Talk:Fremantle Arts Centre (organisation)

Requested move 1 September 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) – MaterialWorks 16:41, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

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Fremantle Arts Centre (organisation) → Fremantle Arts Centre – The name Fremantle Arts Centre is primarily used in sources to report on the current organisation, its administration, funding, and events and other activities. It is the WP:COMMONNAME of the organisation. The building has been known by multiple names, and has a different official name in its Heritage listing. It is not the WP:COMMONNAME of the building. Skyerise (talk) 14:05, 1 September 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose, the building is commonly known as the Fremantle Arts Centre and has been known as such since the early 1970s. The organisation is housed within the building complex however they should be treated as two separate articles. Dan arndt (talk) 14:12, 1 September 2023 (UTC)

  Please provide sources that support that. In particular, please provide a source that uses that name for the building which does not discuss the organisation. Skyerise (talk) 14:29, 1 September 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose I concur with Dan arndt. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 14:30, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose, this page from the City of Fremantle calls both the building and the organisation the Fremantle Arts Centre. Graham87 14:55, 1 September 2023 (UTC)

  @Graham87: are you referring to this line from the link you provided that supports that the building is also known as the arts centre? Sorry I'm unfamiliar with the topic. Housed in a neo-Gothic style building constructed by convicts in 1860 and set in beautiful gardens, FAC is also an important heritage site. When the name refers to a facility or service, such as opening hours, I would consider it to be talking about the organisation instead. Fork99 (talk) 19:21, 1 September 2023 (UTC)

  @Fork99: Yes, especially the bit that says "FAC [not that FAC] is also an important heritage site". Also the listed address is "Fremantle Arts Centre". Graham87 08:15, 2 September 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose, per my comments already stated elsewhere, that the knowledge of the building complex and legal entities or organisation(s) associated with the complex have been known for close to the last 50 years as the 'Freo Arts Centre' for short... JarrahTree 15:10, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose – The building is the centre, and the organisation is obviously named after the building. Furthermore, definition three of "centre" in my dictionary is a building or building complex which houses a number of related specified services: a shopping centre; a sports centre; a medical centre, and none of the others apply (as I interpret them) to the organisation in question here. Going back to first principles, it is the organisation that needs qualification, not the building. Betterkeks (talk) 06:21, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
• oppose the building has been commonly referred to as the Fremantle Arts Centre for the last 40 years, the company has just sat on the name to take advantage of the long used common name for the building, it'll remain the Fremantle Arts Centre long after the company is gone assuming they dont destroy the name first. Gnangarra 06:29, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

digging deeper into company records The Fremantle arts Centre was registered in 2000 by the City of Fremantle[1], Fremantle Press shown in the infobox was only registered as a business in 2007[2] it appears to me that the business leasing the building from the City of Freo gets to adopt the name Fremantle Arts Centre for the duration of the lease only which is the same for Fremantle Markets and other historical places in Fremantle. Given this its the business is a transitory usage and should be disambiguated accordingly more appropriately by the leasing companies name rather than company. Perhaps some business might become significantly note worthy to be have more than a transitory mention in the building article, according WP:NOTDIR Gnangarra 06:41, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

• Comment: If these separate discussions haven't been linked here yet, for further clarity, please also see a related requested move, the discussion below this move request and a relevant WikiProject Australia discussion. Fork99 (talk) 20:16, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Organisation or place?

The article title "Fremantle Arts Centre (organisation)" says the article is about an organisation, but it is categorised as Category:Arts centres in Australia, Category:Music venues in Perth, Western Australia, where "centres" and "venues" are subcategories of physical places. If it's an organisation, it ought not be categorised as a physical place.

(I am aware of the current discussions re naming of this and Museum and Arts Centre, Fremantle, so I'd like some other opinions before I make any changes that might further muddy the waters.)

Mitch Ames (talk) 15:01, 1 September 2023 (UTC)

You are correct. I just copied them from the other article. I'll find the correct categories and fix that. Skyerise (talk) 15:02, 1 September 2023 (UTC)

... And I'm not too sure about "tourist attraction", although there might be merit to a claim that an "attraction" doesn't need to be a physical place. Mitch Ames (talk) 15:04, 1 September 2023 (UTC)

I bet more people go there for the advertised art events than to tour the former Asylum, but I could be wrong about that. Skyerise (talk) 15:21, 1 September 2023 (UTC)

Interesting how the events that are held there are advertised as being held 'at the Fremantle Arts Centre' - which clearly indicates the building as a venue. Not being held by the Fremantle Arts Centre, which is what you expect if the Fremantle Arts Centre was only an organisation. Dan arndt (talk) 05:46, 2 September 2023 (UTC)

I didn’t even know the organisation existed until I looked at this a while ago, but I knew of the building. Betterkeks (talk) 06:24, 2 September 2023 (UTC)

It looks like there might still be a bit of work to do to clearly distinguish between the organisation (the nominal subject of this article) and the place. Eg, currently we have, in Fremantle Arts Centre (organisation):

• "The centre ... features multiple gallery spaces"
• "The centre's outdoor courtyard is a popular venue ..."
• "Beyond its role as an arts venue, the Fremantle Arts Centre is a gathering place ..."

These are all consistent with a building, but not with an organisation. Mitch Ames (talk) 09:42, 2 September 2023 (UTC)