Talk:Florida State University/Archive 1

Famous Alumni

I removed Kevin Cash and Eduardo Perez. With all of the athletes to come out of FSU, a MLB player with a .246 average, and no other notable characteristics, doesn't really need to be on here, does he? This list will get out of hand if we include every athlete to go pro out of FSU. I think we should just try to limit the athletes. AriGold 15:00, 28 July 2005 (UTC)

I abstain from comment on the sole defense that I'm sick of discussing the alumni list :) TrbleClef ♮ (talk) 18:01, 28 July 2005 (UTC)

By saying you abstain from comment, are you in fact commenting? ;-) AriGold 18:05, 28 July 2005 (UTC)

Homestar Runner is included.

Also, an alumnus by definition is anyone who has received a degree from a school. There's no need to overcomplicate it. TrbleClef 20:39, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Fair enough. I agree.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 206.201.180.226 (talk • contribs) 13:46, 3 June 2005 (UTC).

Ranking of fine arts programs

I understand your concern about boasting without backup, but if you do a little reasearch, you'll see that it is so in those departments. I'll start you off.

• "The Florida State University School of Theatre is one of the leading comprehensive theatre training programs in the United States. U.S. News and World Report has consistently included FSU's graduate theatre programs in its top-tier rankings, one of the few public university programs thus honored. The School is accredited by the National Association of Schools of Theatre and is a founding member of the University/Resident Theatre Association." http://theatre.fsu.edu/academic/graduate/ AriGold 16:48, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
  • It may be wise to cite specifics for all these rankings, perhaps with endnotes. TrbleClef ♮ (talk) 19:45, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
    • Agreed. AriGold 20:11, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

ENROLLMENT/Academics

The enrollment information quoted from Princeton Review is for FALL 2004 statistics, not 2005. The Tallahassee Democrat posted the CORRECT SAT and enrollment numbers on August 29th, 2005. Florida State Universtity is expected to post the official IR factbook on this information by the end of October.

Need to get the new Fall 2006 student stats up. They are significantly higher than last year...1140-1280 for starters.

I updated the Fall 2006 general statistics to match FSU's IR stats.Sirberus 02:47, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

This needs further expantion.

• I have expanded the section. Other college rankings such as Music, Theatre and Arts should be added.

This should be easier now as FSU is ranked in several catagories in the US News 2006 Best Graduate Schools, plus FSU law rankings haven risen significantly. The 2006 US News & World report on Best Collges comes out for release in August 2005.

According to www.fsu.edu, About FSU:

With an impressive breadth of programs, Florida State University has leading graduate, professional, and undergraduate programs in a variety of fields. Many units have programs that consistently rank among the nation’s top twenty-five public universities, including programs in Physics, Chemistry, Oceanography, Statistics, Ecology and Evolutionary Biology, Meteorology, Political Science, Psychology, Sociology, Criminology, Information, Creative Writing, Public Policy, Business and Law.

some goofball messed up the enrollment figures.

i doubt the gpa is 1.67 some kid(most likely a gator) keeps playing with the topic...

Computer Science Information

The part about FSU's CS dept being a center for national excellence is misleading. It appears to add credibility to the program as a top-tier CS program. However, looking at the rankings, FSU's program is woefully inadaquate. Shouldn't it be re-written, or at leasted pointed out that it was more to do with the federal government's focus on affirmative action and FSU's ties/joint engineering program with FAMU, a historically black school?

• FSU's Department of Computer Science is NOT in the College of Engineering, it is under the College of Arts and Sciences. Therefore, it has NOTHING to do with FAMU and/or affirmative action. It became a Center for National Excellence, simply because the National Security Agency has funded their various research programs, especially in Cryptography. The NSA could've chosen any other college or university in the state of Florida, but they chose FSU's CS Dept. for a reason of excellence!

Housing

This section needs to be added

Added. Including some information about parking (ugh).Sirberus 17:04, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

History

The history is public record, accessible through many website, handbooks and even the Florida Statutes. Here are some links to the history. The version on the wikipedia page has information gathered from sites and has been rewritten in parts. http://www.fsu.edu/~dof/Faculty-Handbook/Ch2/Ch2.1.html http://www.fsu.edu/~fsu150/history/history_02_1851b.html http://www.ir.fsu.edu/search_help/searchinfo.asp?ID=t_history http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/encyclopedia/F/Fl/Florida_State_University.htm

It still contains text which is directly taken from copyright protected websites. That's not allowed. TrbleClef 20:25, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Where is the History section? That history is part of what makes FSU the most unique university in Florida. Please replace it.

I rewrote the History section after someone vandalized it. Please review the composition.Sirberus 02:43, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Programs

I've removed the International Programs link because it appears to be POV to include a link to one (college, school,) department of the university without including links to every (college, school, and) department of the university, all of which are accessible from the university's directory site anyway. Additionally, the link was added in an edit from 146.201.119.101, which is an IP allocated to the International Programs office -- nothing inherently bad about that, but it would suggest that any visitor from an FSU department add an individual link for that department.

Certainly anyone seeking further information on the International Programs, or any of the other colleges/schools/departments mentioned in the article could find such information by using the university's directory. TrbleClef 03:45, 17 Aug 2004 (UTC)

ACC template

Is this ACC template really appropriate for the footer of a university article? The entire article is not about university sports - would it be more appropriate to create a sports section and place the template there?

I'd say it's fine. Many of the other schools have it. Athletics are just as much a part of the university as academics, and in many cases are the most visible aspect of a university's credentials.

True, but my question only related to whether it belonged as the footer (I believe this was before the SUS template was placed at the bottom)

Ah, I see now, it';s in there twice. I'd say one time is enough. Take it out in the links section at the bottom maybe? AriGold 16:43, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

Mascot Controversy ?

There is controversy over the FSU use of Seminole/Native American symbolism, imagery, etc. and using "seminole" as the mascot name. FSU asked ALL the various Seminole Nations for permission to use the mascot including Osceola and his horse Renegade. They've asked if they were offended by the "Chop" or "War Chant". Seminoles (the Native American Tribe) from the state of Florida accept the FSU use of their symbols and name, and they actually welcome and embrace the use. However Seminoles from outside the state of Florida (notably those residing in the state of Oklahoma who are descendents of those forcibly exiled from Florida in the 19th century) disagree and would like the university to stop using the Seminole nickname and the related symbols.

Those who find the FSU "Seminoles" and other Native American mascots to be a source of controversy are often themselves cariacatured as politically correct types who would probably also find the name Miami "Hurricanes" to be offensive to people named Charley or Andrew, as the previous version of this Wikipedia entry attests. Not a 'nole fan, actually a rival 'cane fan defending NPOV. Jcam 02:21, 23 May 2005 (UTC)

This controversy has been resolved, as the Seminole Nations have asked the NCAA to allow FSU to retain their title and mascot.Hence, it's resolved. Swatjester 20:48, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Notable Alumni and Faculty lists

I moved the lists to a seperate page because they were large enough to warrant such a move. I give University of Alabama, Vanderbilt University, Duke University, Harvard University as examples of uni articles with seperated alumni lists [with the caveat that I've hand a hand in editing most of those articles (not Hahvahd)]. I think the better question to ask is this: Does the article look better with or without a large list in a it? -Ttownfeen 18:24, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

• I don't think aesthetics are the most important issue. Providing relevent information wherever possible is. Bring it to a vote if you wish, but most here have been contributing to the section for a while now and have not had a problem with it. AriGold 18:44, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Nah, I don't want to be a pain or cause drama. I was just trying to help. -[User:Ttownfeen|Ttownfeen]]

+Meteorology in Famous Alumni?

Recently Max Mayfield, Director of the National Hurricane Center was added under Media. Looking at Media, there's a lot of meteorologists. Anyone object to adding a special section for them? Kushboy 20:16, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Nope, none here Swatjester 20:47, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

• No objection also, though I think there is a subtle distinction between a television personality/meteorologist and say a NOAA employee/meteorologist, that we might have to draw, you know? AriGold 22:04, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

• That's tough to judge. I'm going to move them all over to a new section for now. Let me know if you have any ideas of how to draw the line. Kushboy 03:54, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

FYI - the new director replacing Max Mayfield is also an FSU graduate.Sirberus 02:48, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Mack Brown, Athlete?

I see why Mack Brown was added under Famous Athletes, but should he be there? Coaches = athletes? Kushboy 07:27, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

• He attended FSU as a student-athlete. Brown graduated from Florida State. He lettered twice as a running back for the Seminoles in 1972-73. An injury sidelined him for much of the 1973 season and he worked and that led to the start of his coaching career as he became a student coach. He completed his bachelor's degree in education in 1974. AriGold 13:44, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

• Should we note that? His only credential in the article is being a coach. That's what he's famous for. Burn Reynolds was an athlete at FSU, but now he's an actor. Kushboy 05:18, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
  • I think I solved the issue you are trying to address by changing the "Famous Athletes" section to "Athletics". Reynolds belongs in the Entertainment section because that is what he is famous for, not for being a FSU football player. Same with Brown, he is famous for being in the world of athletics, not for being an athlete. Now, you could make an argument that he belongs in the "Education" section, as college coaches are also considered educators by most universites (and in some cases are required to actually teach, see Penn State). But I don't think we want to go that way. Look good? AriGold 13:49, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

• Yay Kushboy 15:06, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

• I am too lazy to look but is Lee Corso on the list too? If anyone ever goes to the Sports Deli next to Doak, they have that picture on the wall of the late 1950's football teams with other famous Noles throughout the school's history. Might be good to check out some ideas from there.

• He is now. AriGold 13:36, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Founding

• FSU WAS NOT founded in 1851. 1851 is the year the Florida Legislature enacted legislation to found two seminaries, East Florida Seminary and West Florida Seminary. EFS opened in 1853, and WFS opened in 1857. EFS merged with another institution later. In 1905, the Buckman act REPLACED these institutions and the State Normal and Industrial College for Negroes (With much of same staff, administration, and buildings) with newer institutions. EFS became the University of Florida, WFS Became FSU, and the State Normal and Industrial College for Negroes became Florida Agricultural and Mechanical University. Now, perhaps the wording "Official" and "Actual" is not ideal ("Actual" seems a bit harsh for all three, in my opinion), but the three institutions all went through a similar history in regards to the founding date, and all three should be in line as far as the info box founding date goes. Feel free to change the wording, like I said, I don't find the wording to be ideal anyway, but make sure you change the wording on ALL THREE at the SAME TIME. If you remove the second date, remove the second date on all three. I don't care what the end result is, just all three need to be held to the same standard. - FrYGuY 18:25, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
  • "Established", not founded, by the Florida Legislature is 1851, like the infobox states. So, 1851 it is. The explanation is in the article. I think that works. I see you are trying to find some kind of uniformity between FSU, uf and FAMU which is admirable. But I think that a simple establishment date of 1851 works for either FSU or uf, and I think it should be kept that way, and have changed it as such here. As I do not participate in the editing at the uf page, I do not feel comfortable making that decision there also. I am sure you understand. AriGold 19:07, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
    • But it was not established in 1851, the two Florida Seminaries were. Florida State University, the current form, was established in 1905. By the way, UF's official founding date is 1853, the date EFS opened, rather than the date they were given funding. But, c'est la vie. I'll change FAMU's and UF's. -FrYGuY 02:44, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
      • [1] about UF.
        • Why not like so?

          Established: 1851 (as West Florida Seminary)

          1905 (as Florida State University)

        • Communicates the facts without establishing POV. --Tetraminoe 05:09, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
          • Why not? Because if you do that, you should do this:

            Established: 1851 (as the State Seminary West of the Suwannee River)

            1854 (as the Florida Institute)

            1857 (as the West Florida Seminary having absorbed the Tallahassee Female Academy)

            1863 (as the Florida Military and Collegiate Institute)

            1901 (as the Florida State College)

            1905 (as the Florida Female College)

            1909 (as the Florida State College for Women)

            1946 (as the Florida State University)

          • And when all is said and done, it's all included in the History section of the article and addding all of that would be overkill, as the school was first established, albeit not in its current form, in 1851. Most universities have gone through similar changes. For example, look at Penn State's page. They list their founding as "1855", when in actuality it was not "The Pennsylvania State University" that was created in 1855, it was the "Farmers' High School of Pennsylvania". Names of schools have changed along with many other characteristics of the schools. AriGold 13:20, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
          • FSU absolutely was founded (by every traditional & tangible measure) in 1851. It's obviously a sore spot for supporters of UF and FAMU. FSU's campus is older.
          • Since FSU absorbed the Misses Bates School, begun in 1843, doesn't that resolve the issue of FSU being the oldest university in Florida once and for all? I've not seen any other school that can claim: (a) it's been in the same spot all these years (certainly not UF, since it's been in several locations over the years and was closed all together during the Civil War) and (b) it can properly trace roots to 1843. I see no case for any other claim. Yet, UF makes the claim on their website that they're 'oldest' - which is deceptive.

