Talk:Günter Lüling

joke or provocation?

This article claims with a completely straight face that Islam is a Christian sect.

Hello?  Madler  03:39, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

No joke nor provocation. This is Lüling's thesis, it's serious scholarship; you may agree or oppose it. --Ilyacadiz (talk) 17:14, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

Pioneer

Lüling was no pioneer in the study of "early Islamic origins"; he was no Crone or Donner. Please add a source or else I will remove the line. The entire dispute with University of Erlangen has been fabricated and (effectively) stands sourced to his own narrative. TrangaBellam (talk) 15:31, 12 January 2022 (UTC)

I will be starting my rewrite based on Tamer (2019). All help is welcome. TrangaBellam (talk) 16:42, 8 February 2022 (UTC)

Actually while Crone taught in Oxford in 1977 it was at a junior level and it was not until the 1990s in Cambridge she became a world authority. She then came under a similar attack as Lulling when she started to mention controversial topics in Islamic studies and got out of the UK because of this and went to Princeton ( according to Dr Jay Smith one of her former students who started pioneering her research at speakers corner in London) Isaw (talk) 12:29, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

Pioneer as you are no doubt aware means first to visit a region. Patricia Crone may have been more widely published and known ( which is no surprise since based on his PhD Lulling was censired by academia) but Lulling published his thesis in 1970 and Crone was not teaching in University in the UK until 1977. So in that sense of the actual meaning of the word ' pioneer' Luling was a pioneer in comparison to Crone. One could simply say he preceeded and predated Crone and made points which were original to him not to her. Crone later cast doubt on the existence of an ancient mecca that is true and I'm don't know if that is original to her but she certainly produced much research on it. Isaw (talk) 12:23, 25 March 2024 (UTC)