Is the deletion proposal for Gaijin Sounds based on cultural bias? That Japan doesn't count because it is not in the Western theatre of culture. The person proposing the deletion is from Montreal which has a smaller population than the foreign population of Japan, yet Montreal has its own wiki articles on the Montreal Music Scene - who is to say that it is therefore more notable - just because it is western city? This goes against the principles of Wikipedia in my opinion and is a dangerous road to follow when we start using assumed cultural superiority as the basis of what is judged to be notable or not.
This foreign community is served by a number of newspapers and magazines of which Japanzine is the the largest national magazine covering all 4 islands. The foreign community in Japan is between 1-2 million due to varying estimates due to fluctuations in the recession. The magazine is in English but serves all nationalities and is widely read by Japanese. If a competition serving a music scene that involves more people than say Montreal is not notable then surely we must delete Montreal Music scene and that of every other city that is not LA or New York.
Regardless of whether the person proposing the deletion thinks Japan is important or not culturally, or that culture in Japan means temples and is not an evolving force, the fact remains that Gaijin Sounds is the biggest competition and is the focal point for the music community in Japan. The fact that the competition is open to even Japanese people as long as one member is foreign means its reach and cultural significance is even greater inpact.
The article is designed to be a starting point of a wider work on specific arts and culture amongst differing commmunities in Japan, particularly Tokyo. It would be a shame to kill it off and may have negative repercussions for other cities and arts communities which could then be targeted for deletion for not being as notable as another city. The idea here is knowledge.(Carnivale2000 (talk) 09:38, 26 February 2010 (UTC)).
- Can you show reliable third party references that attest to the actual notability of Gaijin Sounds? If you look at my deletion rationale, it was because I was unable to find such references for either Gaijin Sounds or 外人サウンド on Google.
- Also, please be aware that in the past I've requested the deletion of articles on subjects I was familiar with, most recently Rachel Street. -- Blanchardb -Me•MyEars•MyMouth- timed 02:34, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
The real issue here is you alone are deciding "notability" on a community you know nothing about. It may not be notable to you in Montreal but neither are some of your articles such as The Bridges of Montreal notable to anyone outside of Montreal. I have no interest in these bridges yet I defend your right absolutely for you to educate people about them. I think I have the same right to procide information on the music scene in Japan.
You main proof of lack of notability is Google and your own knowledge base. Come to Japan, come see the thriving arts community we have here, talk to the musicians, go around Japan and ask them what they think, then you have the right to form an opinion on whether the non-Japanese music community in Japan is important or not.
The Gaijin Sounds article is a starting point for more articles on the foreign music community in Japan that encompasses all nationalities that live, which is between 1.5-2 million people. How can anyone say that is not notable, especially as I previously pointed out when Montreal and many other smaller communities have their own articles. To maintain this position is cultural bias and goes against the core principles of wiki.
It is disrespectful to say that one culture is less notable than another.Period.
Furthermore, I have just started to write on Wikipedia. I estimate it will take me 6 months-1 year to get up to speed. Wikpedia is supposed to be for everyone, right? I think we are dangerous ground when we have self-appointed wikipedia police dispensing justice on what is important and what is not. I don't have the technical means to or know-how yet as I work 12-hour days. I apologize for not ebing up to speed yet but I started the article as a seed to grow, hoping other people will latch on and add to it. I intended to write about the other big event last year, Japan Music Week, but I guess that will be deemed unimportant too.
The reason Gaijin Sounds is from a primary source is that other media are the competition for a fierce market for readership here. Washington Post doesn't mention You don't allow musicians websites or blogs as evidence either. Does other media institutions advertise and promote their rival's competitions? No. Japanzine holds the competition, but it is the only national competition for foreigners and the only national magazine for foreigners in Japan. For those reasons, the competition is very notable here. The Booker Prize means nothing here as it for English books - does that make it redundant? Notability should not be subjective and not subject to google alone. Like I say, come here and see for yourself.
The competition is in its third year and growing all the time.
Please have respect for other cultures and communities before you accuse them of being irrelevant. there is enough Japan-bashing going on at the moment as it is. Thank you. (Carnivale2000 (talk) 09:38, 26 February 2010 (UTC)). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Carnivale2000 (talk • contribs) 09:33, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
- The real issue here is I am not alone deciding "notability" on a community I know nothing about. If you read the deletion tag carefully, it links to a discussion, to which you are invited. So your entire argument falls flat. Notability, the way we define it here, is factual. Either the festival has been the subject of non-trivial coverage in third-party reliable sources or it hasn't. The only way you can save the article from deletion is to show that the festival has indeed been so covered. I came up emptyhanded when I looked for such coverage. -- Blanchardb -Me•MyEars•MyMouth- timed 00:42, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
I would like to support Gaijon Sounds: Gaijin Sounds was mentioned in Metropolis, the biggest foreign magazine in Tokyo, when a signed band, The Watanabes, played the final: http://metropolis.co.jp/arts/agenda/the-watanabes/
Gaijin Sounds was also mentioned in Japanzine, which is a major national magazine for foreigners in Japan.
I noticed the person who wanted to deleted it used Japanese Katakana to search but his katakana spelling was incorrect btw. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.133.14.236 (talk) 14:21, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
OK. Read the Wiki Rules. Will stick to the rules rather than offer arguments that don't resolve the issue. Done some research and the competition has been mentioned by multiple reliable third-party sources, namely Metropolis magazine in October 2009 [1]; and was featured on the radio show Tokyo Expresso on 22/5/10[2] hosted by one of the major DJs in Japan, Guy Perryman from InterFM.
The question is now is whether being publicized in the two biggest foreign magazines in Japan and being featured on a major radio show is enough to be deemed notable. This all depends on whether the magazines and the radio shows are then notable in Japan and seeing as they are the biggest players serving a substantial foreign community in Japan then it would suggest they are.
If not then it opens up a lot of questions on the potential for cultural bias and perhaps even more unpleasant notions such as racism. For example, if the English Wiki is written by native English speakers does this then mean that there will be "institutional racism" towards non-English speaking cultures, demeaning their cultural value, judging them as unimportant.
The purpose of the article is to expand knowledge of the non-Japanese music scene in Japan, of which Gaijin Sounds and Japan Music Week were major events. If the article is permitted to stay then Japan Music Week will be next. I hope this clears matters up for any moderators sufficiently to put this matter to bed. Thank you for your time.Carnivale2000 (talk) 14:49, 4 March 2010 (UTC)