Talk:Gianfranco Chiarini

Gianfranco Chiarini

Per user Anthaenara, Gianfranco Chiarini'a Wikipedia article is written with bias and as a promotional. However, the article has been written and re-written several times utlizing references to source the statements. This discussion has been posted so that the article may be read, and so that contributors may make editing suggestions. In the event, we cannot resolve this matter we will seek further advice from the Wikipedia Neutral Point of View Notice Board. Beverly Wehmer Johnson (talk) 21:01, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Articles should be dispassionate and use strictly neutral language: no one here "has a passion" or a "multifaceted career". If you browse WP:WTA you will see the principles involved (that page is not directly related to what I just mentioned, but the principles are). Most of the current text in the article reads like marketspeak that may be found on a typical personal website.

We do not use titles, and after the first mention in the lead, the subject of an article is generally referred to only with their surname (no "Chef Chiarini"). It is almost always inappropriate to mention that a subject has had some vague association with a well known person (like Jimmy Carter) unless an independent secondary source has commented on the association.

External links must comply with WP:EL, and per WP:NOTDIRECTORY an article should not attempt to list things like "magazine articles" that mention the subject of an article.

I noticed this at WP:NPOVN. Johnuniq (talk) 07:57, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

Thank you for your input, and suggestions. I will make the necessary changes, and ask then for a review. Beverly Wehmer Johnson (talk) 12:08, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

Can you please review the revisions to see if we are Wikipedia friendly, and less promotional. Beverly Wehmer Johnson (talk) 21:26, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

The recent edits were very good. I have done a quick edit for style, and removed or reworded a few problem phrases. Following are some issues I noticed that need attention. The first one is a big problem.

• Most of the text is not supported by reliable sources. In due course, all unsourced material will need to be removed (see WP:V and WP:NOR).
• Use of the "Michelin stars" is dubious. I doubt very much if that style is used in articles about other chefs or restaurants. Click the "Italian chefs" category at the bottom for ideas.
• Text "decided to go back to the United States" is not clear: I do not see where a first visit is mentioned.
• Text "Beginning the new millennium" should just be replaced with "In 2000" or whatever the year was.
• Text "great source of culinary inspiration" needs to be reworked. Perhaps just omit the sentence or paragraph.
• Words like "recently" and "currently" do not work here (I removed a couple) because this is not a magazine article with a certain publication date.
• Some external links are located within the article. They need to be replaced with a wikilink to a Wikipedia article, or perhaps used as a source that provides information to be used in the article, or removed.
• The "Magazine articles" section will have to go. Instead, if a source satisfies the "reliable" link mentioned above, encyclopedic information from that source can be added to the article, and the article used as a reference.

Later I will have another look at the article. It is close to the stage with the "advert" tag can be removed, but it will have to be replaced with a tag stating that more references are needed. Johnuniq (talk) 02:54, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Thank you for your input, and assistance. I will work on the needed changes today. Beverly Wehmer Johnson (talk) 12:22, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

• Use of the "Michelin stars" is dubious. I doubt very much if that style is used in articles about other chefs or restaurants. Click the "Italian chefs" category at the bottom for ideas. This is commonly used, please take a look at Gordon Ramsay's Wiki page; Thomas Keller et al. Beverly Wehmer Johnson (talk) 13:11, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Text "decided to go back to the United States" is not clear: I do not see where a first visit is mentioned if you look at the Early Life section you will see that this mentions his growing up between Venezula, Italy and the U.S. Should we word this differently, as it notes him living in the U.S. prior to him attending school at Pittsburgh Culinary Institute?Beverly Wehmer Johnson (talk) 13:16, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Edits, and revisions are complete...please read at your convenience so that we might resolve the advert issue. Beverly Wehmer Johnson (talk) 13:47, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

The article is greatly improved, thanks, and I have removed the advert tag. I forgot to mention, but it was a good idea that you did not remove the tag yourself—it may not be apparent, but while we are all equal here (I'm just another volunteer), it is best to avoid any possible COI problem by leaving things like removing tags to independent editors. I haven't studied the article in detail, but it looks pretty good now (except for the sources, see below).

The external links within the article "should" be removed, and I might get around later to thinking about how to reasonably achieve that. For example, the VisitVineyards.com link could probably be easily turned into a reference. When doing that, it is best to paraphrase the source (not too closely because we avoid even appearing to breach copyright). Presumably it says something about top twelve in Australia at a certain time (I haven't looked), and the article could briefly state that as a fact, using the link in a reference.

I don't think "work in Michelin restaurants" is quite right (although this topic is outside my knowledge): possibly "work in Michelin-rated restaurants", or "Michelin-starred"?

Re the external links: There is only one "official" site for a person or organization. Any other sites should be listed on the one official site. Many experienced editors would quickly remove the consultant and blog links because Wikipedia should not appear to promote an entity. We do not provide comprehensive links (see WP:NOTDIRECTORY).

The big problem remains the sourcing. It should be easy to add a few more references for the many unsourced facts in the article. For example, I previously had a quick look at one of the article external links you deleted and it had an interview with various facts mentioned. We hope for better sources than light-weight interviews (a secondary source is ideal, like an article in a major and reliable media outlet), but a reasonable source is better than nothing. If paragraphs are not sourced, it is quite likely that an editor will simply remove the text (particularly with bios of living people, see WP:BLP, sourcing is required, but WP:V actually requires sourcing for all articles). If the unsourced paras were removed, the article would be perhaps one third of its current length. Johnuniq (talk) 01:33, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

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