Talk:Formby

Light House

Anyone got information about Formby Light House? Anappleadaykeepsthedocaway (talk) 01:44, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Some information here: http://www.formbycivicsociety.org.uk/2010%2002%20formbylighthouse.html Formby1 (talk) 16:59, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

WW2

Would be good to add more about Formby's history with WW2.

Discussion Page

Cleaned up this section with headers... Hope other users are ok with this? Anappleadaykeepsthedocaway (talk) 20:36, 19 September 2008 (UTC) Good work but could you do your edits in one go? Makes it easier to keep track of the changes. EarthRise (talk) 19:26, 24 September 2008 (UTC) Thanks, EarthRise. Yep will do. Had a problem with my computer when I was updating thanks to my firewall. Fixed now, so should be all systems go! Anappleadaykeepsthedocaway (talk) 01:28, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

References

The ref has been removed or not added to this section. I am going to try and add some. Also spotted ref 6 is to "Formby Times". Edition No. and date would help. Can any other users help? Anappleadaykeepsthedocaway (talk) 20:33, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Article update

Should be able to get some new photos of Formby, and get this to WP:FA status.... well, I don't live that far from the town! --Solumeiras (talk) 13:09, 1 February 2008 (UTC) Insert non-formatted text here

History Questions

Shaftesbury House, Ravens Meols Lane, Formby in 1918 was a private lunatice asylum run by Dr Stanley A Gill , Dr Eustace Stanley Hayes Gill and Mrs Violet Florence Dynham Gill. What happened to it after 1918??? What houses are there now?? Any one know?

    —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.230.132.235 (talk) 17:54, 19 July 2010 (UTC) 

The house was demolished sometime after I left Formby in 1965- don't know when but I think I first noticed this on a return in the early 1980's. As I recall, it has been replaced by several bungalows with their own internal road67.230.135.212 (talk) 20:07, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

"Below sea level"

The article claims this, but is it true? Google Latitude hasn't reported any part of Formby I've been to as being of 'negative' altitude. Is there any justification for this statement?

After doing some research on the Ordinance Survey maps and topographic-map.com, the lowest point within Formby is 5.77 meters above sea level (south end of Liverpool road). I don't know if there were parts of Formby in the past that were below sea level in the past, but the OS benchmarks were last verified accurate in 1960, the 'myth' must have started before then. Leeraven172 (talk) 13:02, 8 July 2018 (UTC)

Governance

Correction is needed in that for some of the time Formby was in the parliamentary constituency of Ormskirk with its MP being Douglas Glover (Conservative). This was certainly the case in 1965 and earlier.

Suburb or Dormitory town?

As Formby is not contiguous with Liverpool and is part of Sefton (formerly being an Urban District in Lancashire), I class it as a dormitory town. A suburb has closer connection with the town/city of which it is a suburb. Childwall is a suburb of Liverpool. Being within commuting distance would make Milton Keynes a suburb of London, or Southport a suburb of Manchester, by the anonymous poster 86.30.191.116's reckoning. I am calling for comments, please, from others interested in Formby. Peridon (talk) 15:19, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

As of 1974 Formby is currently in merseyside

Peridon, are you from Formby? If you are then you would understand that the vast majority of the residents are either originally from Liverpool themselves and have moved to Formby, or are the descendants of said people. The examples of Milton Keynes and Southport are both ridiculous and irrelevant. Formby is within the Liverpool post town, if you are from Formby you would notice that most of the time the addresses on the letters will just say Liverpool. Go into any pub, shop etc you will notice that the accent is a softer version of Liverpool's, people support the Liverpool football teams, and generally feel a strong connection to the city. Put someone with no knowledge of the area into a Formby pub and they would tell you they are in Liverpool. You are correct about Formby being in Sefton, a controversial borough that puts Bootle in with Southport and one that people feel no connection to. Formby has only grown to its present size because of its dependence and connection to Liverpool. If you really are a Formby resident, then you will realise that my points are valid. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.30.191.116 (talk) 10:49, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

Peridon, in the area that is how it is considered. A suburb since it lies within the liverpool city region. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.42.216.67 (talk) 19:31, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

The Liverpool City Region is a pointless re-iteration of what is already Merseyside and the Mersey Partnership. The Liverpool City region is not a legislative area, or used for any official purpose other than within literature relating to the economic enterprise partnerships and intra-government-agency partnerships. It does not define "suburbs" in any shape or form, and it is misleading to assert that it holds any value with regards to the boundaries of Liverpool itself (by that twisted logic even St Helens is a suburb of Liverpool).

