Talk:Gigi Hadid

Death threats and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict

This information was reverted, with the following edit summary: "at least some appears UNDUE and has been discussed on talk page". She is of Palestinian descent. How can her pro-Palestinian stance and death threats against her be WP:UNDUE?

Hadid has supported Palestine and criticized the Israeli occupation for many years. In October 2023, she expressed concern over the humanitarian situation in Gaza during the Israel–Hamas war. She and her family have received death threats for their pro-Palestinian stance.

References

-- Tobby72 (talk) 20:42, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

What don't you understand regarding the relevant policies and previous discussions? --Hipal (talk) 22:46, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

Please point where in previous discussions it was decided that her stance regarding the Israeli occupation shouldn't be mentioned at all. Only the accusations of antisemitism were disregarded and rightly so. How is this different from any of the other movements she supports and are included in the article? - Ïvana (talk) 04:31, 24 April 2024 (UTC)

Afaict, there is no previous discussion of the death threats. Gigi's views on Palestine are missing from her bio. Burrobert (talk) 05:21, 24 April 2024 (UTC)

Apologies for the confusion. Bella vs Gigi, editing by apparent fans vs anti-fans, I lost track.

It all comes down to what references we have available and relevant policies. For references: WP:RS, WP:IS, and WP:BLPRS. As to the POV issues: WP:NOT (especially NOTNEWS), WP:RECENTISM, WP:POV.

There appeared to be better references regarding Bella than Gigi. Do we have any in-depth references available on Gigi's views? Last we discussed on Bella's talk page, it was unclear if editors understand the basics of what references are appropriate in a BLP. --Hipal (talk) 16:32, 24 April 2024 (UTC)

That's quite an alphabet soup, lacking any specific connection to the current discussion. Her views on the Israeli occupation and genocide were sourced to the Guardian and the Independent. We should not participate in the attempted erasure of Palestine by hiding her views from readers. Here are some more sources:

• Hadid and her sister, Gigi, who is also a supermodel, are vocal supporters of Palestinian rights whose social media posts reach tens of millions of followers.[1]
• This Newsweek article details Gigi’s views over time.[2]
• Here’s a RollingStone article which discusses Gigi’s push back about the popular Israeli tactic of conflatiing support for Palestinians with antisemitism.[3]
• It appears that the Israel government was concerned enough about Gigi’s influence that it responded on Instagram to her statements.[4]
• A Newsweek article from 2021 details her views at the time.[5] Burrobert (talk) 07:02, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

That's quite an alphabet soup They are WP:PAGs. If you cannot respect them, then we're wasting time here. --Hipal (talk) 16:52, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

Courtesy tag regarding the RFC below. FortunateSons (talk) 16:23, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

Some more sources on her support for Palestine:

• This 2021 source[6] says: "Hadid, who is half-Palestinian through her father, has been vocal about the recent escalation of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Posting to her Instagram stories and her grid, she has brought attention to the ongoing violence, shared information about what it means to be Palestinian, and denounced human rights abuses". It quotes Hadid as saying:

“One cannot advocate for racial equality, LGBT & women’s rights, condemn corrupt & abusive regimes and other injustices yet choose to ignore the Palestinian oppression. It does not add up. You cannot pick & choose whose human rights matter more".

• The words Palestine/Palestinian appear three times in Gigi's bio, once in relation to her father's background and twice in relation to an incident from 2022. There is nothing about her comments on the treatment of Palestinians by the Israeli regime. In the one incident where the word Palestinian is mentioned we have removed the context so that readers will not be aware she was comparing the invasion of Ukraine by Russia with the behaviour of Israel towards Palestine. Here is an Israeli source which mentions this comparison "Last month, Gigi Hadid compared Russia’s invasion of Ukraine to Israel’s control of the West Bank".[7]
• Gigi commented on a terror attack in Tel Aviv in 2022 [8] "Vocally anti-Israel supermodel Gigi Hadid on Saturday criticized last week’s deadly terror attack in Tel Aviv as detrimental to the Palestinian national cause and a disappointment to Palestinians who want peace".
• Here are some sources which cover her reaction to the 7 October attack.[9][10][11][12] They quote her as saying:

"I have deep empathy and heartbreak for the Palestinian struggle and life under occupation, it’s a responsibility I hold daily".

"I also feel a responsibility to my Jewish friends to make it clear, as I have before: While I have hopes and dreams for Palestinians, none of them include the harm of a Jewish person".

"The terrorising of innocent people is not in alignment with & does not do any good for the ‘Free Palestine’ movement".

