Talk:Grand Theatre, Blackpool

I'm going to change this page as the building has been burnt down, it was burnt down between Monday 27th July and Tuesday 28th July

And I'm removing that "information" because there are no Google News results for "Blackpool Grand Theatre fire" and because their website does not make any notice of the supposed event. PS: Learn to spell- the only reason I found this was because I searched for "beleive" (misspelled). Lithoderm 01:27, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Just to confirm that the theatre has not burnt down, nor has there been a fire there. There was a fire in Blackpool that night, but it was in a totally different area of the town at the Grand Holiday Apartments in South Shore which Magicalmysteryride is mistaking this for. ♦Tangerines♦·Talk 21:11, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved to Grand Theatre, Blackpool; while it could have been styled as a (disambiguation), it could conversationally be quoted in this style, hence its use billinghurst sDrewth 14:40, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

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Blackpool Grand Theatre → Grand Theatre, Blackpool — I don't think that Blackpool is actually part of the name of the theatre. For example, see the official website's "about us" page here:[1]. BelovedFreak 17:40, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

• Comment: Whatever the official name may be isn't all that relevant, see Wikipedia:Article titles for the official policy on this or Wikipedia:official names for a less formal explanation. End even if the current name needs to change, wouldn't Grand Theatre (Blackpool) be a more appropriate format? No vote as yet. Andrewa (talk) 20:59, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Possibly. Looking at Grand Theatre and the search results for "Grand Theatre", there doesn't seem to be much consistency. I hadn't read that essay before, but "Blackpool Grand Theatre" or "Blackpool Grand" (or "the Blackpool Grand" etc.) isn't a common name for it, at least not locally. The "Grand" or the "Grand Theatre" is.--BelovedFreak 21:05, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

• Support The current title is purely original research. The theatre is simply not referred to as Blackpool Grand Theatre. Where the disambiguator is a geographical entity, it is custom to use the comma format rather than parentheses for disambiguation. The guidelines at Wikipedia:Disambiguation state:
  • A disambiguating word or phrase can be added in parentheses. The word or phrase in parentheses should be:
    • the generic class (avoiding proper nouns, as much as possible) that includes the topic, as in Mercury (element), Seal (mammal); or
    • the subject or context to which the topic applies, as in Union (set theory), Inflation (economics).
• They also state:
  • With place-names, if the disambiguating term is a higher-level administrative division, it is often separated using a comma instead of parentheses, as in Windsor, Berkshire.
• Blackpool is a higher-level administration division. Skinsmoke (talk) 23:21, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Comment: About the format of the disambiguator... This article title is not a placename. The proposed disambiguator is a placename, but the article title is not. Comma rather than parentheses format is appropriate when the article title is a placename, which normally means that the disambiguator is a higher level placename too. But where the article title being disambiguated is not a placename but the disambiguator is, it's not clear which format is preferred... perhaps neither is. So for example City Hall (London) but City Hall, Singapore. Andrewa (talk) 09:36, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

• Comment I would agree that the guidance is poorly worded and ambiguous. The usual, but by no means universal practice, for the United Kingdom seems to be to use the comma format. Skinsmoke (talk) 12:17, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
• Support per Skinsmoke. The new name seems appropriate and in accordance with guidance. Cjc13 (talk) 11:20, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
• Support per Skinsmoke, although I'm not so sure about the nominator's suggestion that "Blackpool" is not part of the name. The theatre website uses a mixture of titles like "The Grand Theatre, Blackpool", but it also lists two bodies on most of it's pages - "Blackpool Grand Theatre Trust Limited" and "Blackpool Grand Theatre (Arts & Entertainments) Limited". Green Giant (talk) 00:08, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

You make a good point and I can't be sure from the website of the official name (if there is just one). I would have thought it possible though for the trusts/companies to use "Blackpool" as part of their official names, without it being part of the theatre's official name. I see that the theatre logo has "Blackpool" coming afterwards, and the photographs from over the years show just "Grand Theatre" on the theatre sign. I think that it's hard to be sure just from the website though. Per Andrewa above, I now understand that the official name is not necessarily as relevant as I thought.--BelovedFreak 08:52, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

• Comment - I would also request that the similarly named theatres in the UK should be renamed where appropriate so that we have some uniformity:
  • Grand Theatre Leeds → Grand Theatre, Leeds
  • Grand Theatre (Lancaster) → Grand Theatre, Lancaster
  • Swansea Grand Theatre → Grand Theatre, Swansea
  • Wolverhampton Grand Theatre → Grand Theatre, Wolverhampton

Green Giant (talk) 00:08, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

• Comment That would make sense. Certainly, in common use, people would refer to the Grand Theatre or just the Grand. Skinsmoke (talk) 08:11, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Theatre title

The archived discussion of the theatre's title is an interesting one as it did seem to change during the stewardship of the late Paul Isles. There is a link on the main page to an article on Paul's website that includes numerous progammes from the recent past. The earlier ones had Blackpool Grand Theatre as the title with the later ones having The Grand Theatre as the main title and Blackpool in much smaller print underneath.

I recall Paul's preference as being 'The Grand Theatre, Blackpool' but that this was bound to cause confusion as the website URL uses 'blackpoolgrand' and the trust's title is the Blackpool Grand Theatre trust ltd. Sillybillynana (talk) 19:44, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

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