Liverpool is a large postal city, and a large economic base - however neither of those factors are relevant in assigning the correct and accurate legislative and political boundaries. Personal opinion and local sentiment are irrelevant. Reliance on unreferenced touristnet.net for verification of Formby being a Liverpool suburb is wholly misleading and is a blatant attempt to co-opt Formby.

Formby is neither a district nor a ward of Liverpool. Historically Formby has fallen within the Lancashire boundary, Ormskirk District, its own Urban District, Walton on the Hill Civil Parish, and Sefton - not Liverpool. Koncorde (talk) 17:35, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

Coming back to a point above about post codes - Rufford and Mawdesley are in the Liverpool postcode area. Aberystwyth is on a Shrewsbury code. Postcodes are purely a postal delivery convenience and have no relation to either geography or economic area - parts of Trafford Borough (which directly adjoins Manchester and forms a conurbation with it) have WA postcodes. In relation to a remark by someone (possibly in an edit summary), Formby has never been part of Southport, except to the extent that Ainsdale was an outlying part of Formby until it was taken over by Birkdale (which was then taken over by Southport). I should point out that when Formby was in Lancashire, so was Liverpool. And that Southport's predecessors along with Formby and Liverpool were all once part of West Derby, whose boundary with Leyland gave its name to Hundred End. As to the origins of the inhabitants - is Skelmersdale a suburb of Liverpool? Or Ellesmere Port or Runcorn? Peridon (talk) 18:42, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

Pointless re-iteration? Merseyside barely exists in anything but name, as the boroughs are effectively unitary authorities. However it does still exist, as does the Liverpool City Region, so there is no good reason to continue deleting it from the article.

Of course local sentiment is important, and sometimes common sense has to prevail. Is Wikipedia a dictatorship?! Why should your opinion of what is correct take precedence over mine? Plenty of people do have the opinion that Formby is a Liverpool suburb, not just Formby residents, but in both the rest Merseyside and nationwide. I accept that some people do not hold this belief, hence the wording of 'generally considered'. As I have already stated, suburb simply means residential area on the edge of an urban area, regardless of administrative boundaries and can be separated by some open space. So by definition it ticks all the boxes.

Boundaries change over time, as do opinions. Many believe that the City of Liverpool boundaries are outdated, and that debate has been done to death on countless forum sites. The Port of Liverpool is located within Sefton borough. Should it change its name to Port of Sefton? But what is Sefton? A council that provides services yes, but a place that makes sense as a borough and a place that people feel attachment or affinity to, no. The same can be said for Knowsley. That is why local sentiment is important, people who feel connected by a shared identity.

I am perfectly aware of how post codes and post towns work, and again this is a point where common sense has to prevail. The Liverpool post town covers what the vast majority of people would agree should be defined as Greater Liverpool. I.e. The area in which most people would say they live in Liverpool. Skem, Ellesmere Port, St Helens and Runcorn are not suburbs as they have their own industry, whereas Formby is essentially just houses, a suburban environment.

We are all adults here, and this constant tit for tat revert war is ridiculous. I shall refrain from simply reverting it back to my version for now, and perhaps we can find a version that we can all agree upon. I don't think the new paragraph in the introduction belongs there, whilst historically accurate, it would be better suited to the Governance section. Primarni (talk) 20:33, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

I feel you answer your own issue. Merseyside exists. Hence it's a pointless re-iteration. It establishes no borders. It defines no towns or suburbs, It is not an area that exists legally. It is a purely bureaucratic term related to local government co-ordination.

The Liverpool City Region isn't what it is being made out to be, and in placing it within the lede it is intentionally or not confusing the subject by incorrectly suggestiong that Formby is within Liverpool. It isn't. It is in Sefton. It has never been in Liverpool, and until Liverpool spreads north a fair few miles it likely wont be in Liverpool for the forseeable future.