Updated identity

FSU has introduced a new seal and wordmark. It is protected by a new office and not available for download without permission. If anyone is interested in updating what is in the article consider contacting that office; see [2]

• I have talked to the office, and I will handle it, if nobody else does first. Kushboy 07:10, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

FSU Wikimeeting

Any FSU attending wikipedia editors here are invited to a superbowl party, sunday, hosted by me. Leave a message on my talk space. Swatjester 07:56, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

Athletics Change

With so much information available within Seminole sports, AriGold and Noles1984 have created a Florida State Seminoles article.USA Noles1984 17:45, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

Reorg

Under Academics, I removed the bolding of each school within the text itself in favor of using bold headings which were absent before. This produced a cleaner appearance. Noles1984 16:17, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

The opening paragraph needs work (it certainly doesn't do FSU justice). What does "graduate-national research" in the opening line mean? Did you mean "graduate, national research". Overall there's some good content on this site...but the opening is poor.

FSU opening paragraph needs update

The opening paragraph needs work (it certainly doesn't do FSU justice). What does "graduate-national research" in the opening line mean? Did you mean "graduate, national research". Overall there's some good content on this site...but the opening is poor.

--- I agree it doesn't do FSU justice...

--- I changed the intro back to include "oldest site of higher education in Florida" since someone removed it. Why would you take that out?

== Endowment == I noticed someone changed the endowment from 630 million to 460. Is this accurate? I read the source, but it also said that our previous endowment wasn't 630 mill, but rather only 400 something.

---

Corrected vandalism by 128.227.82.127 (University of Florida).Sirberus 16:00, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Something new

I wrote this. Does anyone think it could fit in, and if so, where? Kushboy 17:39, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

History and symbolism of the seal

The first seal claimed by FSU was a drawing of an owl used for the State Seminary West of the Suwannee River. The owl basically represented wisdom. When the school became the Florida State College in 1901, the owl was accompanied by two torches. Eventually, between 1905 and 1909, the owl was entirely replaced by a third torch. A ribbon was added that wove between the torches and read "Vires, Artes, Mores." The torch behind the word “Artes” translated to “wisdom” specifically took the place of the owl, and stands larger than the other two torches, symbolically implying that wisdom is more important than “strength” and “morals”. The school's slogan "Femina Perfecta" (Latin: The Completed Woman), and the roman numerals MCMV for 1905 were also an addition. In 1947, the school became the Florida State University, and so the school colors filled in the seal, "Femina Perfecta" was removed, and the year was changed to 1857. In 2001 when President D'Alemberte appealed to have the official year changed, the seal's year was changed to 1851. The current seal was designed in 2005, to be released officially in August, 2006. The change was to modernize the seal, changing the font, tweaking the colors slightly, and replacing the hand-drawn torches with computer designed graphics. [3]

• Florida State University Communications Department (August 30, 2005). "The FSU Seal: A Brief History". Retrieved June 9, 2006.

I removed the picture of the Anthro Dept in the strip center. I felt it did not contribute postively to the article. Technically, that is an off campus site and is being used only because FSU is under space constraints.

Academic clusters

Added "academic clusters" to intro. with Association of American Universities. We are currently undertaking a great leap forward in academia and it's worth noting in the article. Noles1984 15:10, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Replaced intro paragraph

Some unknown fool removed the intro paragraph. I'm close to calling this vandalism.
File:FSU Helmet.png Noles1984 18:41, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Photos

I think we need some more pictures on here, don't you think?

• Yeah Kushboy 01:20, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

FSU Page Rework

Looking much better! Now if only the UF, FAMU and Miami fans would leave it alone...Sirberus 04:07, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

The Taxol Story

I think the story about Taxol (College of A&S, Dept. of Chemistry) belongs as a sub heading under the College of Arts and Sciences...not at the end of the entire listing...Sirberus 21:51, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

• Before it just looked intermingled among various departments...Mike850 17:40, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
  • OK Siberus, I moved "the taxol story" back to underneath "the college of arts and sciences" but I made the sub-heading title smaller as to be more distinguishable as a sub-heading. I also reworked the order in which the departments were presented to make the art programs all presented together...Mike850 17:40, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
    • Nice job!Sirberus 23:11, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

This is no reason to codify on Wikipedia every dispute or negative news burst that occurs at a major research university. If you start this trend, and this is the second time you've gone this direction, then it will be fair game to pick at every weakness at every school, and the opportunities are manifold. For example, on the UF page, why is there not a mention of the near bankruptcy of the College they have? It's news, it's well documented, it's fact. See where this could go? It does no one any good, but plays to your apparent goal of trying to diminish a fine, 150+ year old university. Sirberus 03:48, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

• Because one the UF page they probably aren't praising the College of Liberal Arts and Sciences as the next best thing to sliced bread. If you are going to say how much money and how great Taxol and Holton is, you have to update the story and the fact that Holton SUED the University for backstabbing him. This is a huge part of the Taxol story which was covered by every major news source including the New York Times.
  • That is a donor-university dispute. It doesn't matter regarding the development of Taxol. At most it could rate a sentence, but by comparison to similar disputes at Princeton or Harvard, it is barely an event. Their donor disputes also appear in national newspapers, too. Those schools have HUGE disputes with donors involving hundreds of millions of dollars, covering decades of issues, yet not a word of it appears on their Wikipedia university pages. The discovery of Taxol is noteworthy, but even it is fairly unremarkable in the history of the entire university. Therefore, no mention of a much later donor dispute in the article regarding the development of Taxol.Sirberus 14:55, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
    • This is more than a donor-university dispute. This is the creator of Taxol and the pride and joy of FSU research for so long calling FSU out and saying what they had hoped to build research wise at FSU is dead and making FSU pay back the money he gave them. This is not just a donor, this man was FSU Research. It tells the story of FSU and Wetherell backstabbing Holton and him fighting bsck in court. If that is not noteworthy, I don't know what is. You usually don't see Harvard chemists who have a breakthrough saying the university lied to them.
      • That is only one side of a heated dispute. One Princeton dispute involves nearly $650 million and I am sure has heated issues as well. The answer is the same - it does not belong on this page.Sirberus 20:33, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
• An anonymous writer is adding subjective, one-sided information concerning the Taxol dispute. Furthermore, one quote, added to the end of the sub-section, serves no purpose other than to libel the University without giving the University fair space from which to respond. Finally, the writer's prose does not meet the article's quality standards, it is suggested that the anonymous writer proofread his/her text and complete a course in English before contributing further. Mike850 20:45, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
  • The ^anonymous editor has an IP address registered to the University of Florida.Sirberus 13:30, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Page Rework

I've removed the 'photo request' header as I think I've covered that (I have more good pics though), and added a 'WikiProject Universities' header, thoughts sirberus? Mike850 03:50, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Looking good! I'd like to see if we can upload thumbnails of the historic pix. Sirberus 18:17, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

I suggest it is time to do a complete review of the work to date and start to fill in gaps and improve the use of language. There are many important programs that are not mentioned. Sirberus 03:44, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

• • One small thing was fixed. "The" was removed from the beginning. Nowhere (that I see) does FSU call itself "The Florida State University", unlike Ohio State, William & Mary, etc. It comes off as elitist, and without a notation showing that they (FSU) themselves refer to their institution as "The Florida State University", it is not needed.

• • • The University does appear to refer to itself in official documents with the "The" in the name. I've added a cite for this title.Sirberus 12:34, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

• • • • The question is though if it's "The Florida State University" or The "Florida State University". That doesn't really distinguish which they mean. I'm not going to edit it, because I don't see a reason to without more proof. I have just never heard of them refer to themselves that way.

• • • • • I see what you mean; I have mixed emotions about it myself. However, I have seen the title used on official documents over the years so that's why I put it back...until a more authoritative reference can be identified. It seems FSU uses it both ways.Sirberus 20:55, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

• • • • • • I heard from a university official that about 1 year ago FSU dropped the "The" from the official title. I'll look for a cite, but that's authoritative enough for me.Sirberus 20:56, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

• • • • • • • Excellent. Glad we figured that out. I didn't think they refered to themselves as "The Florida State University", but like I said, I wasn't going to edit it again until proof was given. I didn't want to come off as one that vandalized.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.100.195.85 (talk • contribs) 02:25, 26 June 2007 (UTC).

College of Business

Added 2006 BusinessWeek rankings, updated US News rankings and other figures from COB website and other sources that are linked. JJ —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.237.178.195 (talk) 22:32, 13 January 2007 (UTC).

Endowment

I changed the endowment from $630M to $475M. The 630 figure is the amount received from our latest fund-raiser. 475 is an approximation, we should get the official figure in Jan/Feb. Mike850

Endowment updated to $500M. Sirberus 14:59, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Notable Alumni - Who should stay

Alumni section's a little big, starting to crowd out the main article. I think scientists, businessmen, and fine artists should take precedence over entertainers. So let's list those who should be removed to make room. Mike850 00:39, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

• Wikipedia is warning us this article is quite long. I suggest if anything goes, it's the "Notable Alumni" section. This article is about the University, more than famous people who happen to be alumni. Sirberus 12:40, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

New Template

I've created a new FSU Template: Florida State University. I've added one to the bottom of the article, please add any facilities to the template as needed. Mike850 07:47, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

I like the template, but can we add garnet instead of black background?Sirberus 17:14, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

We need a stub for the FSU COMSirberus 01:06, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Athletic Symbol

The women's athletic symbol/logo is no longer used.

• We know that the symbol is dated...but until we can find a legal current graphic we're kind of stuck with it.Sirberus 20:59, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Is there any way we can add this FSU promotional video to the page?:

http://pathways.fsu.edu/

Great video with lots of positive info.

PS The FSU page looks vastly improved compared to my last visit here. Kudos!

FSU video

Is there any way we can add this FSU promotional video to the page?:

http://pathways.fsu.edu/

Great video with lots of positive info.

PS The FSU page looks vastly improved compared to my last visit here. Kudos!

TBUF Details

While the TBUF is history, it is in fact negligible in the context of the entire history of the university. As the initial author of the history section here my goal was not to write a duplication of the FSU official history or the FSU history from the perspective of UF fans. What we have is an accurate summary of many major events in the history of FSU. Not all details are given, only enough to whet the appetite of the reader with a reasonable summary; complete with links to the official history of the university and the Florida archives, where complete detail may be had.Sirberus 23:04, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

TBUF was a temporary program established to give the state time to deal with the huge influx of soldiers taking advantage of the G.I. Bill. This program lasted maybe one year. Not very significant, I would suggest in the history of the 156+ year old FSU but if people want it in the history I'm ok with it as long as it not driven out of proportion to the rest of the history. The adding of minute details seems pretty silly when viewed in the context of the article, I mean who really cares except gator fans trying yet again to create problems?Sirberus 13:05, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

If someone can improve this article, please do.Sirberus 20:05, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Was FSU "created" in 1947 or was FSCW renamed FSU?

The official history of Florida State University is contained on the university web pages here: http://www.fsu.edu/about/history.html

Here's the quote from that site: "The year 1947 saw many changes. Demand by returning World War II veterans had brought men back to the campus in 1946 with the establishment of the Tallahassee Branch of the University of Florida, and on May 15, 1947, the Governor signed an act of the Legislature returning Florida State College for Women to coeducational status and naming it The Florida State University."

This language has been approved by the Administration of the university and may be considered authoritative. I'm quite sure that any language describing the university on a public display like a web page must go through multiple technical and legal reviews before it is approved by either the ranking university authorities or the FSU Board of Trustees.

There is a claim by some that this book, written by Frank Stephenson, that FSU was "created" in 1947: http://www.rinr.fsu.edu/summer95/features/warchild.html Note that this book draws from an FSU student's dissertation which may be found here: Femina Perfecta: The Genesis of Florida State University, by Robin Jeanne Sellers, Ph.D. This dissertation, representing the first comprehensive history of FSCW and the "Great Transition," will be published as a book this fall by the FSCW/FSU Class of 1947.

