countries with strong political, economic, or cultural links to Europe?

There is a phrase in the lead: "with strong political, economic, or cultural links to Europe". The citation of this phrase is about a decision of Coca-Cola from 2000.

1. Does a decision of an arbitrary company qualify as a citation?

2. Does the decision of this arbitrary company prove that there are countries with strong political, economic, or cultural links to Europe? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Meurglys8 (talk • contribs) 11:46, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

If you have a question, please formulate it here

The war has cancelled European (German and French) ideas of Eurasian integration. Xx236 (talk) 07:20, 22 November 2022 (UTC)

This article is not a list of conflicts in Europe. Archives908 (talk) 17:37, 22 November 2022 (UTC)

Let's start with the question - what is the subject of this article. Is it enlargement of the EU or Russian empire? One section contains a list of organisations without explanation, should be removed, the other one is unsourced so it should be removed.Xx236 (talk) 08:40, 25 November 2022 (UTC)

2008 results " Keep - though there is disagreement on what Greater Europe means; perhaps this debate is what the article should be about if the reliable sources talk about the subject but cannot agree on what it is". We are exactly in the same place after 14 years. Xx236 (talk) 09:31, 25 November 2022 (UTC)

Eastern Partnership is divided

Ukraine, Moldova and Georgia apply for EU membership, the other two 'partners' fight a war. https://www.europarl.europa.eu/thinktank/pl/document/EPRS_IDA(2022)730340 Xx236 (talk) 07:43, 22 November 2022 (UTC)

Economic integration in greater Europe

The section is unsourced. It describes only German-Russian cooperation which included NS and NS2 (not mentioned). The integration has been destroied by the war. Germany and Russia is not Greater Europe. Xx236 (talk) 08:08, 22 November 2022 (UTC)

Area from Lisbon to Vladivostok with all European and CIS countries

This is unsoured OR. Please quote a source proving connections in such region or remove the map. Xx236 (talk) 11:53, 25 November 2022 (UTC)

No consesus to include unsourced speculations either

Please quote your sources, cn does not replace a source. This article is written from German-Russian NS2-type cooperation POV, at least partially cancelled by Russian invasion. France and Spain cooperate rather with Northern Africa, than Russia, so their maps and ideas are different. Xx236 (talk) 07:49, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

Any material that needs an inline citation but does not have one may be removed.

WP:Verifiability Xx236 (talk) 07:57, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

Statements consisting only of original research should be removed.Xx236 (talk) 08:07, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

Coca Cola is American

"The Coca-Cola Company is an American multinational beverage corporation", reference 2 is rather about US-European economy. Xx236 (talk) 08:08, 29 November 2022 (UTC)