Talk:Ghabat Kafr Sur

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 7 September 2020

Please add as the second paragraph under #British Mandate era:

In 1932, two Jewish settlements were established on lands purchased from Ghabat Kafr Sur, and named Kfar Tzur and Tel Tzur after the original village. Kfar Tzur was renamed into Be'er Ganim in 1933.[1] Those two settlements were merged into Even Yehuda in 1950.

Crash48 (talk) 13:00, 7 September 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 22:47, 11 September 2020 (UTC)

There you go: https://books.google.co.il/books?id=m2M1AAAAIAAJ&q=%22%D7%94%D7%A9%D7%9D+%D7%94%D7%A2%D7%A8%D7%91%D7%99+%D7%9B%D7%A4%D7%A8+%D7%A6%D7%95%D7%A8%22 --Crash48 (talk) 12:44, 17 September 2020 (UTC)

One more (not accessible on Google Books): http://www.jstor.org/stable/24370844 p. 325 --Crash48 (talk) 14:31, 17 September 2020 (UTC)

@Crash48:, I'm sorry I haven't been able to update this request but I don't read Hebrew so I can't verify these sources. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 20:04, 18 September 2020 (UTC)

N Not done and not likely to be done You would need someone bilingual in Hebrew and English, and that is unlikely to happen. None of the other sources are in Hebrew, so if you could find an English one please re-activate your request. GreenFrogsGoRibbit (talk) 12:37, 24 September 2020 (UTC)

There are lots of people like that. I am one. The problem is that the snippet in the first link starts off with part of the information that needs to be sourced, but doesn't contain all of it. The second link is nice, but I don't have access to JStore. If somebody could send me the book (my email is available on the left-side pane and on my talkpage), I'll be happy to look at it and make the edit. Debresser (talk) 19:33, 28 September 2020 (UTC)

@Debresser: please see https://books.google.co.il/books?id=m2M1AAAAIAAJ&q=%22%D7%94%D7%A2%D7%A8%D7%91%D7%99+%D7%9B%D7%A4%D7%A8+%D7%A6%D7%95%D7%A8%22 for the continuation of that page. --Crash48 (talk) 19:45, 28 September 2020 (UTC)

Not helping enough. By the way, that does not completely cover the information that you want to be added to this page. Debresser (talk) 19:54, 28 September 2020 (UTC)

Which parts of the information remain unsourced? --Crash48 (talk) 20:01, 28 September 2020 (UTC)

@Debresser: you should have received the PDF from Jstor; you may need to check your spam folder. --Crash48 (talk) 16:34, 30 September 2020 (UTC)

Not yet. Not in spam either. Debresser (talk) 17:27, 30 September 2020 (UTC)

To editor Crash48: That is an excellent source; I wish it was in English. In the last paragraph of p325 I see that Kfar Tzur and Tel Tzur were named after Umm at-Tzur. It also says that Kfar Tzur is also called Be'er Ganim, adapted from a nearby Arabic name Bir Anim. Where is the source for your last sentence "Those two settlements were merged into Even Yehuda in 1950."? Zero^talk 02:40, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

Thank you Zero0000! ע' is the standard transliteration for غ, so that's Bir Ghanim, as already mentioned in Even Yehuda#History; and צ is the standard transliteration for ص, so that's Umm aṣ-Ṣur, some 6km to the northeast. The first source (by the same author, Zev Vilnay, but six years newer) states explicitly that Tel Tzur was named after Kafr Sur, so he must have corrected his earlier misattribution. As for the merger in 1950: https://books.google.co.il/books?id=6CUkAQAAIAAJ&dq=%22%D7%AA%D7%9C+%D7%A6%D7%95%D7%A8%22 --Crash48 (talk) 08:47, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

I pressed that link, but do not see any information bout the merger there. Debresser (talk) 22:09, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

It shows me a snippet from Page 95. I've now uploaded it to https://imgur.com/a/2CGZcAe Do the other Google Books links show you the relevant snippets? --Crash48 (talk) 21:48, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

@Debresser: and @Zero0000: which parts of the information remain unsourced? --Crash48 (talk) 10:57, 6 October 2020 (UTC)

@Crash48: It is painfully close, but I don't see "Even Yehuda" in the last snippet. Does this newspaper article have it? Zero^talk 01:48, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

@Zero0000: No, the newspaper article from 1933 doesn't mention the merger in 1950. The local council's website does mention it without specifying the exact date: "עם קום המדינה סופחו לשטח המושבה קרקעות נוספות – מצפון כפר צור ותל צור, ממערב באר גנים ומדרום אדמות מדינה לשיכון העולים החדשים." The snippet from 1990 has the date, although the name "Even Yehuda" is outside the snippet. --Crash48 (talk) 04:44, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

@Zero0000: Additionally, note that the last snippet is on page 95 of the book; if you search for "אבן יהודה" in the book, google shows that it's the title of the chapter starting on page 95. --Crash48 (talk) 06:09, 12 October 2020 (UTC)