I must point out that a dissertation, even if it claims to be "comprehensive" may never be embraced by the University officially. FSU produces thousands and thousands of dissertations and few, if any, are adopted as official policy of the university.

Why is this even an issue? The reason is that some UF fans, in the never-ending quest for superiority over the rival flagship FSU, want to parse such language in such ways that it diminishes the university. It's really of little moment, but between FSU and UF alumni, it's very important. In this instance alone it has resulted in battles of Wikipedia reverts and testy postings. (some may call this a nerd war - lol)

Therefore, unless someone has more credible sources than the official position of the FSU Trustees, I suggest we go with the official language of the university in the "History of the University" section.

Please note that I will not revert or edit the current text (unless it gets to be vandalism) for a couple days here so that everyone gets a chance to come back with remarks.Sirberus 12:55, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Added more detail to the paragraph and links to pix from the Florida Archives. Reworked the paragraph to match the official FSU history.Sirberus 16:40, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Academics and External Rankings

I wanted to solicit comments regarding two statements in this section.

The first states that: Florida State University joins the University of Florida as the top-ranked public universities in Florida, the only public universites in the top U.S. News ranking tier, and the only universities listed in the Academic Ranking of World Universities Top 100 American Universites[4][5].

Obviously, the second and third clauses are not correct as written, as there are many other public universities in the top U.S. News ranking tier and there are certainly other universities listed in the Top 100 American Universities rankings. Is this supposed to be a reference instead only to universities in Florida?

The second states that:

FSU has an 89% freshman retention rate, competitive with any public university in the country.[6]

Unfortunately, the source cited states neither that FSU has an 89% freshman retention rate nor that such rate is "competitive with any public university in the country." I am sure that data can be found re: the freshman retention rate, and the other comment seems superfluous.

Since the comments were reinserted without substantive explanation after I deleted them previously on these bases, I wanted to fully explain the issues before making any changes.

Cka3n 18:40, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Looks like your changes have been enacted.Sirberus 01:08, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Featured Article Request

I've asked for a fac review of the article now that it has been in peer review status for some time.Sirberus 13:36, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Major Revisions Proposed for Article

As a result of the feedback received from the Featured Article Candidate request it seems we have some work to do to bring this article up to a higher level.

First, it seems the listing of FSU alumni, which grows ever longer, must be moved to it's own sub-article or stub. I agree with this change and solicit comments about this proposed change.

Secondly, we must rework the method of citation to a more standard format. Any comments on this are appreciated as well.

Lastly, please take a critical look at the article. One comment dealt with too many graphics in the middle of the article. While this is open to interpretation, please offer suggestions as to what changes to graphics improves the quality of the article.

I will not make any changes until we have a week or so for comments about these proposed changes. Once we eliminate these aspects it's likely there will be more work to do. If we do not make any changes the article is not at all likely to make Featured Article status.Sirberus 00:03, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

• We have to be careful not to heed any suggestions from people who harbor anti-fsu sentiment, most of the suggestions seem reasonable but others, such as the removing of graphics, seem ridiculous. I've seen many featured articles with an abundance of relevant graphics.

• As for suggestions you have echoed above, I agree with the first point but when we move the alumni section please, please let's make sure that we keep the current format. The layout, organization, and content is all nicely accomplished. I was afraid that our citation layout would get us into trouble...all featured articles have a traditional footnote layout it seems.

• I agree with the suggestion that our intro is way too long, I didn't realize until reading that suggestion that someone had scrapped our old intro from a few weeks ago (which was quite good) and basically parroted the exact information presented in The Academics and Rankings section. I'll try to repair it.Mike850 18:32, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

• • Agreed - we have work to do. I was giving it a few days before editing to allow for discussion.Sirberus 01:12, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Flagship status

What makes FSU a flagship school? I checked the citations and can find nothing that would denote FSU a flagship school. Also check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flagship#University_campuses it says flagship schools are usually the first established school in a state. The entry on "flagship schools" says this "a flagship campus is often a land-grant school dating from the wave of state university foundings that followed the Morrill Act of 1863." This does not describe FSU at all. The term is pretty broad, but what makes it a flagship school? If no one affirms this I will delete it. Ocoufnoc 04:32, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

I don't have an opinion as to whether FSU should be described as a flagship, however, I wanted to make a couple of comments. First, regarding the citations, the first is cited to show that the antecedents of both Florida and Florida State were created in the same year, and the second is to a document where the USA Today lists FSU amongst 75 "flagship" universities. Also, there has been an extensive debate over on the University of Florida talk page regarding this issue [7], and presumably both pages should eventually reflect the same conclusion.

Some further evidence to consider:

FSU at times regards itself as a flagship:

"We've been fortunate to have had some success in terms of legislative commitment to higher education and the state's flagship universities. Last year's salary increase was the largest in more than a decade. The Legislature allocated nearly $36 million of a $100 million three-year commitment, to be shared by FSU and the University of Florida to build major research and economic development facilities."

http://president.fsu.edu/state/

At other times, including e.g. the faculty senate, it appears not to:

"This could be good for FSU since we tend to think of FSU as the other Florida flagship university, but we are one of four or five “Research I” schools in the SUS, and Tallahassee lacks the political clout of the areas served by some others."

http://facsenate.fsu.edu/minutes/FSMinutes1-24-07.pdf

Cka3n 06:27, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

I believe the "flagship" reference should remain as is with regard to FSU. There is substantial evidence to suggest it meets the Wikipedia flagship definition alone, which relies heavily on the Berdahl speech, in addition to myriad other references from the university and outside the university.

This section, copied directly from Berdahl's speech (see: http://cio.chance.berkeley.edu/chancellor/sp/flagship.htm) (Robert Berdahl, former University of California, Berkeley chancellor) is most telling why FSU is indeed a flagship university: "In most cases, these institutions were the first public universities to be established in their states. Many of what we now call the flagship campuses were established in the extraordinary period of university building that took place in the United States in the roughly three decades from the mid-1850s to the mid-1880s. Many came into being after the Morrill Act of 1863 provided the federal grants of land to the states to establish public universities. Some states built two institutions, a land-grant college focused on agriculture and the "mechanical arts" as well as general education, and another more directed at classical education and the other professions." Sirberus 12:46, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

While I appreciate your point, how would you address the concern that, by applying Berdahl's speech, we Wikipedian's are judging whether or not FSU is a flagship (as opposed to reporting how FSU, the state of Florida, or other authorities see the issue)?Cka3n 14:03, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Not sure I know what you mean, but a preponderence of the evidence appears to show that FSU fits right in with the criteria specified by Berdahl for flagship universities. While Berdahl was not specifically speaking about FSU and UF at the time (that is at least apparent from his words in this text), the pattern he drew in 1998 with his analysis fits the two schools even today. To me, even as an FSU alumnus, I was put off by the "flagship" title until I read the Wikipedia (university) definition based mostly on Berdahl's analysis. Once I digested his analysis, I saw the pattern he was describing as fitting UF and FSU perfectly when you review the history of both universities.

Confusion and disagreement come into play as some folks interpret the term "flagship" as meaning the university with the current lead or best rankings. I think this interpretation is incorrect, as universities are much more than current magazine rankings, FTIC stats or passionate fans. Berdahl appears to see flagship universities as originating and integral parts of the history and base fabric of higher education in a particular state. I have been persuaded to his view by his speech and my continuing analysis of the facts and history of FSU in particular and UF by happenstance. In fact, reverting to the meaning of the original naval term "flagship" we see that it tends to be one ship over time where the "flag" officer is based, not the fastest ship or the newest ship or even the best equipped ship, which appears to be more consistent with Dr. Berdahl's definition. Sirberus 15:34, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

My point was that Wikipedia should not be the place of interpretation, especially if there is any controversy regarding the interpretation. If outside authority calls Florida State a "flagship university," let Wikipedia report it. If no outside authority makes such a claim, then no such claim should be included.Cka3n 15:50, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Not sure I will go all the way with you on that (and I mean that nicely :-) ), but I do agree with WP:POV and work to try and be fair, with accurate references and reasoned presentation.Sirberus 17:11, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Well said, Cka3n. I agree completely. That there has been sufficient reliable and notable evidence to establish FSU's flagship claim means that we must include it. That I do not personally agree with the assertion matters not - it's been documented and NPOV demands we include it. --ElKevbo 17:23, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Not intending to flog a dead horse, but here is one authoritative document I came across that deserves notice with regard to this area. Here, then Governor Bush announces his "Twenty Percent Plan" for Florida. See: http://www.puaf.umd.edu/puaf650-Fullinwider/handouts-AA-Florida%20Plan.htm In this plan, the Governor of Florida refers to both FSU and UF as "flagship" universities: "In addition, the "cascading" effect, or the reduction of minority students in our flagship universities that many critics of the One Florida plan predicted would happen, did not occur. In fact, minority enrollment actually flowed upwards toward the flagship universities. Combined, Florida State University and the University of Florida enrolled 577 more African-American and Hispanic first-time-in-college students than were enrolled last year." Sirberus 12:33, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

New pages for faculty and alumni

I established new pages for notable fsu faculty here:Florida State University Notable Faculty and notable fsu alumni here: Florida State University Notable Alumni. Please add additional faculty and alumni names to those pages.Sirberus 21:03, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Merger with song

Yes to merge. If this song is really important, it should be merged with FSU. Decoratrix 20:56, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

No to merge. We appear to already have a version. I like Porsche's idea.Sirberus 00:35, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

No to merge. I think it's more appropriate to merge it with this article instead. It's the fight song (athletics), not the alma mater.--Porsche997SBS 20:01, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Panama City Campus

Please add FSU Panama City campus information.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.237.178.195 (talk • contribs) 00:17, 5 May 2007 (UTC).

Will do.Sirberus 18:23, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

reassessment request

Hi there! UkrNole 485 requested a reassessment of this article from WikiProject Universities. After reading it over this afternoon, my opinion would be that the article is not ready to be rated higher than GA-Class. Frankly, I never would have called it GA-Class in the first place; much of the article is still "messy" in terms of prose and proofreading (I made a few changes today as I read). I'd suggest finding someone from the League of Copyeditors to go through and clean everything up. Also, consider going through the Manual of Style to double check that everything here matches what's been established there. Cheers! Esrever 21:34, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

The version of this article that was rated GA is available at the posted link on this page. The current version is substantially different, as is wont to happen on Wikipedia. Sirberus 19:30, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

FSU Seminoles Page

Working on the Athletic Site - help would be appreciated UkrNole 485 00:40, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject_Florida_State_University

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Florida_State_University

This Wikiproject was created to improve all pages in reference to Florida State: Athletics, academics, discoveries and people. Look at Georgia Tech's Wikiproject, we should model ours after theirs. UkrNole 485 00:49, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

FSU Rugby Club

According to the campus newspaper FSView, the first school sanctioned club of ruggers started in 1972. The founders were all male and wished to meet girls through playing rugby wherever rugby was to be played. The Women's Rugby Club was form three years later and since then both teams have won numerous championships. The Men's Club made it all the way to California in 2005 to play the National Championship of the Matrix season. Both teams are known for their strong determination, wild socials, and comraderie. As they strive through the 2007 fall season they have been recognized around the FSU Campus as a formidable force.68.42.52.150 20:31, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Two research flagships?

Please see the University of South Florida article, USF became the third flagship in 2007. Please edit the lead section accordingly. Mike H. Celebrating three years of being hotter than Paris 05:39, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

FSU's use of the term "flagship" should not be read to mean "research flagship", even if that term applies under the differential tuition law passed by the Florida Legislature. If you follow the references regarding the flagship term you'll find that the current reference refers to FSU and UF being the first created universities in Florida and so on. Extensive discussion regarding this history may be found in the FSU discussion archives.

Accordingly, USF, though it could be considered one of the "research flagship" universities of Florida under the new law, is not one of the original, nor primary universities of Florida as extensively discussed. The text should therefore not be changed. Sirberus 08:26, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

• • Agreed, Sirberus. Mike850 20:13, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

• • Agreed as long as it doesn't degrade FSU. UkrNole 485 02:36, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Student Life edit

Yesterday I made an edit to the "student life" subsection. I added a small section about the school's longtime status as a party school. Two citations were added to reference the claims I had made. There was no reason for this paragraph to be deleted. The party scene of any school is a very important component and reflection of student life, it doesn't take much experience to be aware of that. If the person that deleted the section reads this, an explanation is owed to me, thank you!