The sources say "Hadid and her younger sister Bella, whose 74-year-old father Mohamed was born in Nazareth, Israel, have always been vocal in showing their support for the Palestinian cause".

• Some reactions to Gigi's post about 7 October.[13]
• As mentioned above, the Israeli regime is concerned about her influence and has responded to her on social media. These sources cover her pushback against the Israeli tactic of smearing those who criticise Israel as anti-Semitic.[14][15][16][17][18][19][20] They say "The supermodel shared a graphic to her Instagram story that read: “There is nothing Jewish about the Israeli government’s treatment of Palestinians. Condemning the Israeli government is not antisemitic and supporting Palestinians is not supporting Hamas". " Burrobert (talk) 04:53, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

As long as it's unclear if you can respect Wikipedia's policies, this seems a waste of time. Are you familiar with "throwing mud at the wall"? --Hipal (talk) 17:59, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

Her long-term pro-Palestinian activism is definitely not NEWS, RECENTISM or UNDUE. I would suggest Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard and/or Wikipedia:Requests for comment. -- Tobby72 (talk) 09:19, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

Given the sources listed above does anyone oppose mentioning her views on the Israel-Palestine conflict? Burrobert (talk) 11:17, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

Her long-term pro-Palestinian activism is definitely not NEWS, RECENTISM or UNDUE. I agree to an extent. What BLP-quality references support that?

The sources above appear to have been thrown out without regard to the relevant policies. I suggest identifying the best of them, explain how they meet BLP criteria, and what they could be used for.

I wrote over at Talk:Bella Hadid, "The Guardian piece doesn't give us much to work with, and doesn't rise above NOTNEWS and RECENTISM. Is there something better?" As for Gigi, the total content about her is "Hadid and her sister, Gigi, who is also a supermodel, are vocal supporters of Palestinian rights whose social media posts reach tens of millions of followers." We need to be careful not to fall into OR/SYN with what we apply to Gigi. --Hipal (talk) 16:29, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

The Guardian, The Independent, The West Australian, news.com.au, yahoo!, Variety are generally regarded as suitable sources. Other sources which may be suitable, although they are not ideal, are Times of Israel, Newsweek, Bustle, Middle East Eye, HuffPost. How many sources are needed to say that Gigi "has supported Palestine and criticised the Israeli occupation for many years". Or for saying "In October 2023, she expressed concern over the humanitarian situation in Gaza during the Israel–Hamas war". Or for saying she "compared Russia’s invasion of Ukraine to Israel’s control of the West Bank"? Burrobert (talk) 17:14, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

We only need one if it clearly meets the policies, a few if we're struggling with the polices listed. Currently, it's unclear if we have any. Given the topic and contentious topic areas, let's ignore those you state are "not ideal". BLP requires high-quality sources. --Hipal (talk) 17:58, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

Here comes a lot of text. I have copied some relevant content from the relevant articles linked above. There is a fair bit of duplication. The intention is not to include the text, but to use it as a basis for summaries such as those suggested above.

• Guardian

Hadid and her sister, Gigi, who is also a supermodel, are vocal supporters of Palestinian rights whose social media posts reach tens of millions of followers.

• The Independent

Hadid’s Instagram Story post, which was originally shared by @consent.wizardry, read: “There is nothing Jewish about the Israeli government’s treatment of Palestinians. Condemning the Israeli government is not antisemitic and supporting Palestinians is not supporting Hamas.” In response, the official Instagram account for the State of Israel criticised Hadid’s statement

The Instagram row comes one week after the mother-of-one shared an initial statement about the Israel-Hamas war. On 10 October, she condemned the “terrorising of innocent people” and wrote that her dreams for a free Palestine are not at the cost of Jewish people.

“While I have hopes and dreams for Palestinians, none of them include the harm of a Jewish person,” Hadid wrote on Instagram, adding that inflicting terror on innocent people is “not in alignment with and does not do any good for the Free Palestine movement”.

“The idea that it does has fueled a painful, decades-long cycle of back and forth retaliation (which no innocent civilian, Palestinian or Israeli deserves to be a casualty of), and helps perpetuate the false idea that being Pro-Palestine [is equal to] antisemitic,” Hadid continued. Both Gigi and her fellow supermodel sister, Bella Hadid, have been vocal about their support for the Free Palestine movement. On 17 October, TMZ reported that the Hadid family - including their brother, Anwar Hadid, and mother Yolanda Hadid - have been “receiving death threats over their support for Palestine”.

