Talk:Fran (Final Fantasy)

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

This review is transcluded from Talk:Fran (Final Fantasy)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Lee Vilenski (talk · contribs) 08:20, 13 September 2019 (UTC)

Hello, I am planning on reviewing this article for GA Status, over the next couple of days. Thank you for nominating the article for GA status. I hope I will learn some new information, and that my feedback is helpful.

If nominators or editors could refrain from updating the particular section that I am updating until it is complete, I would appreciate it to remove a edit conflict. Please address concerns in the section that has been completed above (If I've raised concerns up to references, feel free to comment on things like the lede.)

I generally provide an overview of things I read through the article on a first glance. Then do a thorough sweep of the article after the feedback is addressed. After this, I will present the pass/failure. I will use strikethrough tags when concerns are met. Even if something is obvious why my concern is met, please leave a message as courtesy.

Best of luck! you can also use the {{done}} tag to state when something is addressed. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)}

Please let me know after the review is done, if you were happy with the review! Obviously this is regarding the article's quality, however, I want to be happy and civil to all, so let me know if I have done a good job, regardless of the article's outcome.

Immediate Failures

• It is a long way from meeting any one of the six good article criteria - Y Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 11:33, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
• It contains copyright infringements - N - Copyvio detector isn't happy, I'll have to take a deeper look. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 11:33, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
  • It appears that it is due to someone taking text from the Characters of FF12 article. - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 17:59, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
• It has, or needs, cleanup banners that are unquestionably still valid. These include{{cleanup}}, {{POV}}, {{unreferenced}} or large numbers of {{citation needed}}, {{clarify}}, or similar tags. (See also {{QF-tags}}). - Y Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 11:33, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
• It is not stable due to edit warring on the page.- Y Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 11:33, 18 September 2019 (UTC)

Links

Prose

Lede

• Fran (フラン Furan) - needs explanation. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 11:39, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Fixed. - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 18:09, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
• Could do with a second sentence to describe her; as jumping from "she's a character" to "she appears in this game" feels like it jumps a void Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 11:39, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Fixed. - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 18:09, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
• Her English version took inspiration from Icelandic singer Bjork, which left Square Enix skeptical but eventually sated with their explanations. - I don't know what this means. What "version" is this, the character model is the same, is it not? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 11:39, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Fixed. - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 18:09, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
• has been called attractive - I don't think this should be in the lede. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 11:39, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Fixed. - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 18:09, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
• She is considered an example of a non-white female character in video games - this doesn't mean anything. Anything is an example. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 11:39, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
  • I clarified to include the sentiment that black women are rare in games. - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 18:09, 18 September 2019 (UTC)

Concept and creation

• Needs expansion. Couldn't promote this like this, there's very little information on the actual creation, or creation, but focuses on voice artistry instead. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 12:02, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Added some, but outside of what was already there, it is woefully general of her character, talking instead of the collective cast's outfits and the decision to feature humanoid races. - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 18:24, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
• One big issue is dates here. Outside of "she appears in FFXII", there is no information as to when she was created, or much about what they were attempting to create.
  • Unfortunately I can't really find any information on their specific goals with Fran or when she was made. - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 18:24, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Could we add at least when the game was released/began development? It's floating in time without. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:59, 21 September 2019 (UTC)
    • Added the development span as well as her writer. - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 23:51, 22 September 2019 (UTC)
• No information on what Fran is? The only mention is "but the staff was able to convince them by explaining that they were trying a new take on her Viera race." but to a regular reader, Viera means nothing, and it hasn't been established what it is, that she is one, or what a race is in a video game character.
  • Fixed. - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 18:24, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
• In the Japanese version, she spoke in a "straightforward, slightly gruff" fashion. - Fran didn't speak, the voice actress did. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 12:02, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Fixed. - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 18:24, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
• localize Fran, localizer Alexander O. Smith - duplicate word Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 12:02, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Fixed. - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 18:24, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
• took inspiration in his writing from Icelandic singer Bjork - I think this needs explaination. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 12:02, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Not sure how exactly to address it; in the link, Smith notes that he would have liked to cast Bjork, and that they were touchstones for the casting process. - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 18:24, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
    • Could we mention/quote this? Seems quite interesting. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:59, 21 September 2019 (UTC)
      • Implemented that into the prose. - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 23:51, 22 September 2019 (UTC)
• other protagonists - Isn't Vaan the protagonist? Or the party. I'm not sure we can make out like all eight party members are protagonists. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 12:02, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Fixed. - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 18:24, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
• Smith identified Fran as one of his favorite characters to write due to her accent. - We should say what the accent is. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 12:02, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Fixed. - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 18:24, 18 September 2019 (UTC)