-Blaze33541 04:03, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

I didn't delete your edits but I do not find these particular remarks constructive nor meeting WP:SOURCES. The FSU pages have many areas that could be further developed, perhaps you can make your point with better data? Sirberus 13:16, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Not Constructive and not needed, other schools have "longtime" party school status, a second vote for NO here. UkrNole 485 02:35, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

I don't mean to get personal here, but some people actually get social in college, outside of going on the internet and/or the library. Maybe it's not important to YOU, but it is to ME, in fact that aspect of the school is a major reason why I am going there next fall. This encyclopedia is not a place for you to impose your will on me, especially when I am not imposing mine on you. A major component of the social fabric of a school is quite constructive, especially when included in the "student life" section.Blaze33541 00:11, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Maybe you could find a way to present the social aspect of FSU that you find enjoyable in a way that evenly discusses the range of activities typically found at universities with a vibrant social life versus one where underage students drink illegally and get hurt or arrested. Calling FSU a "party" school unfortunately brings the negative aspect to mind. I'm sure there would be a way to do this that makes your point while being acceptable to those of us who care about the university and the article. Wikipedia works by consensus. No one owns this article, but a lot of people care about it. A balanced and well-documented segment would work for me. You might try looking at other university articles on Wikipedia for style or ideas. Sirberus 01:03, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Well said points, thank you for the input.Blaze33541 05:46, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Translation of the Latin motto

Is the translation of "mores" the official FSU translation? The translation seems wrong to me. I would suggest translating it as, "character" or "morals." Morals seems to me to be the most obvious translation of "mores" for a university motto. Ask yourself: Do you think that FSU is attempting to build strong moral characters in its students (which is one sense of the word mores in the plural), or, rather, trying to shape the customs and manners of its students--as the translation suggests? It seems silly to think that a university would cite such a banal goal in their motto. Instead, translate "mores" as "character" or "morals," that is more fitting with the conext.

I cite the Lewis and Short Latin Dictionary[8]. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jkominki (talk • contribs) 18:31, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Mores is officially translated as "character" according to the university: https://www.identityguide.fsu.edu/pages/usage_seal.html

I will change the page accordingly. Thanks for catching that. Sirberus 22:10, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Great. I am glad that this has been rectified. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.216.71.214 (talk) 22:42, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Really nice free image on Flickr

See here. Beautiful sunset behind a building, and licensed CC-BY. Don't know what it is but you may want to use it in this article. Daniel Case (talk) 03:26, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Thank you! Sirberus (talk) 12:34, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

First Tier Research Universities

University of South Florida was also placed in the first tier of research universities by the Florida legislature in 2007. The lead section should be edited accordingly.Phantasmrenegade (talk) 06:09, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

We discussed this issue before, above. Sirberus (talk) 09:30, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

• UF & FSU were approved to increase Tuition by 40%. However, only USF was allowed to raise by 30%. Jccort (talk) 14:10, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

This article

is very nicely written and has good pictures. LightSpeed3 (talk) 00:06, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

• Thank you! Those of us working on the article have worked to find the best graphics and create a decent article.Sirberus (talk) 16:44, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Featured Article

I feel on my assesment of the article within the scope of the FSU WikiprojeCt that this is a signature article and should reflect all of eveveryone's hard work - UkrNole 485 (talk) 13:37, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Pictures

I will be on campus today taking more pictures to upload, the new chem, bio and track buildings are complete--Nolephin (talk) 12:38, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

What do you think of the panoramic I added? FSU Guy (talk) 00:37, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Looks good. 192.136.15.130 (talk) 14:31, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

A nice shot. Sirberus (talk) 09:43, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Move College of Engineering

I have proposed moving Florida State University College of Engineering to FAMU - FSU College of Engineering —(Discuss)— The college is a joint venture of Florida A&M University and Florida State University, and the article name should reflect that. -- Donald Albury 14:24, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

The FAMU-FSU College of Engineering is also 80% owned, staffed and attended by FSU faculty and students. I think the current article accurately relates the sharing with FAMU.12.35.160.162 (talk) 00:23, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Nope FSU is the main partner, and FAMU is the junior member in the relationship. Jccort (talk) 00:58, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Use of logo - National High Magnetic Field Laboratory

The Mag Lab logo represents its status as subdivision of Florida State University as evidenced through this organizational page of the university: http://www.fsu.edu/departments/ and also in the design of the logo itself. I see no reason why use of this logo on the main FSU page should be prohibited. If we need to correct the "fair use" rational for the logo that is fine; perhaps that is unclear and needs work.Sirberus (talk) 21:47, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

• The use of fair use images is strictly limited on Wikipedia. There's already an article for National High Magnetic Field Laboratory. The use of the laboratory's logo on that article is appropriate. The use of it on the Florida State University article is decorative in nature and unneeded. Further, you're added a free license image that serves the purpose [9]. --Hammersoft (talk) 23:07, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Flagship University Info

Here is a reference where then Governor Jeb Bush refers to FSU and UF as "flagship" universities. Please use as a reference as needed.

The most authoritative source I have found that categorizes universities in Florida's SUS is here:

http://www.puaf.umd.edu/puaf650-Fullinwider/handouts-AA-Florida%20Plan.htm

In this article we find that then Gov. Bush explicitly calls FSU and UF "flagship universities":

Among the notable impacts of One Florida: Of the additional 3,202 first-time-in-college students entering the university system whose race and ethnicity could be determined, minority student enrollment accounted for almost 40%, or 1,234, of that increase. Each of the 10 universities increased the percentage of its entering class who are African-American. Furthermore, the rate of growth for minority students at Florida State University and the University of Florida far outstripped overall university system growth and the growth of white students. For example, while system-wide enrollment grew by approximately 11%, the number of African-Americans at Florida State University grew by 21% and the number of African-Americans at the University of Florida grew by 33%. In addition, the number of Hispanics at Florida State grew by 24%, while the number of Hispanics at the University of Florida increased by 19%.

In addition, the "cascading" effect, or the reduction of minority students in our flagship universities that many critics of the One Florida plan predicted would happen, did not occur. In fact, minority enrollment actually flowed upwards toward the flagship universities. Combined, Florida State University and the University of Florida enrolled 577 more African-American and Hispanic first-time-in-college students than were enrolled last year. Governor Bush and Chancellor Herbert were joined by presidents and provosts of universities that showed some of the greatest minority gains, including University of Central Florida President John Hitt, and Provosts Larry Abele of Florida State University, David Colburn of the University of Florida, and Richard Osborne of Florida Atlantic University.

Sirberus (talk) 12:00, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Seminole Firewater

An editor has added a section to the article concerning the concoction called Seminole Firewater http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_State#Seminole_Firewater , which was obviously an early attempt at a sports drink by the FSU team physician in the early 1960s. The reference posted for the entry appears genuine and I do not dispute the accuracy of the entry nor the reference (a Tampa Tribune article from 1962).

It appears that this could have been the genesis of the patented sports drink Gatorade, which everyone knows came from the University of Florida. It is entirely possible that the Seminole Firewater idea was seized by folks at UF from the newspaper article and patented before FSU could get it done. UF subsequently crows about Gatorade the same way FSU trumpets commercial development of Taxol. Indeed, if I had to choose between the two, I'd still choose Taxol as it is much more significant and noteworthy than a sugar and salt water sports drink as Taxol still likely ranks as the most significant contribution from any Florida university to date.

My point is that while this entry is likely red meat to FSU Seminoles fans in effort to clobber the Gators, it detracts from what should be an accurate and relevant encyclopedia article. Certainly this salty historic tidbit does not rate the same prominence as the FSU Physics Department work in high energy physics or the Mag Lab in my opinion.

Consequently, I suggest we DELETE this entry or MOVE it to another article, maybe an FSU sports article.

Sirberus (talk) 13:57, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

Agreed. Entirely ignoring the point that "Seminole Firewater" was a simple addition of salt to a drink (Which Florida, among numerous others were also doing. Salt tablets have been around in athletics for a long, long time), while Gatorade is notable for using numerous salts in proportion to how much of each kind of salt is sweated out to try and maintain electrolyte balance (There's a reason it was developed by a nephrologist)... is it really notable? Should we highlight every instance of salt tablets? The only time I ever hear Seminole Firewater brought up is when FSU fans are trying to rankle UF fans, without understanding what made Gatorade more than a mere "salt water sports drink" (Although we're in agreement that Taxol is certainly more beneficial for society, I'd probably disagree that it's "the most significant contribution from any Florida University"... FSU's High Magnetic research lab and UF's Gene Therapy research lab both crank out tons of meaningful research annually). Being Bold, and removing. FrYGuY (talk) 14:44, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

To be more accurate, as we should not minimize what keeps this issue alive and someone wonder what the hubbub is about, the posted reference from 1962 says the FSU team physician combined a lime drink with sugar and salt. This is remarkably similar to what Gatorade came out as in 1965 as a patented product. This story will live forever, probably, like the Lane Fenner touchdown.

Sirberus (talk) 12:15, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Quoting myself: Entirely ignoring the point that "Seminole Firewater" was a simple addition of salt to a drink (Which Florida, among numerous others were also doing. Salt tablets have been around in athletics for a long, long time), while Gatorade is notable for using numerous salts in proportion to how much of each kind of salt is sweated out to try and maintain electrolyte balance (There's a reason it was developed by a nephrologist)...

Wow. It's like I answered you before you even wrote anything!

Like I said. Gatorade is not patented for being "A drink. With Salt!". Gatorade was patented because the levels of salts (plural) were specifically, judiciously chosen by proportions of what salts (again, plural) were lost in exorcise. Consuming salt (singular) has long been known to help endurance, and many coaches, from well before Gatorade was invented to the present, have known that and given their players salt tablets. The originality was that the research had been done into WHY it helped, HOW it helped, and what would be done to make it more effective. FSU was not the only team prior to Gatorade which had drinks with salt in it to help endurance. Florida had done the same. So had Alabama. And Texas A&M. Tons of schools in the south had. Gatorade, however, was a result of the first attempt to analyze the reason WHY salt helped, what other salts would help, and what proportion the salts would need to be in with each other and water. At the time, it was pretty impressive research. "Seminole Firewater" was simply a name slapped on FSU's version of a fairly common endurance aid. -FrYGuY (talk) 21:59, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

Whether the "flagship" status of a university can be presented as objective fact

There is currently an RfC on this question at Talk:University of Maine#Flagship RFC. ☺Coppertwig (talk) 12:45, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Yes. Florida's governor Bush said both FSU and UF are Florida's flagship universities. The organization also comports with the definition of UC Berkeley's Dr. Robert Berdahl. The history and law of Florida reconcile very well with this position of two flagship universities regardless of those who insist on a neat and clean organization. Reality is not always simple. It's simply real.

Sirberus (talk) 02:34, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

UF and FSU have been around since the 1850's and they are the two flagships of the State University System of Florida. They have the strongest academic programs, largest endowments, and numerous other factors for why the Florida Legislature and the citizens from the state of Florida give these two institions this distinction. Historically these two schools have been given this distinction for numerous generations. Over the last decade or so public non-flagship universities have started to take offense to the term flagship, and they are doing everything they can to downplay the term flagship. NorwalkJames (talk) 11:48, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Greek Life at Florida State University

Wikipedia is considering deleting the Greek Life at Florida State University article. User:Scpmarlins nominated for the article to be deleted after someone nominated to delete the Greek Life at the University of Central Florida article.Jccort (talk) 02:53, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

GA Reassessment

This discussion is transcluded from Talk:Florida State University/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the reassessment.

I will do the GA Reassessment on this article as part of the GA Sweeps project. H1nkles (talk) 20:15, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Lead

• Lead appears to be comprehensive though I haven't read the entire article. Traditionally the lead is not significantly referenced assuming the information is referenced in the body of the article. References in the lead would be duplicative. Not a big deal though.
• What is needed is Fair-Use rationale on the FSU logo in the lead. That is important as it pertains to the GA Criteria.  Done

• Also converted the logo to SVG format. --Sirberus (talk) 21:45, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

History

*In the Student soldiers section I added a template at the end of the paragraph. The rest of the paragraph is very-well referenced but the final assertion is not and should be.  Done

*In the Student activism sub-section there is a sentence about the governor sitting with students on Landis green and discussing politics. It is a bit superfluous and doesn't really add much to the article. On top of that there isn't a reference for it.  Done

*In fact the rest of this sub-section is poorly referenced, especially the final paragraph.