• The West Australian

“I have deep empathy and heartbreak for the Palestinian struggle and life under occupation, it’s a responsibility I hold daily. “I also feel a responsibility to my Jewish friends to make it clear, as I have before: While I have hopes and dreams for Palestinians, none of them include the harm of a Jewish person. “The terrorising of innocent people is not in alignment with & does not do any good for the ‘Free Palestine’ movement.” Hadid and her younger sister Bella, whose 74-year-old father Mohamed was born in Nazareth, Israel, have always been vocal in showing their support for the Palestinian cause.

• news.com.au

The 28-year-old, who has been a longtime advocate for the ‘Free Palestine’ movement alongside her sister Bella Hadid, described the ongoing devastation in the region as an “unjustifiable tragedy”, throwing her support behind Palestine’s struggle while also condemning the violence that had arisen as a result of the attacks. “I have deep empathy for the Palestinian struggle and life under occupation, it’s a responsibility I hold daily,” she wrote. “I also feel a responsibility to my Jewish friends to make it clear, as I have before: While I have hopes and dreams for Palestinians, none of them include the harm of a Jewish person. “The terrorising of innocent people is not in alignment with and does not do any good for the ‘Free Palestine’ movement. “The idea that it does has fuelled a painful, decades-long cycle of back and forth retaliation (which no innocent civilian, Palestinian or Israeli, deserves to be a casualty of) and helps perpetuate the false idea that being Pro-Palestine = antisemitic.”

• yahoo!

Gigi sympathized with both sides before thoroughly pointing out that "terrorizing of innocent people" wasn't the way to go about achieving the "Free Palestine" movement.

She said, "The terrorizing of innocent people is not in alignment with & does not do any good for the 'Free Palestine' movement. "The idea that it does has fueled a painful, decades long cycle of back & forth retaliation (which no innocent civilian, Palestinian or Israeli, deserves to be a casualty of) and helps perpetuate the false idea that being Pro-Palestine = antisemitic."

• Variety

The supermodel shared a graphic to her Instagram story that read: “There is nothing Jewish about the Israeli government’s treatment of Palestinians. Condemning the Israeli government is not antisemitic and supporting Palestinians is not supporting Hamas.” The State of Israel provided its own version of the graphic Hadid originally shared. She took to Instagram last week to share a statement on the matter to her millions of followers. “My thoughts are with all those affected by this unjustifiable tragedy, and every day that innocent lives are taken by this conflict too many of which are children,” Hadid shared at the time. “I have deep empathy and heartbreak for the Palestinian struggle and life under occupation, it’s a responsibility I hold daily. I also feel a responsibility to my Jewish friends to make it clear, as I have before: While I have hopes and dreams for Palestinians, none of them include the harm of a Jewish person. The terrorizing of innocent people is not in alignment with and does not do any good for the ‘Free Palestine’ movement.

Burrobert (talk) 05:55, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

Thank you.

We appear to agree that there's only a single sentence in the Guardian article that's useful.

Re The Independent (written by Meredith Clark, a lifestyle reporter, on 18 October). The article is entertainment churnalism, quoting hadid's social media posts at length, quoting State of Israel responses, providing some basic information on the state of the war, and ending with lengthy quotes from another Riz Ahmed against Israel's actions.

It's a poor reference. If we use it at all, I don't see much encyclopedic value for anything beyond, "Both Gigi and her fellow supermodel sister, Bella Hadid, have been vocal about their support for the Free Palestine movement. Their father, American real-estate developer Mohamed Anwar Hadid, is a Palestinian immigrant."

I'll get to the rest as I find time.

I'm unclear what article from "The West Australian" you're referring to. Could you please provide links at a minimum for each potential reference? --Hipal (talk) 18:31, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

Links to the articles were provided previously. Anyway. I'll repeat them here:

Guardian [21]

The Independent [22]

The West Australian [23]

news.com.au [24]

yahoo! [25]

Variety [26]

The Guardian article was mainly about Bella so it would be a good reference for her bio but it is sufficient to support the statement that Gigi is a "vocal supporters of Palestinian rights", something which is not currently mentioned in her bio.

Btw, HuffPost, RollingStone, Yahoo! and TMZ are already being used as sources on the page so we may be able to use articles from those sources as well.

