Talk:George Speck

hard to believe

Quite frankly I don't believe any of this. nominating for deletion.--Oni Ookami Alfador^Talk|@ 22:58, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Just because YOU don't believe it hardly means that it isn't true. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.199.250.34 (talk) 13:51, August 24, 2007 (UTC)

The deletion nomination calls the article "totally irrelevant." Um ... irrelevant to what? Google returns close to 25,000 entries on George Crum, most of them seemingly crediting him as the chef who invented a dish that now accounts for more than a third of annual savory snack sales in the US. That's a pretty big deal -- any number of prominent human beings who've had far smaller effects on popular culture and commerce are bioed on Wikipedia without complaints of "irrelevance" (Stephen King probably doesn't move as many books in a year as the average city's stores move bags of Crum's invention do in a day). I didn't create the original article and I agree that it needs to be improved, expanded, sourced, etc. and especially vetted for plagiarism. But the guy deserves at least a stub, certainly not a deletion. Thomaslknapp 01:13, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Black History Mythology

The noteriaty of this person is based on racial mythology that has been debunked.

"....Likewise, George Crum, chef of the Moon's Lake Lodge in Saratoga, New York, was supposed to have been the first person to fry thin slices of potatoes and serve them to customers, producing "Saratoga Potatoes." In fact, home recipes that called for fried "shavings" of raw potatoes had appeared in American cookery books for decades before George Crum worked at the Moon's Lake Lodge." source: http://foodhistorynews.com/debunk.html

I'd give that article more credit if they cited a source for those early recipes. In any case it wouldn't be the first time an item has been invented for a second time, what is more likely is that when they were served in Saratoga Springs (by Crum or not) they were discovered by society and given a visibility they hadn't enjoyed. Saxophobia (talk) 18:34, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

Snopes got it wrong once again. The article should be deleted. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.30.37.140 (talk) 17:06, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

I really don't like the aggressive tone of the previous posts, but I wonder why we (and everybody else who writes about Crum) foreground his race. DO we identify Anthony G. Brown as the black lieutenant governor of Maryland, or Kenneth I. Chenault as the african american CEO of American Express? DavidOaks (talk) 16:09, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

Added potato link--Superjoesh (talk) 04:26, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

While I'm fond of the story, I'm incredibly skeptical, myself, of this individual's "reasonably-documented" existence or accomplishments. I also think -- apologies for being a lazy bastid -- that it should be very easy to verify. The name "George Crum" is a bit too perfect. Food legends are almost always...legendary (see various legends where "its late at night, and famous person shows up at Unknown Restaurant, and Clever Restauteur Invents New Dish".

Man, I feel like a dick for typing that whole pretentious thing out. But seirously, I'd put money up that George Crum either never existed or didn't invent the potato chip. My guess: "George Crum" is invention of a newspaper columnist.  :)

He seems to have existed; in the 1860 census, he's listed as a mulatto living near the Malta post office (Saratoga, NY). That doesn't confirm the potato chip story, of course. Fine line between the wholly-invented hoax (like Mencken's tale of the first bathtub used in the White House) and the legend. Evidence is that potato chips have been independently invented any number of times; Crum is credited with one instance that led to their popularity in the US...maybe like Columbus being credited with the European discovery of North America, even though 1) he didn't actually reach it, or 2) know that it wasn't India, and 3) he was centuries later than the Vinland settlement. DavidOaks (talk) 13:28, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

He definitely existed, there was an 1891 feature article on him in the NY Tribune and a 1914 obit in the local paper. A 1983 academic article published in Western Folklore (now cited in this article and available on JSTOR, gives the history of the accounts re: Crum, which mostly developed in the 20th c. Yes, it appears potato chips were around and even published in cookbooks decades before he worked as a cook. People like personalized history, and telling stories helps them do that. This was aided by a commercial ad campaign in 1973.Parkwells (talk) 22:46, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

Actuality

Yes, George Crum actually existed. Be fair and don't debunk history just because you may or may not like the ethnicity of someone. Also, I'm deleting the "lack of patent holding" as a valid reason for the invention to not be credited. The potatoe chip is simply a derivative of a cooking method. People can invent something without registration (e.g., Cauchy's complex variable).Rajpaj (talk) 03:02, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

(Taken directly from the article page) --> I feel that this should be placed in the Discussion secton, and not visible for redaction. "It is curious that a biography commissioned by Crum himself in 1893 did not mention his famous invention.[5] It is possible that Crum's sister, Katie Speck Wicks, either made the first discovery herself or in conjunction with Crum.[6] A contemporary source even gives credit to Cary Moon's wife Harriet, stating that she developed the side dish over time.[7]"Rajpaj (talk) 03:07, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

These other accounts were decisively rejected by Bradley in his 1940 history of Saratoga. Article now reflects that.Parkwells (talk) 22:48, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

rearrangement

I reorganized this article slightly. I consolidated Crum's biographical information first, and moved the discussion of the potato chip controversy to it's own section. I left the phrase "credited in some popular accounts" in the lead, but otherwise I think it provides a more NPOV to keep it all together. I also organized the arguments by date, so I think it flows better. Peter Flass (talk) 01:56, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

second obituary

I came across a second obituary that does credit Crum as the inventor of potato chips. Unfortunately all I have now is a xerox of an unattributed clipping from the library. It must also be from July 27, 1914, since it begins "George Crum ... died at 9:45 o'clock last night." Since it's not the Saratogian I suspect it's from the Ballston Journal, which isn't online. I will try to track it down.

By the way, "Aunt Kate" later remarried, since she's identified as "Kate Adkins" in this obit. Her obituary is here "Negress dies at Age of 103" (PDF). Amsterdam Evening Recorder. May 19, 1917. Retrieved Feb 5, 2014. and credits her as the inventor!. She is buried in Greenridge Cemetery in Saratoga Springs. Peter Flass (talk) 14:05, 5 February 2014 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on George Crum. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20141022112858/http://www.civilwarinteractive.com/Potato.htm to http://www.civilwarinteractive.com/Potato.htm

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 20:07, 26 December 2017 (UTC)

Original research

Which sentences were just written and not based off of the citations in this article. This issue should be fixed quickly.Mcelite (talk) 00:20, 12 February 2019 (UTC)

Much of the Early life section failed verification when I tracked down the source from which it was supposedly based. There are also several examples of claims going beyond what the sources says throughout the article. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 00:24, 12 February 2019 (UTC)