• This statement should be referenced, "Today, Florida State University aspires to become a top American research university with at least one-third of its graduate programs ranked in the Top-15 nationally."
• Shouldn't this statement go in the Athletics section rather than in the Student activism section? "The Jefferson-Eppes Trophy is exchanged between the University of Virginia and Florida State University after each football competition in recognition of the common roots shared between the two schools." H1nkles (talk) 20:39, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

 Done --Sirberus (talk) 14:13, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

National High Magnetic Field Laboratory

*I'm confused by this sentence, "FSU won the laboratory from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) and a consortium of other universities in 1990." How did FSU win the lab? Was there a competition? I'm intrigued by this idea of winning a lab. Can this be expanded?

 Done --Sirberus (talk) 18:23, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Campus

*In-line citations should go on the outside of the punctuation mark. I fixed one and left one in this section as an example.

• "...the Starbucks coffee stand situated in the entrance to the library is now also open 24 hours during Fall and Spring as well..." Is this detail really necessary?
• This is more of a general comment, I notice that at times the measurements are metric first and US measured units in parentheses, other times this is reversed. Per WP:UNIT in US-related articles the US measured unit (feet, acres, lbs) should be first followed by the metric conversion.

 Done --Sirberus (talk) 18:41, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Activities

• The first half of this sub-section is unreferenced.

 Done --Sirberus (talk) 21:20, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Greek life

*Does the reference in this section cover the list of Fraternities and Sororities as well? The link doesn't seem to outline the various sororities and fraternities but I didn't explore very much. If not then the table in this section should be referenced.

• Yes, I think the existing references adequately cover the topic. I added two general references to the tables just to be sure.

 Done --Sirberus (talk) 12:05, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

Athletics

• "In the 2007-08 season the FSU's Women's Cross Country team won the ACC championship, which took place at the University of Virginia" Why is this information here? It seems a little too detailed unless the article is going to list every ACC championship that FSU won, which I don't think it does, and which I would not recommend as the article is already long. I recommend removing this statement.
• "Mike Long Track is the home of the three-time back-to-back-to-back national champion men's outdoor track and field team.[149]" Again, back-to-back-to-back national champions. Is that detail necessary? They aren't the current national champions correct? The link is a dated reference to the team's visit with then-President Bush. The detail within the sentence is a little puffed up in my opinion.

• Reworked this a bit, deleted excess detail.

 Done --Sirberus (talk) 12:23, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

Overall comments

I have a couple of concerns with this article:

*There are several areas where referencing could be improved. I've listed some of them above. For the most part the referencing is fairly comprehensive but there are holes that should be plugged.  Done --Sirberus (talk) 14:15, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

• There are many dead links in the reference section. Here is a list by reference number: 6, 15, 16, 25, 37, 38, 46, 53, 58, 59, 65, 77, 85, 100, 102, 109, 111, 113, 121, 123, 143, 155.  Done --Sirberus (talk) 14:13, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
• The formatting of the references is not consistent, some references are just a website, per WP:CITE the publisher and accessdate are minimally required.

 Done It now meets standard and is substantially more uniform in formatting. Updates have been performed as well. --Sirberus (talk) 10:22, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

• I am concerned about the strong pro-FSU tenor of the article. After the History section the article reads like a promotional brochure. I'd like to see more balanced writing that also discusses some of the controversies, and difficulties the university has gone through. This is to comply with WP:POV guidelines. This is certainly an opinion and people are free to disagree, I'd be happy to discuss this with you here if you'd like.

• I have eliminated many areas of promotional language that have crept into the article. It still needs work, which I am trying to address. --Sirberus (talk) 10:22, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

(Outdent) overall the writing is solid, the content is fairly current, the images are solid save one Fair Use rationale needed in the Lead image, article is stable. Where it falls short currently is in referencing and MOS compliance specifically POV. I'll put the article on hold for a week and notify interested projects and editors. Please contact me on my talk page if you have questions or would like to discuss the contents of this review. H1nkles (talk) 21:33, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

• Comments on "dead" links:

With regard to ref #15, the article has since been archived and is still available - perhaps for a fee. There is sufficient identifying detail in the cite to secure the original article from the archive, so I don't consider this a dead link. Please advise if you have a better idea. --Sirberus (talk) 13:07, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

• Cite 25 is not dead.
• Cite 37 is not dead.
• Cite 38 is not dead.
• Cite 46 is not dead.
• Cite 53 - fixed.
• Cite 58 is not dead.
• Cite 59 - With regard to ref #59, the article has since been archived and is still available - perhaps for a fee. There is sufficient identifying detail in the cite to secure the original article from the archive, so I don't consider this a dead link. As before, if there is a better way to handle this please advise.
• Cite 65 - fixed.
• Cites 77 to 113 are not dead.
• Cite 121 - fixed.
• Cite 123 is not dead.
• Cites 143 and 155 - fixed.

I'm not sure why you posted so many cites/links that work fine for me and properly reference the material. Maybe a browser issue? Regardless, I've checked them and they seem fine. --Sirberus (talk) 14:17, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

(outdent) Thank you for your work on this article. It has been on hold for a while, primarily due to my lack of editing time, for which I apologize. I'm not sure why I picked up so many dead links, could be a browser issue. I used the link check tool but then went back in when I saw so many dead links and checked many (admittedly not all) manually and confirmed that they were dead. At any rate thanks for your work. There are places where more references could be added and the writing is a little weak. But in an article of this size there will always be places to improve. I believe the review has served its purpose, thanks to your efforts the article is significantly improved and as such I'll keep it at GA. Thank you! H1nkles (talk) 16:01, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Note for all editors

Please use standard citations per WP:CITE when inserting references into all FSU articles. This standard usage will make all our lives easier. It's easy - all you do is copy the correct template over, delete what is unnecessary, add your data and the ref /ref switches and voila! you have a standard citation everyone loves. Thank you! --Sirberus (talk) 19:53, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Minor Problem With Lead?

"The Florida State University athletics programs are favorites of passionate students, fans and alumni across the United States, especially when led by the Marching Chiefs of the FSU College of Music." Does this sentence seem awkward to anyone else? It strikes me as an attempt to squeeze in a reference to the Marching Chiefs. Can it be cited from anywhere that the Marching Chiefs "especially" make athletic programs "favorites" of all these people? Of course I agree that the Marching chiefs are worth mentioning, but does anyone object to rewording the lead a bit to get rid of this strange sentence? Jwhosler (talk) 13:33, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

How would you rewrite the sentence? One possible reference as to one tradition led by the Chiefs may be found here: http://www.seminoles.com/trads/fsu-trads-chant.html --Sirberus (talk) 01:25, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Predecessor Institutions and Dates - FSU and U Florida

I disagree with attempts to equate the dates of the commonly known predecessor schools of FSU and UF for a very simple reason - UF uses a predecessor school date of an institution (EFS) that played only a minor role in the establishment of the university known today as UFlorida. The primary predecessor of UF was the Florida Ag College (FAC) in Lake City, FL which was established in 1884. Records show that the faculty and library of FAC moved to Gainesville from Lake City and I have found scant contribution from EFS to the new school in records. That UF President Tigert claimed the 1853 date is specious and misleading, as the EFS ceased to exist during the Civil War and then started afresh only years later in a different town.

Different entirely is FSU's use of 1851, which was claimed by the school long before the Buckman Act and represents the primary predecessor of the university known today as Florida State. FSU's use of the 1851 date is not only historic and accurate, it also comports with the way other universities claim an establishment date.

The correct establishment date for U Florida, should they ever have a mind to finally get it right, would be to claim either 1851 (the state seminary establishment date, with the weaknesses of EFS cited above) or 1884 (the FAC establishment date) or 1905 (their original Buckman date). --Sirberus (talk) 23:07, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

I'm not sure what the contention is. It is obvious that the 1851 date used by FSU is the date the seminaries were established, and that's what the source says.--Cúchullain ^t/c 00:10, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

The 1857 date information is irrelevant and unnecessarily contentious. Only a U Florida-centric editor would persist in this area, especially since this article has already been not only peer-reviewed but also scrutinized for GA status twice. Not once did an independent editor recommend such dates or detail be covered. The only reason to broach this subject is to justify date claims by the rival school. It is needless edit warring. --Sirberus (talk) 03:11, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

I am not a U Florida-centric editor. I added the 1857 date because it has been used by the school itself. I don't understand why that would be contentious.--Cúchullain ^t/c 11:26, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

I took a peek at your contributions and I note that you are an Administrator on Wikipedia. I also note that you spend most of your time on UFlorida subjects and not Florida State University subjects. You almost never edit FSU pages...except now - to cleverly delete peer reviewed information without being obvious and then to start an edit war on an issue only UF supporters would care about. Please think about directing your energies to more constructive edits. --Sirberus (talk) 11:41, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

Oh, come off it. I'm not some kind of UF backer, and it wouldn't matter if I was so long as my edits are sound. And "peer review" around here is very informal, it's not a shock if something is missed. Are you honestly arguing that FSU has never used the 1857 date? These sources[10] [11] and [12] show that it has.--Cúchullain ^t/c 12:05, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

This article from the St. Pete Times explains the controversy: http://www.sptimes.com/News/072900/State/FSU_s_age_change__his.shtml Your edits are not constructive and are calculated to pick a fight. --Sirberus (talk) 15:08, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

Please assume good faith. I truly do not understand why this has become such an issue. The new source supports my edit entirely, I'll be adding that in soon.--Cúchullain ^t/c 15:45, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

Okay, I've added your cite, and my note now says literally nothing that doesn't appear there. I feel we really ought to explain why there are two founding dates, as it really confused me when I first saw them.--Cúchullain ^t/c 15:58, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

You haven't shown good faith. All you have done is: 1. - Remove peer-reviewed information from the History of Florida State University article in a surreptitious manner. Editors operating in good faith are transparent and discuss what they are doing when they do it. Only when challenged did you admit what you deleted. 2. - Try and inflame an old college rivalry dispute and edit war by deleting a solid reference and link to the State Archives of Florida and replace it with irrelevant dispute-related information. 3. - When you are given a credible reference of the nature of the dispute and the fact it affects UFlorida as well as Florida State, you show only determination to damage the FSU page in a fresh guise of helpfulness. Please note that this FSU page has been reviewed multiple times by seemingly unbiased editors, even twice for GA status, yet no other editor showed the slightest interest in discussing or covering a very ignorable controversy. 4. - As an editor you show no intention of proportionality, in that obviously this date change affects UFlorida as well, but the date on the UFlorida page remains unremarked and bears no footnote, showing your biased cognizance of the actual dispute. This fact alone points plainly to your agenda to besmirch a rival university's Wikipedia pages. You don't act confused at all, you act caught with your fingers in the cookie jar. Please stop. Your contributions on these pages are not helpful.