Appearances

• Fran first appears in the video game Final Fantasy XII. - Almost word-for-word copy of the first subsection. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 12:02, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Fixed. - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 18:50, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
• Why is Viera linked here, but not earlier? I feel a lot of the "appearances" should be in the earlier section. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 12:02, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Fixed. - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 18:50, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
• mechanic to the Strahl, and Balthier's copilot - this means nothing to a regular reader. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 12:02, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Fixed. - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 18:50, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
• Like all Viera - we haven't commented what a Viera is... We can't say like this. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 12:02, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Fixed. - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 18:50, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
• magical Mist that permeates Ivalice - So, Mist and Ivalice are two proper nouns, that haven't been brought up until this point. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 12:02, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Fixed. - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 18:50, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
• Like all Viera, she is exceptionally sensitive to the magical Mist that permeates Ivalice, which can send her into a rage. When the party reaches Giruvegan, she can detect the Mist nearby has cooled and is less intense. - this seems very irrelevant. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 12:02, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
  • The scene is discussed in Reception, so I figured it important to mention. - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 18:50, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
• She is the oldest of all the characters, Viera being long-lived, but still appears youthful - There's also a tense issue here. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 12:02, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Fixed. - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 18:50, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
• other viera - Viera is a proper noun. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 12:02, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Fixed. - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 18:50, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
• especially her elder sister Jote, - is the age important?
  • Fixed. - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 18:50, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
• commune with the Wood. - another proper noun not explained. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 12:02, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Fixed. - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 00:09, 23 September 2019 (UTC)
• The whole second paragraph makes no sense to someone who hasn't played the game Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 12:02, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Fixed. - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 00:09, 23 September 2019 (UTC)
• She later appears in the Nintendo DS sequel Final Fantasy XII: Revenant Wings alongside Balthier. She also appears as a playable character in Itadaki Street Portable - expansion needed. Wasn't there also some different versions of FFXII?? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 12:02, 18 September 2019 (UTC)

Reception

• She is credited with popularizing the Viera race. - as it's one source Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 12:07, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Fixed. - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 18:55, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
• Could this section also be expanded? It seems to rush through the sourcing. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 12:07, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
  • I'm not really sure of more sources I could find; I could try and look if I can separate certain sources where appropriate, but I'm not familiar with other sources off the top of my head. - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 18:55, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
    • I'm not really looking for more sources, just a little bit more on what the current sources say. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:00, 21 September 2019 (UTC)
      • Oh, okay. Sorry I haven't gotten to the other points as quickly, been busy IRL. Will get to these as soon as I can. - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 20:53, 21 September 2019 (UTC)
        • No worries, just let me know when you are happy for me to check it through again. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:25, 23 September 2019 (UTC)
• Mattie Brice discussed how her accent is meant to differentiate her from the rest of the cast - We need to expand this. Summarize what she says, not just give a blurb. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 12:07, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Elaborated further. - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 18:59, 18 September 2019 (UTC)

Notes & References

GA Review

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (reference section): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free content have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

Comments

• Automated note - If you fancy returning the favour, I have outstanding GA nominations that require reviewing at WP:GAN. I'd be very grateful if you were to complete one of these, however it's definately not manditory. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)}
• Might I suggest adding this to Fran? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 11:32, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
• Quite a few issues with this one. Lots need expansion, and lots need to be re-written out of universe. Put on hold for you to address. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 12:08, 18 September 2019 (UTC)

WIll finish up on this tomorrow. - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 03:18, 25 September 2019 (UTC)

Sorry about the wait, @Lee Vilenski:. I think it is ready for a re-review. - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 18:17, 27 September 2019 (UTC)

Don't worry about the misspelling - Vilenski is a completely made up name. I'll try and get to this in the next couple days.Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 19:31, 27 September 2019 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.