Talk:Gül Mosque

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'Gül Mosque' mixes Turkish and English

The page name is half-Turkish (Gül) and half-English (Mosque). This is so for many of the pages about Turkish buildings. Ideally it should be either Gül Cami (Turkish) or Rose Mosque (English). This also affects other pages - for example, Boğaziçi (Turkish) University (English) instead of either Boğaziçi Üniversitesi (Turkish) or Bosphorus University (English). Presumably this is something that has been deemed easiest for users...? Ealinggirl1954 (talk) 20:48, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

I would say easiest for readers. :-) "Mosque" identifies the object category, "Gül" is the native name. In the scientific literature, this "mixed" convention is used for example by Semavi Eyice. "Gül Camii" sounds maybe better for us who know some Turkish, but doubt that the average wikipedia reader knows what a Cami is. BTW, there are hundreds of articles whose page name is "Church of X" where X is the native name (Italian, Spanish, etc.) of the church's saint. "Mosque of the rose" is the English translation, but it is hardly used in the scientific literature. Another reason for not using translated names is that you don't know how far you can go. What should we do with "Eski Imaret Mosque"? Should we name the page "Mosque of the old soup kitchen"? ;-) Alex2006 (talk) 18:57, 24 August 2022 (UTC)

Cross in square and Greek cross

• Cross-in-square, as the words say, is a square plan with an inscribed cross (with equal arms, that is Greek) which from the outside looks like a box.

• A Greek cross plan is a cruciform plan where the cross arms have equal length, and which are visible from outside. There is no box around the cross.

As you can see from the pictures in the article, Gül mosque from the outside looks rectangular (except the apses and minor features). The Cross-in-square article gives some examples and a plan.

Greek cross plan of St. Peter's by Michelangelo

An example of a Greek cross plan church is Santa Maria della Consolazione in Todi by Bramante, or Michelangelo's first plan of Saint Peter's. Both have a cruciform plan with equal arms. In the byzantine architecture, the Church of the Holy Apostles in Constantinople had a central (Greek) cross plan too. Alex2006 (talk) 07:43, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

Agreed. Johnbod (talk) 13:39, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

Although such references are cited, they should be leveled as varying features within a general plan often derived from a Greek cross and its variations, citing the British Encyclopedia, church architecture page.

" In Constantinople, Anatolia, and eastern Europe, where the Orthodox church flourished, a plan known as the Greek cross dominated ecclesiastical building. In contrast to the long, timber-roofed nave crossed at one end by a shorter transept, Eastern churches had four wings of equal size projecting from a central, square, domed crossing area. A notable example is Hagia Sophia (6th century AD) in Constantinople (modern Istanbul)."

Despite being a hybrid between Christian basilicas and proto-vaulted churches whose plan appears to form a rectangle given the width of the vaults, the plan and design were those of a Greek cross and on many occasions it is leveled as such too. It is for the same reasons that Hosios Loukas monastery and the monastery at Daphni that such plans are referred as Greek crosses, even so, with individual variations of their own. Pablo1355 (talk) 02:12, 24 September 2022 (UTC)

Stop! I just found that Müller-Wiener and Mamboury define the church as respectively as "Kreuzkuppelkirche" and "Cross-Domed". What if we use "Cross-domed"? Alex2006 (talk) 17:18, 31 October 2022 (UTC)