--Sirberus (talk) 21:08, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

This is ridiculous, just ridiculous. The only thing I removed from History of Florida State University was not "peer reviewed", it was one sentence of entirely unsourced original research, added by you. My edit could be seen by anyone. I have no intention of "inflaming an old college rivaly dispute", but it seems certain single-purpose editors are determined to see any edit they don't agree with as an affront. This is horribly unproductive: no one owns this article. On the Good Article reviews: so? Things get missed all the time. I see you haven't stopped editing the article simply because it has been reviewed. On the University of Florida, it already explains the issue with the founding date. Please do your research before casting aspersions and ridiculous ad hominem attacks. However, I will be adding the same source you added to the University of Florida page. I doubt it will be seen as an affront to the school's good name.--Cúchullain ^t/c 21:59, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

Additionally, the St. Pete Times source, which you brought up here, is a better source than the timeline by any measure. The entirety of what the timeline says is: "1851: Legislature passes bill to create two colleges, the West Florida Seminary (later became Florida State University) and the East Florida Seminary (later the University of Florida)." That's it. The Times article, on the other hand, discusses the issue of the founding dates in detail.--Cúchullain ^t/c 22:22, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

Cuchullain, the charges against you are correct. You aren't acting in good faith. You've had ample opportunity to be even-handed in this discussion and haven't shown any sense of balance in an obvious origin date dispute between Florida State and UFlorida. There is nothing discussing the date dispute on the UFlorida pages and while you've spent considerable time on FSU pages in the past few days ensuring the dispute is covered, you've shown no action to add this bi-lateral dispute to the UFlorida pages about their date change from 1905 to 1853 initiated by President Tigert because he didn't want UFlorida to be last in ceremonial processions. There is no footnote by the "1853", nor detail showing how they started the whole dispute. I would have nothing to say about your edits had you done a balanced job of covering this minor flap between the schools. If you want to jump into the pool of editing rival university pages, there is a correct way to proceed and also ignorant, clumsy attempts at smack talk, disguised as smarmy helpfulness. One could easily come to the conclusion you are biased against Florida State. Further, in your surreptitious deletion of peer-reviewed material in the History of Florida State University article, you could have easily put a tag on claims you felt were not properly referenced, which is standard practice. You did not even allow this common courtesy, that any author concerned could either address the suggested weakness or modify the claim through a discussion on the Talk page. You did neither. And you are an Administrator, to boot - an expert of the conventions of Wikipedia, with power to punish common editors. For shame! Even though you have been repeatedly challenged on your lack of balance and objectivity, you don't work to improve or address concerns. The best you can muster in your defense is whine about being attacked, yet you show no awareness of what I am actually saying to you as you are so blinded by your desire to push your UFlorida agenda. Please stop or, as it says in the St. Pete Times article, "grow up"! Additionally, the St. Pete Times article is not a superior reference to the State Archives, as the article contains opinion and not facts that are referenced. The state Timeline is carefully vetted by experts and puts forth unbiased summaries of historic events in the State of Florida. The Timeline is authoritative, the article is not. --Sirberus ([[User talk:Sirberus|talk]]) 11:12, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

I see you have finally added a footnote to the UF pages - good. Now you should put back the Timeline reference to the FSU cite as it is authoritative. Further, I hope you now realize this dispute is one of those things best left to the dustbin of history. No one cares about this stuff except FSU and UF supporters and it doesn't rate as encyclopedia material. --Sirberus (talk) 12:53, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

This isn't an intercollegiate rivalry dispute, you're turning it into one by insisting that any edits you don't agree with must be "anti-Florida State" and "pro-UF". I suppose this isn't surprising for someone who has made few, if any, edits not related to Florida State. Any reasonable editor can see that the University of Florida article already discussed the founding date. Currently footnote 5. The note I added to the infobox is basically redundant with what was there already. Additionally, anyone familiar with our no original research and verifiability policies would agree that I was justified in removing your unsourced OR from the History of Florida State article. To return to the contention at this article, I am not going to restore the timeline, for the simple reason that it doesn't support what you want it to support. It doesn't say that 1851 is the date FSU was founded, or even that FSU claims that to be when it was founded, it just says "1851: Legislature passes bill to create two colleges..."--Cúchullain ^t/c 13:14, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

This establishment date issue is a controversy. It is a stupid dispute, but it irritates FSU supporters and UFlorida supporters. Rivalries, such as this dispute, exist because of passionate people and there are plenty of passionate alumni of these schools that edit Wikipedia. The FSU articles (the main page and the History of Florida State University page) are generally high quality and have excellent references. I wrote a lot of the articles you elected to edit and I know the material and the references. I work very hard to find the best references which is no easy task as most of the aspects I enjoy are history, and it is hard work finding the references. I also know, from extensive experience with Wikipedia, that UFlorida fans vandalize FSU pages most often. Over time a kind of mutual respect has emerged, as serious Florida State and UFlorida editors are actually trying to build good encyclopedia pages. There is a lot of cross-over history between these two schools. Rivalries are usually fun, in general, as long as you play by the rules of mutual respect and are transparent and innocent. Your initial edit to the History of FSU page was a sneaky way to delete data that bugged you. What you deleted and the way you deleted it suggests strongly you are a UF-centric editor. (Oh yes - putting a UNF sticker on your user page is a feeble attempt to say otherwise, especially after the fact) The best UFlorida editors long ago gave sneakiness up and now are transparent and helpful. In return, out of respect, I try to ensure their pages, loaded with UFlorida POV in my opinion, don't get screwed with by FSU ninnies who want to disturb the peace. FSU pages are likely loaded with FSU POV in their opinion as well, which is also fine - with good referencing. Of course, this is Wikipedia, the encyclopedia anyone can edit - even nincompoops and biased administrators. That is why the pages look like they do, with quality transcending into ridiculous and ignorable junk from one sentence to the next.

Moreover, the date controversy was not covered on the UFlorida pages until you introduced that high-quality reference I gave you. Your earlier reference work was very weak and indicates considerable sloppiness and lack of concern for the best evidence. Some mention of "1905" on their pages does not address the date controversy in the least. It is silly to suggest that it does. Further, your claim of "original research" when the reader can very well reach their own conclusion based on a series of high quality references comes across as Wikipedia-style manipulation, where many are made timid by the mere mention of one of the many Wikipedia shibboleths. That is pure crap in this instance. The references, if compared, clearly lead the reader to the conclusion FSU and its predecessor schools are older than UF and its predecessor schools. This fact annoys may UFlorida supporters, but the references don't lie. They speak for themselves.

So what to do? Easy - strike a consensus. Here's what I'll do as my part - I'll restore the State Archives reference and also keep the date controversy article reference. You make sure the same date controversy reference stays on the UFlorida page. If theirs disappears, I'll feel free to dump it here. Parity - as this is a controversy, as long as it exists, we're ok. Secondly, don't do any more sneaky edits. I have a lot of FSU reference materials and may well have one for some fact you want to question. Since I have a life, I don't devote all my time to Wikipedia. Put a tag on what bugs you and I'll see if I can fix it - over time. Deal? --Sirberus (talk) 11:32, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

More ad hominem nonsense from a veteran single-purpose account. I'm not rising to it. Perhaps one day you will understand that not all people in the world can be neatly categorized as rabid Florida State or University of Florida fans, and that good edits like this one don't become bad based on where someone went to school. Perhaps you will also come to understand that people don't typically respond well to such a confrontational and captious attitude. I've added the timeline as a second source in the infobox, despite it not saying what you believe it says; hopefully this ends this ridiculous dispute.--Cúchullain ^t/c 13:11, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

Looking at it, my edit to History of Florida State was obscured only due to a text wrapping issue. This was the result of your misuse of the markup in that section.--Cúchullain ^t/c 13:25, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for perfecting the note regarding the date change issue. Good job. I think it tells a pretty good story now and is reasonably accurate. As far as I'm concerned our discussion on this date issue is at an end. I do have to wonder, though...if your initial deletion was concealed as a result of a text wrapping issue, and allegedly due to my ineptness with page markup, why do you mention such a thing now? Wouldn't it have made better sense to have addressed such a thing immediately, as when I commented about it some three days ago on your talk page? Our initial discussions were not confrontational nor unfriendly. Further, I don't expect our future conversations regarding the improvement of the History of Florida State University to be anything but cordial. If you feel otherwise, you may wish to step back from the articles. --Sirberus (talk) 02:50, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

I didn't notice what had happened exactly until I looked into it again yesterday. The whole thing would have been avoided if you had simply assumed good faith, as is expected of all Wikipedia editors, instead of assuming that I had magical edit-hiding powers and was using them to conceal a nefarious anti-FSU agenda. Avoid this in the future and there won't be any further problems. I am confident things can proceed in a more collegial fashion from here on.--Cúchullain ^t/c 13:05, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

"First university"

I rewrote the paragraph on Florida University/University of Florida to more accurately reflect what the sources say. According to these sources the West Florida Seminary did not become the Florida University, it became part of it (specifically it was the Literary College). It still had its own charter and independent organization within the University, which also included a medical college and intended to establish three other colleges. Additionally, the medical college did not move to Jacksonville until after the legislative session recognized the university as "University of Florida" but denied any additional support for the venture (the previous version implied it happened before).--Cúchullain ^t/c 14:59, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

This seems a distinction without a difference, since the med school was housed in the same building as the Literary College in Tallahassee. Indeed, the WFS and the med school were the University of Florida, as both were housed in the WFS buildings on Gallows Hill. Of all the colleges in the early University of Florida, two became reality: The Literary College (WFS) and the med school (housed at WFS). See: http://fulltext10.fcla.edu/cgi/t/text/pageviewer-idx?c=fhp;cc=fhp;sid=14d35a0780b2b3a9279b419651c08556;q1=florida;q2=university;q3=catalogue;q=florida%20university%20catalogue;op2=and;op3=and;rgn=works;rgn1=full%20text;rgn2=full%20text;rgn3=full%20text;idno=FS00000035;a=48;view=jpg;node=FS00000035%3A5;seq=7

As to why the University of Florida (1883) was underfunded by the legislature...a guess on my part is that the citizens resented "carpetbaggers" telling them what to build and just waited them out. --Sirberus (talk) 01:42, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

Well, I think there is a difference, in that the sources say pretty clearly that the Seminary was the Literary College of the University, and kept its own charter and organization within the university. As it played out the difference didn't amount to much, as the state wouldn't fund the project, and the medical college relocated and the other colleges were never created. But it's still an interesting footnote, and one we should get right.--Cúchullain ^t/c 03:44, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

FSU seal

Hey guys, I feel that the current seal at the top of the page could be improved. The actual seal is low resolution and the "Florida State University" subtitle is redundant.

I replaced it only to have it reverted back, with the edit summary saying that this topic has been discussed already before. However, I've searched through the archives and found nothing about it. I feel that the seal above more appropriately coincides with other successful university articles. See: University of Washington, University of Arizona, University of California, Los Angeles.

Should we update it? Gonk (talk) 06:35, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

I have no problem however i have official high quality images available from FSU OMNI. If it is Seconded ill upload it--UkrNole 485 (talk) 13:55, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

• Sure, I'd like to see what you have. I'm going to update the seal to the above image, but post what you've got here. Gonk (talk) 21:30, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

• • I am OK with either presentation. Sirberus (talk) 22:24, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

The colors on the new seal are a bit odd/outdated. I can't view the source site as it is password protected. Are we sure this is current? For comparison, color values used for official website purposes can be found on the right side of this page: http://webdesign.fsu.edu/. Agm2010 (talk) 06:07, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Music Fraternities

So I was reading through the greek section and noticed that Kappa Kappa Psi and Tau Beta Sigma were both mentioned in there but Phi Mu Alpha and Sigma Alpha Iota were not. All four are music fraternities officially recognized by the university. I don't know much about greek life and I'm not sure if there's a reason if they aren't on there so I thought I'd ask. Is there a reason? Ayzmo (talk) 01:28, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

LGBTQ Activisim

I'm not actually sure anybody comes here anymore but I thought I would see if anyone objects.

I wanted to add a section for LGBTQ activism in the student activism section. FSU has historically been quite active. An LGBTQ organization has existed on the campus since the 70's and has continued to exist to this day in the form of the Pride Student Union. Other notable events were a gay male, Bill Wade, winning the election for Homecoming Queen in 1980 under the name "Billy Dahling." There was a lot of uproar about it.(good overview: santababylonia.net/breath/dahhling.html)Not sure how to get to it but there's a St. Pete Times article cited here: fsuarchon.fcla.edu/index.php?p=collections/findingaid&id=68&q=&rootcontentid=4665) For the last several years there was an uproar over the university nondiscrimination policy brought on by a group named The Coalition For an Equitable Community including meetings with the Board of Trustees and T. K. Wetherell. The meetings with T. K. resulted in little more than him saying that no inclusive nondiscrimination policy would be put in place while he was president and him stopping just short of saying that LGBTQ students shouldn't be allowed to attend the university. Other events in that time included the defunding of several RSO's over a union nondiscrimination policy and a lawsuit threatened by one of them. Recent, following president Barron's installment the Board of Trustees approved a nondiscrimination policy for the entire university.(Article from the FSNews: http://www.fsunews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100705/FSVIEW/100702031)

I would be happy to do any work on the section but I figured that I would ask to see if anyone was opposed to the idea for any real reasons.Ayzmo (talk) 01:28, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

I don't think this subject rates inclusion in the main article as its own section. We mention political activism and racial activism in the History section in a sub-section titled Student Activism (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_State_University#Student_activism ). Each was especially notable in the very public History of the university. Less so is LGBTQ activities. I suggest LGBTQ be added there if you can provide sufficient referencing.Sirberus (talk) 11:59, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

Oh, I figured it would go under the sub-section. I just figured that was understood. I didn't mean to imply that a new header would be created but I guess my wording did suggest it a bit. It would take some digging up but some of the issues, including the Billy Dahling and more recent issues have caused some stir. I'll have to see if I can find enough actual sourcing.

