Talk:Fraternal birth order and male sexual orientation

Introduction

I wasn't convinced the introduction was a good summarization of the effect, so I wrote one which essentially covers everything important. It is a little long, so perhaps the last paragraph could be trimmed off and moved into overview. I have seen a lot of people dismiss the FBOE as quackery because they aren't aware it only occurs with biological older brothers. I think an introduction which covers the main points as to why it's thought to be a biological mechanism is important. Let me know if we can improve/trim this or if it's adequate in some form. I put it in a sandbox here. Happy for you to duplicate the paragraph in the sandbox, make changes, and then comment here which changes you made and why, or, just leave the comments here. Sxologist (talk) 02:14, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

Okay, I made this edit in the sandbox. Actually, I see now you didn't invite me to do that specifically, but I have done that in a past collaboration with another editor. You can of course undo my edit and work on it from there if you want. Basically, I don't think we need to go into detail on how the mechanism works in the lead; that sort of thing is article body content. I also noticed that some of the content there does not exist yet in the article body here; that content should also be added to the body, per WP:LEADFOLLOWSBODY. (Other articles are not always good about following "lead follows body", but they should). Otherwise, it looks good to me. Crossroads ^-talk- 04:57, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

That's totally fine – striking it is a good start. I *might* add a small extension on the last sentence about sexual differentiation of brain, and it should be pretty easy to fit in there. Agree on body of text. The body is a bit out of date and needs replacing with secondary sources. I'll wait and see what other editors say. Sxologist (talk) 05:38, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

I have published a version two which is more simple but still captures the antigen associated. Sxologist (talk) 07:59, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

Regarding this? I'll leave it to you two. At least for now. Flyer22 Frozen (talk) 03:57, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

Looks good to me. Thanks. Crossroads ^-talk- 05:30, 9 July 2020 (UTC)

Malicious edits

There's a user going through and changing the gender and numbers related to the study this page covers. 2600:1700:84E9:1510:9565:8ECC:157B:FB49 (talk) 16:40, 3 April 2022 (UTC)

Male Asexual FBOE

There's an equivalent fraternal birth order effect for asexuality.

Biological Markers of Asexuality: Handedness, Birth Order, and Finger Length Ratios in Self-identified Asexual Men and Women Morag A. Yule • Lori A. Brotto • Boris B. Gorzalka

10.1007/s10508-013-0175-0

Could there be a section on this? DotCoder (talk) 07:10, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

It could be mentioned, a better source would be this review here which states:

"There is evidence that mutations in NLGN4X and NLGN4Y are linked to autism spectrum conditions (Jamain et al., 2003; Ross et al., 2015) and such conditions may be elevated in asexual people (e.g., Gilmour et al., 2012). Moreover, there is some evidence that an FBOE occurs in asexual men (Yule et al., 2014). Thus, NLGN4X/Y may affect neurological functioning associated with, broadly, the forming of social connections to others, including sexual/romantic ones" Zenomonoz (talk) 04:23, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Seminar in Human Sexuality

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 21 August 2023 and 4 December 2023. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Plantbasederick (article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by Zy175311460 (talk) 23:21, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

Possibly relevant

A 2023 study criticizing previous findings: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10441532/ "The fraternal birth-order effect as a statistical artefact: convergent evidence from probability calculus, simulated data, and multiverse meta-analysis"

(I am in no position to evaluate the paper. I just Googled it because of a strip in a webcomic...) 47.18.39.208 (talk) 23:04, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

I know the study well. It would be best to wait until it is covered in a secondary academic source. There have been studies published since which appear to continue to support the effect. Zenomonoz (talk) 23:20, 27 February 2024 (UTC)