Talk:Giuseppe Mazzini

Freemason?

While Mazzini was listed in the book 10,000 Famous Freemasons and is sometimes referred to as a former Grand Master of the Grand Orient of Italy, their own website questions whether he was ever a Mason at all. http://www.grandeoriente.it/studi/storia-della-massoneria-in-italia/linfluenza-di-mazzini-nella-massoneria-italiana.aspx ChuckEye (talk) 16:41, 16 March 2013 (UTC)

It questions his Masonic membership, it does not seem to deny it - and if my poor Italian is to be trusted it seems to say that Brdlaugh and Combes thought that Mazzini was a Freemason. However it is hard to see why they wouldn't know who their Grand Master was. JASpencer (talk) 17:06, 16 March 2013 (UTC)

Agreed. I've also had a read through the source quoted by ChuckEye (talk), and it is far from conclusive. It merely illustrates that there are two bodies of opinion. Timothy Titus ^{Talk To TT} 17:51, 16 March 2013 (UTC)

I guess my take was, if someone is compiling a list of 10,000 Masons, including some from countries other than their own, it's quite possible they made a mistake. Whereas if the Grand Lodge doesn't list him, it's more likely that the author of 10,000 Famous Freemasons was mistaken. ChuckEye (talk) 18:44, 16 March 2013 (UTC)

I don't think I would make that assumption even in a masonically stable nation, let alone Italy, where there have been (historically), and still are (today), so many competing Grand Lodges and Grand Orients that historical facts are often misconstrued or misrepresented. Timothy Titus ^{Talk To TT} 19:55, 16 March 2013 (UTC)

Good point. The Grand Orient of Italy also had their records largely destroyed. They are a continuation of the pre-Mussolini Grand Orient but they're not an unbroken continuation. JASpencer (talk) 21:51, 16 March 2013 (UTC)

Mazzini was a famous freemason as all the revolutioners in his time. I don't understand why it is not clear in this articleΑντικαθεστωτικός (talk) 20:46, 9 March 2019 (UTC)

Untitled

Mazzini was a good politician who had a solid clear view of italy and the way he wanted it to be, its hard to find clear information though so some help would be appriated

Giovine vs Giovane

Please don't change giovine in giovane: it's an archaic form which was used at that time. Matteo 10:10, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

'His efforts helped bring about the modern Italian state'

I don't have time to have a go at this right now, but I think this is pretty inaccurate and somewhat opinionated. If one looks at the actual process of the Risorgimento, Mazzini's influence and patriotic ideals have a very, very small part in it, compared to Piedemontese hegemony, and public desires for constitutionalism or opposition to Habsburg rule. D'Azeglio's quote, "We have made Italy, now we have to make Italians" bears witness to the extent to which Mazzinian patriotism had a very limited reach in the formation of modern Italy. His primary contribution, in my opinion at least, is as a mythological figurehead resurrected after the Risorgimento had already taken place to aid a formation of a national conciousness. Capt. Eduardo del Mango (talk) 19:23, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

member of roman triumvirate?!

this is blatantly false...i don't know what he was a member of, if anything, but i know he wasnt a member of the triumvirate, having lived in the 19th century —Preceding unsigned comment added by 147.226.107.216 (talk) 16:10, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

Actually...

He was a member of the brief triumvirate that governed the 'Roman Republic': the Papal States that were left unoccupied when the Pope fled to Gaeta.

--- —Preceding unsigned comment added by IsaacBD (talk • contribs) 23:08, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

Statue

There is a statue of Mazzini in the Central Park New York @ west Dr and 67 st in side the park, could someone add it in the appropriate section in the article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.61.0.84 (talk) 21:38, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

Photos of the bust in Central Park are at https://www.google.com/search?biw=1366&bih=652&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=WT4bWsOlF5Lr_Abfp4vYCg&q=mazzini+central+park&oq=mazzini+central+park&gs_l=psy-ab.3...663392.668882.0.669416.16.16.0.0.0.0.147.1817.6j10.16.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..0.9.1181...0j0i19k1j0i5i30i19k1j0i5i30k1j0i5i10i30k1j0i10i24k1j0i13k1.0.e1doOFqLC0s#imgrc=_ There is also the beautiful monument in Rome's Piazzale Aventino. http://l7.alamy.com/zooms/8beb9d25e9f54bd79f13921a5300914f/monument-giuseppe-mazzini-rome-italy-it-eu-europe-entgpb.jpg http://photos.wikimapia.org/p/00/01/11/54/42_big.jpg Italus (talk) 22:35, 26 November 2017 (UTC)

Mazzini's Letter to the Romans

The following letter was written by Giuseppe Mazzini after the fall of the Roman Republic in July 1849. Mazzini, who is considered by many to be the greatest European political thinker of the 19th century, had been the Chief Minister of the Republic. The complete letter is in pp. 89-90 of the book by Giuseppe Lipparini, Le Pagine della Letteratura Italiana, Vol. XVII (Gli Scrittori dell'Ottocento: i Politici e i Pensatori), Carlo Signorelli Editore, Milano (1926).

The beginning of the letter states: "Brutal force has suppressed your city; but it has not altered or diminished your rights. The Roman Republic lives eternal, inviolable in the suffrage of the free people who proclaimed it, in the spontaneous adherence of all the components of the State, in the faith of the people who have admired our long defense, in the blood of the martyrs who fell for her under our walls."

---

5 luglio 1849

Romani!