So I've been working on the piece a little bit and it seems rather long. Any thoughts? [13] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ayzmo (talk • contribs) 19:03, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

I think your contributions have been helpful. While the article is long, there is a lot to tell. :-) Sirberus (talk) 23:10, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

I think the added section is too detailed and needs to be made much more concise. I suggest cutting it down by at least 2/3. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.254.191.128 (talk) 07:00, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

It's much, much too long and detailed. It now takes up fully half of that sub-section, despite being a less significant to the school's history than the 1960s student activism or integration. Not that it's not important, but it's not much different than anything that's happened at any number of other schools. By contrast, student activism has been widely discussed in works about FSU, to the point that it was one of the several colleges known as the "Berkeley of the South". Additionally, the citations are improperly formatted. This needs to be cut down to a sentence or two. Perhaps some of the material (properly cited, of course) can be added to the History of Florida State University article.--Cúchullain ^t/c 12:50, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

Agreed that it needs to be cut down though I think a sentence or two might be too little. I've cut it down some and removed some parts but I'm biased towards it and am not sure what to take out exactly. I guess part of the problem is that I was involved in everything from 2007 onward so it all seems quite important to me. If someone who is less involved is willing to prune it either there or on the my subpage[14] feel free to do so. Also, I think I've got the citations formatted correctly. I'll have to go back and format the ones I've added over time. Thanks for the imput. Ayzmo (talk) 15:54, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

Thanks Ayzmo. It's better, and we'll get there eventually. As I said I think a lot of this may have a place at History of Florida State University. But here on the main article we're bound by WP:WEIGHT and need to keep the proportion in mind.--Cúchullain ^t/c 16:06, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

WP:RECENTISM is another big issue. The history section covers over 150 years, and that very long paragraph deals with one series of events that occurred over the last 5.--Cúchullain ^t/c 16:13, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

I agree with Cuchullain. This section is too detailed. Recentism is an understatement. Sirberus (talk) 22:16, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

edit semi-protect: International Programs

Current: For over 50 years the Florida State University has operated a broad curriculum program in Panama City, Panama.[122] Students have full facilities, including the largest English-language library in the Republic of Panama, academic counseling, computer facilities, housing, research facilities, a gymnasium, and a cafeteria. The student population is generally international and comes from the United States, the Republic of Panama and other countries. The Florida State University also operates year-round, semester programs in Florence, Italy; London, England and Valencia, Spain.[123] It also offers shorter programs abroad in Cairns, Australia; Salvador, Brazil; Tianjin, China; San José, Costa Rica; Dubrovnik, Croatia; Prague, Czech Republic; Napo, Ecuador; Oxford, England; Paris, France; Dublin, Ireland; Tokyo, Japan; Amsterdam, Netherlands; Moscow, Russia; and Leysin, Switzerland.[123]

Requested Edit:Florida State University’s International Programs (FSU IP) is nationally recognized on a consistent basis as one of the top 15 study abroad programs in the US. Over 1,600 students study abroad each year among the many locations offered. Students achieve FSU credit while completing coursework and gaining a true cultural experience. Notable university faculty and guest scholars from both FSU and the host countries teach the classes, in English. Each of the programs features intimate class sizes along with university guided learning excursions that enhance the program course work.

Florida State University has four of it’s very own study centers: London, England; Florence, Italy; Valencia, Spain; Panama City, Republic of Panama. All of these can be attended year-round during either the Fall, Spring, or Summer semesters and they each have a full-time on-site staff along with their own FSU building. Students are accommodated with housing with other students in their program. FSU also offers the opportunity for students to participate in shorter programs over the summer in Argentina, Brazil, China, Costa Rica, Croatia, Czech Republic, Ecuador, France, Israel, Peru, Russia, South Africa, Switzerland, Turkey, and Uruguay.

FSU International Programs also has the availability for both graduate and undergratuate students to attain an internship abroad. Placement is offered in Sydney, Australia; London, England; Florence, Italy; Panama City, Republic of Panama; Iquitos, Peru; and Valencia, Spain and generally over 13-week programs.

Reason for edit: The current gives adequate detail on the Panama City program and would make it seem as if this is FSU's main study abroad site, when in reality, all sites are equally as important. An edit gives more insight into all International Programs and the broad scope of them.

Kaseylizbeth (talk) 16:41, 6 November 2011 (UTC)Kasey Carroll 11/6/11

edit semi-protect: International Programs

Current: For over 50 years the Florida State University has operated a broad curriculum program in Panama City, Panama.[122] Students have full facilities, including the largest English-language library in the Republic of Panama, academic counseling, computer facilities, housing, research facilities, a gymnasium, and a cafeteria. The student population is generally international and comes from the United States, the Republic of Panama and other countries. The Florida State University also operates year-round, semester programs in Florence, Italy; London, England and Valencia, Spain.[123] It also offers shorter programs abroad in Cairns, Australia; Salvador, Brazil; Tianjin, China; San José, Costa Rica; Dubrovnik, Croatia; Prague, Czech Republic; Napo, Ecuador; Oxford, England; Paris, France; Dublin, Ireland; Tokyo, Japan; Amsterdam, Netherlands; Moscow, Russia; and Leysin, Switzerland.[123]

Requested Edit:Florida State University’s International Programs (FSU IP) is nationally recognized on a consistent basis as one of the top 15 study abroad programs in the US. Over 1,600 students study abroad each year among the many locations offered. Students achieve FSU credit while completing coursework and gaining a true cultural experience. Notable university faculty and guest scholars from both FSU and the host countries teach the classes, in English. Each of the programs features intimate class sizes along with university guided learning excursions that enhance the program course work.

Florida State University has four of it’s very own study centers: London, England; Florence, Italy; Valencia, Spain; Panama City, Republic of Panama. All of these can be attended year-round during either the Fall, Spring, or Summer semesters and they each have a full-time on-site staff along with their own FSU building. Students are accommodated with housing with other students in their program. FSU also offers the opportunity for students to participate in shorter programs over the summer in Argentina, Brazil, China, Costa Rica, Croatia, Czech Republic, Ecuador, France, Israel, Peru, Russia, South Africa, Switzerland, Turkey, and Uruguay.

FSU International Programs also has the availability for both graduate and undergratuate students to attain an internship abroad. Placement is offered in Sydney, Australia; London, England; Florence, Italy; Panama City, Republic of Panama; Iquitos, Peru; and Valencia, Spain and generally over 13-week programs.

Reason for edit: The current gives adequate detail on the Panama City program and would make it seem as if this is FSU's main study abroad site, when in reality, all sites are equally as important. An edit gives more insight into all International Programs and the broad scope of them.

Kaseylizbeth (talk) 16:41, 6 November 2011 (UTC)Kasey Carroll 11/6/11

I like it but it needs sourcing. I guess I could try to source it but if you could that would be cool.Ayzmo (talk) 21:58, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

Marching Chiefs History

I'm currently working on a rewrite of the history section for the Marching Chiefs page and it can be found here. Feel free to make comments on the talk page for it. Also, it is quite difficult to find sourcing for some of the stuff in there since it was originally directly from the Chiefs website. Any help with sourcing would be awesome. Ayzmo (talk) 16:24, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

Updated USNews rankings to reflect 2012 results

Mister Tog (talk) 02:58, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

Campus map

• http://www.facilities.fsu.edu/Planning_Space_Management/Documents/Maps/MC_CampusMap.pdf
  • http://www.webcitation.org/65dLm1bw6

WhisperToMe (talk) 04:11, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 2 August 2012

Please change "USNWR Public Affairs" ranking (located under "FSU Rankings") from #27 to #16: http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-public-affairs-schools/florida-state-university-134097 216.173.185.34 (talk) 15:47, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

Done Thank you! Mdann52 (talk) 16:17, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 10 August 2012

I would like to request that the "Libraries" section (2.11) of the FSU webpage be edited. I am the Marketing/Communications person for the Libraries and Dean of the Libraries Julia Zimmerman has asked me to look into this. She pointed out that the information included about the libraries is incomplete and not up to date. For example the existing entry only lists Strozier, Dirac, and the Music and Law Libraries. Actually, The Florida State University Libraries (www.lib.fsu.edu) include 8 libraries on campus:

• Strozier Library
• Dirac Science Library
• FAMU/FSU Engineering Library
• Claude Pepper Library
• College of Music Allen Music Library
• School of Library & Information Studies Goldstein Library
• College of Law Research Center
• College of Medicine Maguire Medical Library

The libraries also include The Special Collections and Archives Division

I have a draft of what we would like for the entry to reflect. I would be happy to submit it, but I am unclear as to who maintains this page. Ideally, we would like the entry to be similar to the entry for University of Florida, where there is a brief mention of the libraries on the main University page, which then links to a separate page for the libraries. Please let me know what I need to do to make these changes possible. Thank you, Liz Johnson Elj2906 (talk) 16:51, 10 August 2012 (UTC) Elj2906 (talk) 16:51, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

No single person maintains this page. There are many of us who watch it and keep it in good order. As far as I know I'm the last person to have expanded the library section. I wanted to add more information on the libraries but did not find them be entirely noteworthy enough for their own articles for the most part. I would be happy to make articles or provide enhancements if good links can be provided for sources. Mind you that articles should not read like a brochure and should be as objective as possible.Ayzmo (talk) 21:56, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

(Comment from uninvolved editor) This FSU page seems to contain links to possible sources for all the libraries. In addition Google searches (less youtube.com) contain additional FSU pages plus potential Wikipedia article links to individuals honored by the naming of an FSU entity:

• • • • Strozier Library, Strozier Library excluding youtube
      • Dirac Science Library, Dirac Science Library excluding youtube
      • FAMU/FSU Engineering Library, Engineering Library excluding youtube
      • Claude Pepper Library, Claude Pepper Library excluding youtube
      • College of Music Allen Music Library  Done
      • School of Library & Information Studies Goldstein Library, Goldstein Library excluding youtube
      • College of Law Research Center  Done
      • College of Medicine Maguire Medical Library  Done

The libraries also include The Special Collections and Archives Division, Special Collections and Archives excluding youtube

Hope this is helpful as a resource.
SBaker43 (talk) 23:58, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

Not done: please make your request in a "change X to Y" format. Editors responding to edit requests expect your requested changes to be written in a form that is ready to insert into the article as-is. Note also that because you are involved with the subject in a conflict of interest situation, you may wish to use the {{request edit}} template to make your requests, instead of the {{edit semi-protected}} template. I would like to also point out that changes should be sourced using citation templates. Typically only reliable sources are acceptable, although in this case, I believe a website listing would be sufficient per WP:ABOUTSELF. BigNate37_(T) 17:35, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

I can't say I entirely agree with your statement about what I'd expect when asked to edit something. And to say the edit request was not done is untrue since I added a great deal of information based on this request the other day and plan to add more when I have some more free time. Ayzmo (talk) 00:45, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

I will concede that my use of {{ESp|xy}} was not the best way to respond. In my defence, the request criteria at Wikipedia:Edit requests are clear. It's good that you're willing to action more vague requests, but that does not put me at fault for expecting edit requests to be made properly. This has been marked as needing an editor's attention for ten days now. In general if a request is open that long and hasn't been closed simply because it's too complicated or vague, it's better to set answered=yes and explain why that was done without implementing the full request. It's often the case that the requester waits longer than is necessary because would-be respondents skip past difficult requests rather than coming right out and saying that they don't conform to expectations. To reiterate though, I was wrong to use the canned {{ESp|xy}} text in this situation. BigNate37_(T) 02:03, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

Sorry if I'm causing problems, but Wikipedia's editing process is not intuitive, and it takes a bit of trial and error to figure things out. I will resubmit my request as a change X to Y request. However, my issue is I'm not sure how that will affect the rest of the page. For example, if I add additional citations, won't that change all the numbers of the footnotes that follow? As I said, I am new to this process, but some changes to the Libraries entry do need to be made, as some of the info is incorrect/incomplete or out of date. Thank you for your patience. Elj2906 (talk) 14:25, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

If new sources are added the others renumber automatically. That's not a problem. Just tell us what you'd like changed and ref it.Ayzmo (talk) 03:36, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Florida State University

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Florida State University's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "History":

• From Sigma Lambda Beta: "Texas A&M University-Kingsville". Sigma Lambda Beta. Retrieved 22 March 2012.
• From Delta Sigma Theta: Ross, Jr., Lawrence C. "The Divine Nine: The History of African-American and Sororities in America" (Document). Kensington Books. {{cite document}}: Cite has empty unknown parameters: |isbn=, |volume=, |url=, and |edition= (help)
• From East Carolina University: "History". The College of Nursing at East Carolina University. Retrieved 15 September 2011.
• From History of Florida State University: Office of University Communications (September 23, 2009). "About Florida State: History". www.fsu.edu. Retrieved July 12, 2010.
• From Florida Atlantic University: "Explore FAU History". Florida Atlantic University. Retrieved 2007-09-20.
• From Clemson University: "The History of Clemson University". Retrieved June 20, 2007.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 04:37, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 7 February 2013

Notable Alumni: Jeff Hansen, Senior Vice President, Southeast Operations, Xerox Corporation (1978, BS Marketing).

