Talk:Fred Merkle

Curse?

It is "generally believed" that the Cubs are cursed? Come on. Sure, I know that it's something people talk about a lot, but I seriously doubt that the typical baseball fan actually believes in a curse. Wikipedia should be more circumspect in its claims about what people "generally believe." 76.170.117.188 (talk) 07:27, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Comments

Please note that I have removed the stub tag from this article without editing it, since it seemed to me to be reasonably complete. Chick Bowen 23:30, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

Does anyone want to discuss the possibility that the Chicago Cubs curse stems from the Merkle incident as much as it does from the Billy Goat curse of 1945? That the Cubs used trickery to steal the 1908 pennant away from the Giants, embarassing young Merkle in the process, and this is why they haven't won a World Series since that year? The curse of the Billy Goat, yes, but what about the Curse of Merkle?

I always thought that would make for a much better "curse" than some tavern owner and his silly goat. The thought of Merkle or better yet McGraw haunting the Cubs all these years is much better than 66.232.72.64 01:39, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Merge Proposal

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Merge Merkle Boner → Fred Merkle - Neither article is rather long and while I'm guessing Merkle was a good player, there is no claim to notability other than the Merkle Boner. All in all, two almost stubs can make the start of one decent article if they are merged together. --Bobblehead ^(rants) 04:41, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

• I'm against this. The player and the event are two different things. 70.222.89.20 07:33, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

It is commonplace for events to be included in the article for the most prominent person in that event. The only time a sub-article is created is when the amount of information related to that event is exceedingly large. As an example, the Ferdinand Magellan article is primarily about his voyages and especially the circumnavigation. For a baseball related example, Bill Buckner's error is on his article and not in an article of its own.--Bobblehead ^(rants) 17:12, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

• I support Bobblehead, for the reasons that he stated.--Epeefleche 00:43, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Force-out rule comment just plain wrong?

I would like the author(s) of this article to back up his/her/their statement that "the rule allowing a force play after a potential game-winning run was not well-known." The sense of the game itself makes this highly unlikely. For example, if this rule was not, in fact, well known, then runners advancing from third base, with two outs, ahead of a put out at first base (the third out, ending the inning) would be permitted to score, and undeservedly so. With two outs, there is no incentive for the runners on base to wait and see the outcome of the batter's swing. They would be off at the batter's making contact. They would be very likely to score, even with the runner put out at first. This would be, to put it mildly, seen as inequitable, and so the rule had been put in place.

So I challenge whomever wrote that line: who says it was not a well-known rule?

C. Laing Lawrence KS —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.45.147.166 (talk) 13:41, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

I don't have references for this, so I won't post it in the article until I do, but I'm fairly certain the history is that Evers had tried this play several weeks prior to the Sept 23 game, and had appealed it to the same ump who worked the Merkle game. At that time Evers was overruled, but it planted the seed for what was to come. Of course players understood the forceout rule, but it was NOT generally recognized that in a clear case of a walk-off hit, all baserunners liable for a forceout did have to touch the next base.

roricka Portland, ME —Preceding unsigned comment added by Roricka (talk • contribs) 04:36, 21 September 2008 (UTC) You are right; the rule was not generally known, nor cared about, on a walk-off hit. It was that little shit Evers trying to get every edge he could by trying to enforce it.

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