Talk:Friedel Sellschop

Copyright?

Dear FisherQueen (Talk) 19:10, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

I guess its you who took my wikipedia page away.

I am not exactly sure why ... so please provide me with more information.

I believe I was the primary author all the obituary material on Fridel Sellschop that I am aware of. So I gues I must be one of the copyright holders.

Even then, I still wrote the Friedel Sellschop page changing a lot of the materail I had previously used.

I would like to have this page, so it would be good to discuss this issue further to see how it can be resolved. Therefore, I would appreciate it if you could let me know exactly where the problems lie.

Thanks Regards Simon Simon.connell 20:52, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

If you were the author of the obituary, you may or may not hold the copyright- does it belong to the newspaper/magazine where it was originally published? The version I found gave credit to a newspaper; I can't remember which one, and of course the article isn't visible right now.

I left a message on your talk page explaining the procedure for assigning the rights to Wikipedia- I've never done it before, so the links in that message are going to tell you a lot more than I can... it is possible for an admin to undelete it if you have the legal ability to allow Wikipedia publication rights for it. Wikipedia gives free use of its materials to anyone who wants to use them, so we have to be very careful about violating anyone's intellectual property rights.

I wasn't familiar with Sellschop's work until I happened upon this article, and found it really interesting- I agree that there ought to be an article about him, and I appreciate your creating this one. If you don't have the legal rights over the article, you might still decide to write a new article based on your knowledge and sources, if you like. -FisherQueen (Talk) 21:15, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Dear FisherQueen,

OK .... I was asked to author several obituaries for Friedel. They are probabaly all rather similar, as its really hard to write every sentence very different several times. Anyway, thanks for your comments about Friedel. The www-page you found was probably the one already (external) linked in the page of the Wikipedia article on the University of the Witwatersrand (http://www.src.wits.ac.za/groups/jpfs/). That was a page I wrote as well .... and it is on the www-site of our institute, but I dont think we have any active link to it anymore, as this was some time ago, and new managers have changed the www-site a lot. I think a search engine may still find that page, and that may be how it got into the Wikipedia article. Back in 2002, I got a verbal OK from the newspaper to use some of the material I gave them for the obituary on our institute www-page. Apart from changing things a lot, and putting in more material, I also made sure to use a photo from my archive which I dont think has been published before. I was trying to make an article more like a history and less like an obituary. I guess it cant have been a very large overlap with the original article. I was wondering if you could let me know if you have a tool that tells when two texts are too similar. If I knew what to change that would help me write something completely new. Reading your page is rather intimidating. I dont think I could easily write to your standards ... I did enjoy the short look I got at how you modified my Friedel Sellschop article. I guess at some stage we will manage to get something that can be published on the wikipedia. I shall look forwad to another "talk" from you and in the meantime, try to understand the material you have directed me too.

Regards Simon Simon.connell 22:53, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

From what I recall, large sections of the Wiki article were identical, word for word, to the first source I found. I didn't use any special tool- I just looked up his name to see if I could find any more interesting information to add, and there it was, almost the first hit. I think the copyright policies are intimidating, too- but US copyright law is frighteningly complicated. The trick is going to be to have a completely new article, not one that's a version of something existing. Give me an hour to see if I can get something started... at least a short stub to work from... -FisherQueen (Talk) 23:02, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

By the way- I'm starting to fill in the blanks based on the resources I have access to, but I recognize that you know far more- and probably have access to more resources, too. Please feel free to change anything you like; nobody owns a Wikipedia article. -FisherQueen (Talk) 23:23, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Dear FisherQueen, I also tried a search on "Friedel Sellschop", and I saw the link http://www.src.wits.ac.za/groups/jpfs/jpfs-mem.html This is the one I spoke of, which I started from. I just mailed Chris Barron at the Sunday Times, and I formerly asked him if he can give the required permission in terms of the links you gave me. I really appreciate what you are doing ..... It got late here in South Africa now .... I will look again in the morning. Thanks .. Regards Simon Simon.connell 23:43, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Don't worry about the permissions. We'll have more fun, and come up with a better article, if we build it from a variety of sources, anyway. An encyclopedia article shouldn't read like an obituary, right? -FisherQueen (Talk) 23:57, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

That's a pretty good start, don't you think?

I've made a start on the article, and I'm going to call it a night for now. Wikipedia writing isn't that much different from any other research writing- we just keep to the verifiable facts and cite our sources. I'll check back in to see if there's more I can do to help. I don't know much about physics, so I was working from the sources I could find, and I'm sure there's a lot that needs fixing and clarifying. There were a few specific areas where I think it still needs work...

• In the infobox, would we correctly describe his nationality as Namibian, or South African?
• I could find very little information about the exact nature of his diamond research. What were his most significant contributions to this field?
• I know he wrote more than 300 articles, but a list of 5 or 10 of the most influential/significant ones would fit in really well.
• If the university (I gather that's where you are?) will release the rights to a good photo to us, that would be fabulous.

And of course, we'll need to clean up the style so it reads better- I think my start is pretty choppy. I'm glad to help with coding and formatting, too, since I have a small amount of experience in those areas. If it's helpful, I've been looking at the article on Richard Feynman as an example of what a good article on a scientist might look like... -FisherQueen (Talk) 00:17, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Irrelevant personal comment

I was just reading the article about Wits. That sounds like an amazing university... if that's where you are, then I'm deeply jealous. -FisherQueen (Talk) 00:57, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

New page

Dear FisherQueen. Thanks .... I have also made some inputs now. Yes .... I am a fan of South Africa, our University, and inded our City - Johannesburg. Lots of energy and one feels part of the action, as its a country in the process of change and development. By the way, an important source was the CV and Publication List of Friedel ..... not sure how to ref this. Simon.connell 16:06, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

I love what you've done with the article! I'm not sure how to reference a CV and publication list, either- let me see if I can dig it up or find an example of another article that's used them.

I've been a big fan of South Africa since about four months ago. I hope the United States has the integrity to follow your country's lead some day... until then, I'm happy to lend any reasonable amount of help I can to a South African. -FisherQueen (Talk) 16:35, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

If I'm reading Help:Footnotes correctly, we should be able to create a more generic footnote using something like <ref name="CB">Sellschop, Friedel. Curriculum Vitae, 1984.</ref>. Then you can just add whatever relevant information to the footnote. I think that'll work, anyway. -FisherQueen (Talk) 16:50, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Dear FisherQueen

I have learnt a lot from you, and its been a pleasure. You have really added tremendoues value, and watching how you work to develop the Wikipedia and insist on standards, I can see why the Wikipedia is as good as it is. I made the last ref change ... and I expect that my colleagues will make some suggestions too in due course. Many thanks.

Dr. Connell, I've enjoyed working with you. Getting to collaborate with a physicist from the other side of the world to make a good article and learn something new in the process... it's why I like Wikipedia so much. Feel free to leave a message on my talk page if you need help in the future. -FisherQueen (Talk) 20:08, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

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