The article has to be based upon facts. There are no facts supporting Formby in Liverpool apart from the shaky "postcode" assertion others have made, and personal opinion. If you can find actual published references related to the debate regarding Formby being in Liverpool or not, then they can be included in the article - but they should not have undue prominence and should be included within the relevant section (or have a new one created).

To deal with individual concerns:

• People that identify locally with a particular concept is lovely. But it doesn't mean anything. There are lots of people that still call St Helens "Lancashire". And many that dispute the idea that towns now fall within Greater Manchester. Wikipedia doesn't care - it looks at verifiability.
• The Port of Liverpool is a historical name. There are many instances of historical names outliving those objects that were built around them.
• The "majority of people" do not necessarily have to be right.
• That Formby doesn't have an industry should not somehow make it a part of a city that does. Formby, like hundreds of towns and villages in the Merseyside region, are towns and villages in their own right without having to be suburbs of a particular area.
• You suggest Knowsley and Sefton lack identity. So what? We're not on about where people identify themselves as being from but what is legally observed.

As for the new stuff in the intro. Having the statement "Historically within Lancashire" didn't make much sense without actual background. It is unfortunately a statement made in too many Merseyside articles without consideration as to the relevance and or cohesion. I will happily accept any amendment, so long as any discussion of "Liverpool" is left to the relevant sections and not thrust into the lede.Koncorde (talk) 21:43, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

On the point of "public opinion" related to Formby being in Liverpool - I hope these viewpoints are also considered with equal weight when asserting the "majority": [1][2] Koncorde (talk) 22:20, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

It probably doesn't help much, but I'm from Childwall, Liverpool and moved to Formby, Merseyside, in 1996. I do not consider Formby part of Liverpool and have found no evidence to say otherwise. Post codes are erratic and mean little - they're for the benefit of the Post Office. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Smervers (talk • contribs) 19:14, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

The document linked by Primarni makes various statements related to the economic background[3]. For this he amended a sentence referencing Formby as a commuter town. The actual content of the piece is far more vague, not least it only specifically refers to Formby twice and on both occasions groups it with the northern parts of Sefton (i.e. Southport).

Sefton

Overall, Sefton (with a population of just fewer than 300,000) is ‘dependent’ on Liverpool for employment. 26.2% of Sefton’s working residents commute into Liverpool, whereas only 4.2% commute back from Liverpool to work in Sefton. Of those people who commute into Liverpool to work, a relatively high proportion work in public administration or in financial services. However, there is a clear geographical division between the southern part of the borough, which is close physically and in character to Liverpool, and the northern towns around Southport. The northern part of the borough has natural and physical assets of national significance. Southport is a vibrant ‘classic’ seaside resort with local employment opportunities and a developing entrepreneurial culture. Along with Formby, it is at the centre of the ‘golfing’ economy, with famous courses such as the Royal Birkdale. It is also a commuting base for West Lancashire as well as for Liverpool. However, less than 10% of residents from northern wards such as Birkdale, Kew and Northwood commute to Liverpool.

By contrast, in southern wards like Blundell Sands and Netherton more than 30% of residents commute to the city. The centre of the present day operational docks is located in Bootle, rather than in Liverpool and this is where there are expectations that Peel Ports will invest in new deep water dock facilities over the next few years. The A5036 going out from the docks in Bootle to the M57 provides a strategically important investment corridor for logistics operations and employment opportunities.

The south is also characterised by a failing housing market with much of the housing having been built before 1919 to serve the population working in the docks. This is why Sefton has combined with the Wirral and Liverpool to form the New Heartlands Housing Market Area. Despite being physically close to the city centre, few people from this area appear to work there. Rather, many of the jobs go to the more affluent residents from Crosby and Formby, which act as dormitories to Liverpool and Bootle.

I have as a result of the overall vague element of the commuter percentage that does not specifically reference Formby with a % granted them a sentence that places them between the two values in the piece. However I would prefer to see this actually formally cited.