La forza brutale ha sottomesso la vostra città; ma non mutato o scemato i vostri diritti. La repubblica romana vive eterna, inviolabile nel suffragio dei liberi che la proclamarono, nella adesione spontanea di tutti gli elementi dello Stato, nella fede dei popoli che hanno ammirato la lunga nostra difesa, nel sangue dei martiri che caddero sotto le nostre mura per essa. Tradiscano a posta loro gl'invasori le loro solenne promesse. Dio non tradisce le sue. Durate costanti e fedeli al voto dell'anima vostra, nella prova alla quale Ei vuoleche per poco voi soggiacciate; e non diffidate dell'avvenire. Brevi sono i sogni della violenza, e infallibile il trionfo d'un popolo che spera, combatte e soffre per la Giustizia e per la santissima Libertà.

Voi deste luminosa testimonianza di coraggio militare; sappiate darla di coraggio civile [...]

Dai municipii esca ripetuta con fermezza tranquilla d'accento la dichiarazione ch'essi aderiscono volontari alla forma repubblicana e all'abolizione del governo temporale del Papa; e che riterranno illegale qualunque governo s'impianti senza l'approvazione liberamente data dal popolo; poi occorrendo si sciolgano. [...] Per le vie, nei teatri, in ogni luogo di convegno, sorga un grido: Fuori il governo dei preti! Libero Voto! [...]

I vostri padri, o Romani, furon grandi non tanto perchè sapevano vincere, quanto perche' non disperavano nei rovesci. In nome di Dio e del popolo siate grande come i vostri padri. Oggi come allora, e più che allora, avete un mondo, il mondo italiano in custodia.

La vostra Assemblea non é spenta, é dispersa. I vostri Triumviri, sospesa per forza di cose la loro pubblica azione, vegliano a scegliere a norma della vostra condotta, il momento opportuno per riconvocarla.Italus (talk) 21:20, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Karl Marx

The "Criticism" and "Ideology" sections repeat the same things about Karl Marx opinion of Mazzini and vice versa. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.171.129.165 (talk) 08:10, 2 November 2016 (UTC)

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this article needs more references

There are numerous paragraphs in the article that do not have any citations whatsoever. Specifically, in the following sections:

• Early years
• Failed insurrections
• Exile in London
• The 1848–49 revolts
• Late activities
• Legacy

Please do not remove the maintenance tag until citations for the above sections have been added. Thanks. —howcheng {chat} 08:20, 20 June 2017 (UTC)

External links modified

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adding to a picture caption

Citizens shot for reading Mazzini's Journal

Edouard Manet 022

On the right is a picture with the caption, "Citizens shot for reading Mazzini Journals." I would like to add the following to the caption: (Compare with Édouard Manet, The Execution of Emperor Maximilian). I don't know how to add this; if another editor agrees that it is a worthwhile addition, then please add it: Maurice Magnus (talk) 01:59, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

Maurice Magnus Replying here because I saw your question at the Teahouse. The paintings are similar (very), yes. But has a WP:RS noticed and commented on that? Otherwise, adding it would seem like WP:OR "fluff" to me. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:57, 18 June 2021 (UTC)

On the general editing question, you just change the "Citizens shot for reading Mazzini Journals" text to the right of "thumb" here: [1]. Hope this helps. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 11:09, 18 June 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for answering the general editing question; I made the edit. I think that your case against doing so applies the rules too rigidly. If I had said that the picture at Giuseppe Mazzini was based on Manet's, then I'd need to cite a reliable source. But I didn't say that; all I said was "Compare." And I didn't do original "research"; I merely looked at the two paintings, as you did, and noted their similarity. If an art historian had written a book noting the similarity (but not including additional information, such as that one painting was based on the other), then I'd see no need to cite the book, because the art historian would have done no more than you or I did in looking at the two paintings. It doesn't require expertise to note a similarity. But thanks again.Maurice Magnus (talk) 11:35, 18 June 2021 (UTC)

On this Talk page, my parenthetical does not appear, but the Manet does. That is better than my parenthetical, and deals with your points: One does not need to cite a reliable source to simply show a picture. Can you make the article look like the Talk page, please? I don't know how to do that.Maurice Magnus (talk) 11:41, 18 June 2021 (UTC)

You can see how that is done in the wikitext of this section. I don't think adding the Manet to the article is a good idea, it is off-topic/out of WP:PROPORTION. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 11:50, 18 June 2021 (UTC)

Yes, it is off-topic; it is more than a parenthetical attached to a picture that is on-topic. I'll leave it be. Maurice Magnus (talk) 11:59, 18 June 2021 (UTC)Thanks.

Giuseppe Mazzini's date of birth

In the NCERT textbook(CBSE curriculum in India) - "Born in Genoa in 1807, he became a member of the secret society of the Carbonari". On Wikipedia, it is 22 June 1805. And apart from that, his date of death(here) has been given to be 10 March 1872, implying that his age when he died was 66 years, eight months and eighteen days. But his age, at the time of his death, is 64 years. So, he must have been born in 1807.

A far more likely explanation is that the textbook you cite is mistaken. Virtually all reliable sources say 1805. Hqb (talk) 06:25, 17 October 2021 (UTC)

I trust the Enciclopedia Italiana. Thank you, however, for showing the source from which 1807 is deduced as the year of birth. Alex2006 (talk) 14:27, 17 October 2021 (UTC)

References

What do you think of the League of Nations?

Pls 49.146.163.219 (talk) 07:20, 9 January 2022 (UTC)