Talk:Fly Club/Archive 1

Archive 1

Final Club

Is there a good reason for me not to make this a redirect to Final club? -- Thesquire (talk - contribs) 07:23, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

Membership is for life.

Every undergraduate group of this ilk (Scroll and Key at Yale or University Cottage at Princeton, for example) is characterized by lifelong membership. Quit adding the fact to the entry, even if it is an inside joke; if so, add citation. 127W111 (talk) 17:46, 28 March 2017 (UTC)

External links modified

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Phillips Brooks

The article listed

• Phillips Brooks - clergyman and author, Bishop of Massachusetts

However, O'Gorman, James F. (2004). The Makers of Trinity Church in the City of Boston. University of Massachusetts Press. ISBN 1558494367. p. 14 says he was a member of Porcellian:

[H. H. Richardson] had been a member of several clubs, including the prestigious Porcellian; thus he needed no introduction to the rector, Phillips Brooks, or five of the eleven-man building committee—they were all fellow Porcellian members.

Presumably, if I understand how "final" clubs work, Brooks could not have been a member of both Fly and Porcellian. Dpbsmith (talk) 23:11, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

Phillips Brooks

What you do not understand is that during that period there existed both 'waiting' clubs and 'final' clubs. At that point, one could belong to Fly and Porcellian, since Fly was still a 'waiting' club, called Alpha Delta Phi Club, and Porcellian was 'final.'

• Could you provide a source citation for Phillips Brooks' membership in Fly, please? Dpbsmith (talk) 09:51, 4 May 2006 (UTC) In fact, source citations need to be provided for all of them. Dpbsmith (talk) 09:52, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

Unsourced entries

I'm moving the following entries from "Notable Members" here, as no source citations have been provided. They can be reinserted into the article when they are accompanied by a verifiable source citation indicating that the person was a member of the Fly Club. I've looked for and add a couple of citations myself.

Per the verifiability policy which is linked below every edit box, 1. Articles should contain only material that has been published by reputable sources. 2. Editors adding new material to an article should cite a reputable source, or it may be removed by any editor. 3. The obligation to provide a reputable source lies with the editors wishing to include the material, not on those seeking to remove it.

In other words, the information about the person's membership must have been published; inside information or internal Fly Club documents won't do. Dpbsmith (talk) 22:33, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

• Abbott Lawrence Lowell - historian, 25th President of Harvard University
• Prince Sadruddin Aga Khan - U.N. High Commissioner for Refugees
• Jay Rockefeller - Former West Virginia Governor, United States Senator
• Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr. - justice of the Supreme Court of the United States
• Albert Hamilton Gordon - Wall Street financier, philanthropist
• Fred Gwynne - Hollywood actor:
  • Note: New York Times obituary and bio in Contemporary Authors Online, Gale, 2003 mention Lampoon, Hasty Pudding, and, after graduation, Brattle Theatre; Fly membership not mentioned.
• Louis Kane - founder of Au Bon Pain food chain
• Ralph Earle II, U.S. arms control negotiator.

Unsourced entries

Again, moving Fred Gwynne and Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr. here, as well as

• Aga Khan IV, Karim Aga Khan - 49th Imam of Shia Imani Ismali Muslims, descendant of the Prophet Muhammed"
• Jared Kushner - Owner of the New York Observer
• Vali Chandrasekaran - Prominent West Hollywood blogger
• Lucien Carter - Venture Recreationalist

Unsourced entries

• Fred Gwynne - played Herman Munster and co-starred in My Cousin Vinny
• Evan Thomas - Journalist, Newsweek magazine
• Whit Stillman - Film maker

If you know of a reliable source any of these people having been members of Fly, please supply the source and reinsert them in the article. Otherwise, please do not reinsert them.Dpbsmith (talk) 01:07, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

Deleted the entry for Theodore Roosevelt who quite famously belonged to the Porcellian Club and is listed in their alumni directory and on their Wikipedia page. This is why FDR thought he would be elected to the Porcellian. TR mentions the Porcellian in his biography. Karim Aga Khan, also quite famously, belonged to the Delphic Club not the Fly. He has mentioned it several times in interviews and is listed in their alumni directory. The source being used here - the "Catalogue of the Alpha Delta Phi Club of Harvard University, 1836-1902. Cambridge, Mass. Harvard University Press, 1902" covers the period before the Final Clubs broke from the national chapter of ADP. It includes members of the AD Club, the Fly Club and the Delphic Club and you must be careful when attributing membership to the Fly based just on that source. HansDieterUlrich (talk) 19:15, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

Reinstated entry for Theodore Roosevelt. The user who deleted this entry has a superficial grasp of final club history, particularly the histories of the Porcellian, A.D., and Fly. Theodore Roosevelt was a member of the Porcellian, yes, but he was also an active member of the Fly.

Both the A.D. Club and the Fly Club trace their roots to the establishment in 1836 of a Harvard sub-chapter of the Alpha Delta Phi fraternity founded at Hamilton College in 1832. In 1865, the Harvard sub-chapter surrendered its charter, continuing its existence as the A.D. Club. In 1879, several members initiated into the pre-1865 sub-chapter (notably Edward Everett Hale and Phillips Brooks), lamenting its discontinuation, initiated members of the Harvard Class of 1879 in accordance with the traditional rites, thus reviving their chapter. Initiates from the Class of 1880 included Theodore Roosevelt.

In 1906, the Harvard Chapter of Alpha Delta Phi once again surrendered its charter, continuing as the Alpha Delta Phi Club. In 1910, the name was changed to "Fly Club" in recognition of the club's long-held informal designation. The 1902 edition of the "Alpha Delta Phi Club" catalog was cited because it is to be found in the Theodore Roosevelt Collection of the Harvard College Library, a gift of the Roosevelt Memorial Association in 1943. (This 1902 catalog also lists the recently initiated Franklin Delano Roosevelt, Class of 1904.) Moreover, in June 1902, TR, then US president, attended a Fly Club banquet in honor of Edward Everett Hale, the ADP (now Fly Club) member who had initiated him. The banquet was held at Two Holyoke Place, the Fly's clubhouse since 1895. The banquet included FDR, TR's fifth cousin, a Harvard sophomore, and--along with his roommate--a member of the Fly.

The 1911 edition of the "Fly Club" (formerly Alpha Delta Phi Club) catalog is to be found in the New York Public Library. Both the 1902 edition and the 1911 edition of the catalog display the Fly Club emblem, a leopard rampant, on their covers. The 1911 edition, published on the 75th anniversary of the club's founding, lists TR, then age 53, as a member. TR lived until 1919 and undoubtedly would have protested had his name been misappropriated.TwoHolyokePlace (talk) 02:14, 12 February 2015 (UTC)