This article would reinforce the original statement by Peridon to describe Formby as a "Dormitory Town" rather than a Commuter town.Koncorde (talk) 21:07, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

I really didn't think that my latest edit would be considered contentious. I took on board your points, followed the rules and found reputable sources to back it up, so I don't see the problem. The work foundation article grouped Formby with Southport purely for the golfing economy, nothing more. If you would look to Figure 2.2 on page 15, the area where Formby is located is valued at 20%-50% commuting to Liverpool, a higher value than Southport, St Helens and most of Wirral. Also, as you pointed out, it states that Formby acts as a dormitory to Liverpool. A dormitory town is just another name for a commuter town, they're the same thing! The 'Dormitory Town' link in the heading of this discussion section re-directs to 'Commuter Town'. ("Many commuter towns act as suburbs of a nearby metropolis..." reinforcing my original point, but lets not get into that again). The Sefton Council article is naturally more location specific, more accurately categorising Formby as central Sefton, and also states that Formby functions as a commuter settlement. There are a lot more sources also labelling Formby as a commuter town for Liverpool, its a fact, so can we please bring this chapter to a close. Primarni (talk) 12:48, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

I have to apologise, I actually misread an original comments and for some reason read one thing whilst thinking another. The town is a commuter town as per the document (or Dormitary Town as used within it), however the actual value of those that commute does not make it "of" or "for" Liverpool exclusively. If between 10 and 30% commute to Liverpool, where do the rest go? The current wording is possessive in suggesting Formby exists for Liverpool. Koncorde (talk) 16:04, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

Fig 2.2 on the work foundation article puts the figure at a minimum of 20%, nevertheless I understand your point. How would you suggest it should be worded? "The modern town is affluent and functions/acts as a commuter town to Liverpool"? Primarni (talk) 18:20, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

I could live with that - or dormitory, or commuter/dormitory (or vice versa...). Quite a lot will commute to Southport, Bootle or Crosby, where there are a fair number of offices and schools, or other places. I know of someone who even commuted to Chorley for many years (until he left his wife and moved out to a place nearer his work). Peridon (talk) 19:45, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

How about "The modern town is affluent with high owner-occupation and car ownership"? The relevant levels of commuting is an economic discussion thing, and not really a defining feature of the town itself. Who honestly says "Oh Formby, y'know, the commuter town". The fact that it is a commuter town to many places including Liverpool (but not solely Liverpool) can be discussed in the relevant section with reference to the articles where it can be more accurate and speak of actual volumes / percentages etc. Koncorde (talk) 20:42, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

Nobody is likely to mention that in a conversation, but it is still a fact, and whilst perhaps not quite being a defining feature, I feel it is an important function of the modern town, and thus deserves a small mention in the introduction. I fully accept that not everybody in Formby commutes to Liverpool, but a substantial number do, (backed up by the sources) and it would be impractical to list every possible destination. I think I've shown that I'm prepared to compromise, and will do so further by going with Peridon's suggestion. I really do struggle to distinguish between 'commuter' and 'dormitory', and believe commuter to be the more common term, nevertheless I'll put it as dormitory and hopefully we can draw a line under this discussion. Life's too short gents! Primarni (talk) 11:50, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

So if an alternative source says 35% commute to St Helens, do we put that in the lead instead? Or do we just state that many people commute (as they do across the entire of Merseyside) and let the Economic section of the article deal with the ins and outs of where exactly people commute to and from?

I appreciate your attempt to compromise, but the lead is still attempting (for me) to establish something that isn't in and of itself shown to be a notable feature of the town, or particularly relevant to be mentioned in the lede, and unquestionably places emphasis on Liverpool (and indeed is a feature of Liverpool and Merseyside). However for instance within the Sefton document it states:

Central Sefton

2.12   The central area of Sefton contains the free‐standing towns of Crosby, Maghull and Formby.  These are distinctive settlements in their own right, and all function as commuter settlements for the Liverpool City Region.

Given the depiction of this "Liverpool City Region" as being pretty much all of Merseyside.