Given the length of this discussion and the fact no one else sems to be interested, I may start adding info about Gigi's views as documented by the better sources above. You can decide whether the text added is reasonable and perhaps we can then move on to some RfC's. Burrobert (talk) 06:51, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

So would these sources be acceptable to use? Yahoo Huffpost - Ïvana (talk) 13:49, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

Both sources mention Gigi in relation to a letter to Biden requesting he support a ceasefire. The existence of the letter is not controversial so the sources would be adequate for mentioning that fact. Gigi's signing of the letter is mentioned elsewhere, e.g. USAToday.[27] Burrobert (talk) 14:57, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the links. The West Australian article is at PerthNow, so I was unable to find it in all the links. --Hipal (talk) 16:47, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

The Perth Now/Western Australian article is written by an entertainment reporter, with almost identical format and very similar content as that of The Independent. It's a poor source.

The News.com.au article is very similar to the previous two, and poor.

TheBlast article hosted on Yahoo appears unreliable.

The Variety article is very similar to the other entertainment pieces, only much shorter and with far less context. It's churnalism and clickbait. It's a very poor source. --Hipal (talk) 18:20, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

The sources are considered generally reliable for facts so we are within scope if we use the articles for facts. Anyway, you can provide feedback once I add suitable content from the articles. Burrobert (talk) 04:55, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

Sorry, but BLP requires more in terms of reference quality and adherence to content policies, and places the burden on those seeking to include article content. Put a proposal together, and we can discuss it. --Hipal (talk) 17:20, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

RfC: Israeli-Palestinian conflict

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

Should we include information about her pro-Palestinian stance and related death threats? -- Tobby72 (talk) 18:38, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

If this is covered by independent and reliable sources, it can be included in the Personal life section. --NoonIcarus (talk) 19:41, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

Support inclusion, including the reception of her advocacy. We have significant RS coverage, and it’s clearly both significant and unique enough to warrant a section (probably around 3 paragraphs (covering actions, death threats and reception/reaction) in length, but others may disagree) FortunateSons (talk) 16:16, 24 May 2024 (UTC)

Comment RS sigcov per request, sourcing/selection can be derived later:

FAZ: 1 2

Independent: 1

Times of Israel: 1

HuffPost (note the relevant restrictions): 1

i24: 1

Haaretz: 1

Jerusalem Post:1

RollingStone: 1

ynet: 1

Allgemeiner: 1

Please note the following:

1. While I believe that all are RS, I could have overlooked one or more unreliable sources

2. This search was done using key words, which may influence the outcome

3. It’s not an exhaustive list, nor is it all available content from each source.

4. some of those may have significant bias, and other sources were excluded due to reliability concerns. My judgement is not final.

5. I’m in Europe, so my search results may be impacted by privacy protections FortunateSons (talk) 17:08, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for identifying some possible sources. Are any new, or are they all from past discussions? --Hipal (talk) 17:19, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

The search is new, but I assume that there is significant overlap.

For example, I believe that one of the FAZ sources and the HuffPost one are new, and I think we had a different ToI one back then. I could be wrong though (except about HuffPost due to the date). FortunateSons (talk) 17:26, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

Given past discussions and the requirements of BLP, this RfC should be closed until the potential refs are reviewed. --Hipal (talk) 18:10, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

I respectfully disagree. Anyone voting can review sources (and/or add their own), and we can then work on the details if there is a consensus to include. However, this has been an on/off discussion (not counting reverts) for months, so a consensus for or against inclusion would save a significant amount of editor resources. An agreement at least vague content would already cut down on 80% of past discussions. FortunateSons (talk) 18:15, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

You're not going to change consensus by working out the details later. --Hipal (talk) 02:25, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

Support per FortunateSons. Tobby72 (talk) 12:36, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

Support in principle, but it would be much easier to assess if there were specific text to comment on. Clearly issues of due WEIGHT apply.Pincrete (talk) 04:56, 28 May 2024 (UTC)

Identify some sources and propose some content first. Otherwise you risk violating BLP and the three areas of editing restrictions that apply here. --Hipal (talk) 16:37, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

Reject as a BLP and CON vio. This doesn't look like a policy-based attempt at creating consensus as long as there are no details. --Hipal (talk) 02:25, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Post-RfC proposals

Please list proposals here so we can evaluate the references and proposed content against content policies while avoiding policy violations. --Hipal (talk) 16:46, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

Thank you. This is the (most recent) sourcing list from above, would you consider any of them unsuitable or unreliable?