2.14  A proportion of Formby residents commute well beyond the Liverpool City Region.

So where's that mentioned in the lede? Seems better for these details to be established in Economy given that is the point of these documents. Koncorde (talk) 19:48, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

By that argument, one could also question the merit of the presence of the other information that is also currently in the introduction. However, to my mind the purpose of an introduction is to give a general overview of the subject matter, therefore the inclusion of a brief (referenced) statement regarding the town's status as a dormitory/commuter town isn't out of place. Liverpool is mentioned because it is the primary economic driver within the region, it is where a substantial number of people living in Formby commute to, and is the basis of the work foundation source. Of course people do commute to other towns on Merseyside as well, but not in as great a number. If you want to expand on the details within the Economy section then feel free. Primarni (talk) 12:28, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

I've lived in Formby all my life (50) years and during my education we were taught that Formby was a dormitory town for both Liverpool and Southport due to the greenbelt surrounding Formby. Whilst the geopolitics of the area have changed several times in my lifetime, Formby has always remained physically detached from Liverpool (excluding road and rail links). This separation is what defines a dormitory town. If you take a look at a map or aerial photographs of the region, it's pretty obvious that Liverpool's suburbs extend from Crosby & Thornton in the north. To Kirkby & Huyton to the east and Halewood and Speke to the south. Areas outside this would be formally classed as dormitory or commuter towns. Commuter town As to the comment about Liverpool accents. I agree that the accent is more prevalent these days as more people have moved from Liverpool and it's conurbation, but there are still strong Lancashire roots in the town. Leeraven172 (talk) 11:49, 8 July 2018 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Formby. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090210123800/http://liverpoolstreetgallery.com/thumbnails.php?album=39 to http://liverpoolstreetgallery.com/thumbnails.php?album=39

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 04:39, 4 October 2017 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 9 external links on Formby. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120407025056/http://www.theworkfoundation.com/Assets/Docs/Liverpool%20City%20Region.pdf to http://www.theworkfoundation.com/Assets/Docs/Liverpool%20City%20Region.pdf
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120402140633/http://www.sefton.gov.uk/pdf/2%20Profile%20of%20SeftonFORPRINT.pdf to http://www.sefton.gov.uk/pdf/2%20Profile%20of%20SeftonFORPRINT.pdf
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20111002152630/http://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/main/w-formby-2 to http://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/main/w-formby-2
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080915125907/http://www.woodvale-rally.org.uk/01b_general_information_page.htm to http://www.woodvale-rally.org.uk/01b_general_information_page.htm
• Added {{dead link}} tag to http://www.formbyfcjuniors.co.uk/MATCHREPORTS22.html
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100515050658/http://modgov.sefton.gov.uk/moderngov/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=1039 to http://modgov.sefton.gov.uk/moderngov/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=1039
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120407025056/http://www.theworkfoundation.com/Assets/Docs/Liverpool%20City%20Region.pdf to http://www.theworkfoundation.com/Assets/Docs/Liverpool%20City%20Region.pdf
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120402140633/http://www.sefton.gov.uk/pdf/2%20Profile%20of%20SeftonFORPRINT.pdf to http://www.sefton.gov.uk/pdf/2%20Profile%20of%20SeftonFORPRINT.pdf
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20050426151310/http://stlukes.merseyside.org/History.htm to http://stlukes.merseyside.org/History.htm
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20081022021007/http://www.films.mod.uk/north_england/woodvale.htm to http://www.films.mod.uk/north_england/woodvale.htm

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 05:08, 29 November 2017 (UTC)

Notable Residents

Hello fellow Wiki Editors, I'm fairly new to this malarky so please excuse any mistakes. I was thinking of adding Dr Reginald Yorke to the Notable Residents section. He was, until last year, a local doctor, author and historian. He had written and had published three books about Formby, was chairman of a couple of the local societies, and had national recognition with his work on Fragile X and helping to create the first UK Mobile Physiotherapy Service. So Yes/No? --Formby1 (talk) 16:18, 17 January 2019 (UTC)

Rhian Teasdale

I've added Rhian Teasdale as a notable person from a very popular new band called "Wet Leg". She was born in the Sefton North registration district in 1993 and when asked in the following interview she said "I moved there (Isle of Wight) when I was 8. I grew up in like near Liverpool ... in Formby, Merseyside": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkM-box7bM4&t=410sC3MC2 (talk) 14:30, 4 April 2022 (UTC)