FAZ: 1 2

Independent: 1

Times of Israel: 1

HuffPost (note the relevant restrictions): 1

i24: 1

Haaretz: 1

Jerusalem Post:1

RollingStone: 1

ynet: 1

Allgemeiner: 1 FortunateSons (talk) 08:14, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

That would depend on the proposals. M.Bitton (talk) 08:28, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

Of course, but I would rather work with sources whose accuracy is not disputed FortunateSons (talk) 09:02, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

The reliability of the sources is always context dependent, and besides, there are other policies that come into play when dealing with a WP:BLP. Do you have a proposal to suggest? M.Bitton (talk) 09:06, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

• After posting a statement which was supportive of Palestinians - describe by Rollingstone as “extremely mild”, the Instagram Account of the Israeli Government posted two stories criticising her.(RollingStone)(Independent)
• Hadid stated that she received death threats after speaking out. (Independent) (FAZ)
• Despite pressure from activists and receiving over 4000 letter, her agency IMG Models did not end their work with her.(Ynet)
• In November 2023, Hadid claimed that Israel was harvesting the organs of Palestinians, a claim described as a Blood libel.(Allgemeiner) She was critical about the imprisonment of Ahmad Al-Manasara, a Palestinian boy convicted of attempting to stab two Israelis, and claimed that Israel was the only country that held children as prisoners of war. Hadid later apologised for claiming that Israel had abducted, tortured and raped Palestinians before the 2023 Hamas-led attack on Israel, stating that “I shared something that I did not fact-check or deeply think about prior to reposting”.(Allgemeiner)(JPost)(I24)(Haaretz)(ToI)
• Hadid wore a “keffiyeh-print dress” at Cannes, aknowledging it as a symbol of her support for Palestine.(HuffPost)

Those are the ones that have enough Sigcov that it’s pretty clear IMO. There are a bunch of general statements about her support for Palestinians and opposition to Oct 7, I’m not sure which of those are due, but am in favour of including at least a few. FortunateSons (talk) 09:49, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

The RfC was about adding information about her pro-Palestinian stance and related death threats. The first part is already mentioned in the article (we don't need the minutiae). What do you propose for the second? M.Bitton (talk) 10:14, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

And my statement of “including the reception of her advocacy” per which the person who created the RfC voted. So we need the reactions to her post (at least point 4, it is clearly due). I also think we should elaborate a bit on her activism, it’s rather short FortunateSons (talk) 11:06, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

The RfC close didn't say anything about "elaborating" on her activism. She's a model, what she does on the side plays second fiddle to that.

Do you have a proposal to suggest? M.Bitton (talk) 11:12, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

That depends. Which of the above points do you consider to be unfit for inclusion, and based on which policy? FortunateSons (talk) 11:16, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

No proposal means nothing to comment on. Moving on. M.Bitton (talk) 11:32, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

Any of the sentences are a proposed sentence, there is no obligation to merge them first, and separate sentences are easier to discuss FortunateSons (talk) 12:01, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

In that case, you need to seek consensus for them individually. M.Bitton (talk) 12:12, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

Sure. Do you have an objection to any of the sentences? FortunateSons (talk) 12:50, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

Taken together, they are UNDUE beyond the pale, that's why I kept asking to suggest a proposal. M.Bitton (talk) 12:55, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

Point 2 is the shortest possible description of what the RfC supported regarding death threats, so that one is fine, right?

Point 4 has excellent RS coverage and should go in, are you opposed to it?

I’m not opposed to changing/removing 3 and 5, but some idea of “activism through an about fashion” is probably due.

We should cover her statements, through it doesn’t have to be trough point 1, even if “called out by a government” is probably worthy of mention. FortunateSons (talk) 13:19, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

No objection to point 2 or a variation of it. The rest is UNDUE. M.Bitton (talk) 13:45, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

How is it Point 4 undue? There is coverage of the incident by:

FAZ

ToI

I24

Haaretz

Allgemeiner

Newsweek

National Post

and others, it’s neither routine nor minor, and therefore due. FortunateSons (talk) 16:00, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

Since when do we add content simply because "there is coverage" of it? Anyway, I said what I think and don't intend on repeating it. M.Bitton (talk) 16:09, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

Would you be willing to provide a policy-based reason why something covered by multiple newspapers of record is undue? FortunateSons (talk) 16:16, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

I already have. As far as I'm concerned, Wikipedia is not a newspaper. I'm done here until the OP has had a chance to share their views. M.Bitton (talk) 16:21, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

Given the political aspects of the existing and proposed content, asking to use references that are specifically excluded from such use is a waste of time.

I mostly agree with M.Bitton. I don't think we've made any progress on addressing NOT and POV problems with such content. I'm unsure if any mention of the death threats is due. --Hipal (talk) 21:36, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

Which references are specifically excluded? I cross-checked with RSN and the list, but I could have missed one or more. FortunateSons (talk) 21:58, 29 July 2024 (UTC)