13.13.137.1 (talk) 21:49, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

Not done: No indication that this individual meets Wikipedia's notability standards. Rivertorch (talk) 19:48, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

Building lists

The list of buildings is https://www.facilities.fsu.edu/Planning_Space_Management/Documents/Lists/Building_Lists.xls - http://www.webcitation.org/6GKk63r3w WhisperToMe (talk) 07:05, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

Florida Board of Governors re:Flagship

Looking at the three citations provided as support for the claim that Florida State is the state's Flagship University...two of them do not mention Florida State University at all, and the third is a 2006 US News tuition article in which it includes Florida State as one of "75 flagship public universities". A general internet search of local newspapers from different areas in Florida also reveals the erratic titling of numerous Florida universities as "flagship universities" or "one of the state's flagship universities", including USF, FSU, UNF, UCF, FAU, and FIU. However, the authoritative source on the matter (the State University System of Florida's Board of Governors) names only the University of Florida as the state's Flagship University, even as recently as 2013 (http://www.flbog.edu/about/_doc/budget/tuition/2012-13-College-Board-Tuition-and-Fees-By-State.pdf). The Associated Press states the same (http://www.flbog.edu/pressroom/newsclips_detail.php?id=23996), and other colleges in the state confirm UF as the flagship university of the state (http://www.flbog.edu/about/_doc/fbd/FAMU-alumni-pappas-response.pdf). This is consistent with the understanding that the term "flagship" is, by definition, superlative. There cannot be two universities which are both that state's Flagship University, as evidenced by the Higher Education Coordinating Board's Comparative Study for the State of Washington's WSAC (http://www.wsac.wa.gov/sites/default/files/TuitionandFees2009-10Report-Final.pdf), the Joint Center for Political and Economic Studies Health Policy Institute, the Dellums Commission (http://www.jointcenter.org/hpi/files/manual/Black%20Male%20Students%20at%20Public%20Flagship.pdf), College Board's most recent Annual Survey of Colleges (http://trends.collegeboard.org/college-pricing/figures-tables/state-tuition-and-fees-flagship-universities-2012-13-and-5-year-percentage-change-tuition). Are there any reliable cites from authoritative sources (e.g. not the Tampa Tribune calling USF a flagship university) that shows that Florida State holds the title of Florida's flagship university? If not, with all indications and evidence (including the state's Board of Governors) pointing to the University of Florida alone holding the title, I believe the flagship claims for FSU should be removed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by PalmaCeiaJD (talk • contribs) 03:06, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

Response: The following evidence which supports FSU as a co-flagship university in Florida. Note that nowhere is a claim that FSU is the only flagship university in Florida as you suggest. The citations you deleted contained a definition as to what constitutes a "flagship" university, a remarkably loaded and contentious term that is the subject of repeated attention in the Florida Legislature. This definition is attributed to Robert M. Berdahl, PhD, who was the President of the Association of American Universities as well as the Chancellor of the University of California, Berkeley. I offer that adopting Dr. Berdahl's definition begins to impart consistency and reliability to the term "flagship", at least as it is used in reference to the classification of universities.

1. The Future of Flagship Universities (Robert M. Berdahl, 10/5/1998) http://cio.chance.berkeley.edu/chancellor/sp/flagship.htm In this speech Dr. Berdahl acknowledges the inflammatory nature of the use of the "flagship" term but spells out what constitutes state flagship universities. The parallels of origin here, as laid out by Berdahl, line up nicely with the histories of FSU and UF, even though he did not mention these schools.

2. Higher education tackles search for quality (St Pete Times, 9/17/1979) In this article both FSU and UF are named as flagship universities in Florida. http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=eFBSAAAAIBAJ&sjid=cnwDAAAAIBAJ&dq=Higher%20education%20tackles%20search%20for%20quality&pg=5927%2C2102735

3. Florida Governor Jeb Bush refers to FSU and UF as "flagship" universities here: http://www.puaf.umd.edu/puaf650-Fullinwider/handouts-AA-Florida%20Plan.htm In this article we find that then Gov. Bush explicitly calls FSU and UF "flagship universities":

Among the notable impacts of One Florida: Of the additional 3,202 first-time-in-college students entering the university system whose race and ethnicity could be determined, minority student enrollment accounted for almost 40%, or 1,234, of that increase. Each of the 10 universities increased the percentage of its entering class who are African-American. Furthermore, the rate of growth for minority students at Florida State University and the University of Florida far outstripped overall university system growth and the growth of white students. For example, while system-wide enrollment grew by approximately 11%, the number of African-Americans at Florida State University grew by 21% and the number of African-Americans at the University of Florida grew by 33%. In addition, the number of Hispanics at Florida State grew by 24%, while the number of Hispanics at the University of Florida increased by 19%.

In addition, the "cascading" effect, or the reduction of minority students in our flagship universities that many critics of the One Florida plan predicted would happen, did not occur. In fact, minority enrollment actually flowed upwards toward the flagship universities. Combined, Florida State University and the University of Florida enrolled 577 more African-American and Hispanic first-time-in-college students than were enrolled last year. Governor Bush and Chancellor Herbert were joined by presidents and provosts of universities that showed some of the greatest minority gains, including University of Central Florida President John Hitt, and Provosts Larry Abele of Florida State University, David Colburn of the University of Florida, and Richard Osborne of Florida Atlantic University.

4. USF cost may grow (St. Pete Times, 4/24/2007) http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=gO1RAAAAIBAJ&sjid=fHQDAAAAIBAJ&dq=florida%20flagship%20university&pg=5602%2C4091416 In this article both FSU and UF are acknowledged to be flagship universities.

5. USA TODAY's 2006 College Tuition & Fees Survey (USAToday, 9/5/2006) http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/education/2006-08-30-tuition-survey_x.htm In this survey both FSU and UF are acknowledged to be "flagship" universities.

We should recognize that this matter of flagship universities in Florida is not decided by the Florida Board of Governors. Indeed, the most recent highly publicized fight over this issue, where UF supporters in the Florida Legislature tried to have the title written into state law were soundly turned back:

6. UF "flagship" status doesn't last long as critics attack Senate bill (The Florida Times-Union, 4/12/2010) http://jacksonville.com/news/politics/2010-04-12/story/uf-flagship%E2%80%99-status-doesn%E2%80%99t-last-long-critics-attack-senate-bill

7. "Flagship" cut from bill that would rank universities (The Gainesville Sun, 4/7/2010) http://www.gainesville.com/article/20100407/ARTICLES/4071008 In this article, published by the cheerleader newspaper for the Univ of FL, FSU President Barron resists the bill, widely believed in Florida to name UF the state flagship university. The result was the bill was reworked and the term dropped.

Note that UF has sought the "flagship" title in law before, but was equally unsuccessful. If we look at the history of these two schools we note in the time before magazine rankings of colleges rankings consisted of markers such as whether or not a school had a chapter of Phi Beta Kappa. We should note that FSU was awarded the first chapter in Florida (1935), UF the second(1938). Other markers such as history and influence clearly establish FSU as perhaps the only state flagship university, as it was the first university established in Florida and had the first state college of medicine. But this was prior to 1905, the date the Buckman Act segregated the schools by sex.

The balance cited in the text reverted was respectful of the contentious nature of this issue and did not eliminate or impede UF's claims of co-equal status, especially under the definition of Dr. Berdahl, whose academic speciality was history - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_M._Berdahl

Due to the fact this is a Florida issue and not established in materials from other states I am reverting to the original article format, which had remained unchanged for some years. Sirberus (talk) 15:03, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

I've removed the challenged material again. PalmaCeiaJD is quite right that the cited materials don't verify what they're claimed to verify. The term "flagship" is subjective and obviously controversial, at least in Florida, and it has no official status or definition in the state. As such it's best to keep it out to avoid WP:BOOSTERISM.--Cúchullain ^t/c 15:39, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Will you be removing similar references from the UFla article and any other references in Florida university as well, or just here? Sirberus (talk) 16:27, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

As it happens, I did remove the "flagship" references from the University of Florida article, not that it matters particularly to the state of this article. I'm not aware of similar references in other articles on Florida universities.--Cúchullain ^t/c 16:52, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Thank you, Cuchullain.  :-) I can work with the references we have to establish the issue and balance. Sirberus (talk) 16:56, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

I think that all it needs to say is that it FSU, along with UF and USF, is one of the state's "research flagships" as declared by the state legislature. Beyond that, the term "flagship" doesn't mean anything in the state, and it smacks of boosterism.--Cúchullain ^t/c 17:01, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

If even that. I really think the "flagship" matter, and the establishment date issue minimize our university system. Honestly, if ever there were two schools cut from the same cloth it's these two. Sirberus (talk) 19:01, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Response 2:

I contacted the Florida Board of Governors (FBoG) regarding this flagship issue and your claim this reference shows UF being declared the Florida Flagship University by the FBoG is completely false. Please see this extensive discussion: http://www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Flagship This reference (http://www.flbog.edu/about/_doc/budget/tuition/2012-13-College-Board-Tuition-and-Fees-By-State.pdf) does not mean anything more than it describes, which is a College Board (a private organization which administers college entrance examinations) tuition summary that happened to be used by the FBoG in two PowerPoint slides for discussion about tuition. The College Board cannot designate a flagship university for Florida. The flagship university issue in Florida is a subject of constant attention by the Florida Legislature and the FBoG and the various university administrations (specifically FSU and UF). Florida has NO official or unofficial flagship university. This is a very contentious current issue in Florida state politics since it has to do with university funding and control. Sirberus (talk) 16:33, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

Sorry but the FBOG doesn't control this or any other Wikipedia article. If other reliable sources count UF, FSU, or any other institution as a flagship then that deserves consideration. The FBOG's position should be noted in the proper place and in the proper manner but we have not - and likely will not - settle on a definition of this term that only relies on state legislation and executive action. Once again, the term is a broad one that has entered the public lexicon and our description of the term must reflect that fact. ElKevbo (talk) 17:10, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

ElKevbo, the Florida Legislature and/or Florida Board of Governors have the sole authority to declare an official flagship university for Florida. While Wikipedia, as a private website, may have this or that as an example of a so-called "flagship" university in the view of the various (mostly anonymous) Wikipedia editors, it most certainly is NOT official, nor even officially representative of public policy in Florida. This distinction is important as at least one editor on Wikipedia has represented a reference in this area as official State policy of Florida, which proved completely untrue. Sirberus (talk) 09:17, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

More to the point, some sources or quotes describing FSU in passing as a "flagship" doesn't justify including it here. Some state university systems have actual flagship schools or campuses; in the context of Florida, the term is just puffery.--Cúchullain ^t/c 12:27, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

The best solution is to clarify it. Say that third party sources describe the school as such, when there is no official classification in the state system. WhisperToMe (talk) 07:13, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

So now FSU and UF are Florida's "preeimenent" universities by law (the best way, imho to declare such). There may be others but not now and not in the forseeable future. Can we call these schools "flagship" universities in good conscience? Sirberus (talk) 11:57, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

No, all we can say is what the sources say: that the schools pass the state's criteria for "preeminence" and receive additional funding.--Cúchullain ^t/c 12:16, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 30 August 2013

Hello, it has come to our attention here at Goldstein Library that we are not listed under the libraries section of the Wikipedia page.We would like to be added under the Music Library with a short description: The Harold Goldstein Library has a collection of materials of library and information studies, information technology, and juvenile and young adult literature. As one of 6 libraries on campus we are open to the entire FSU community. Please hotlink our website to the verbiage "Goldstein Library" at the beginning of the description. The website link is: http://goldstein.cci.fsu.edu/ We would also like to add an image to our description. Please advise us as to how to send you an image. We can be reached at library@cci.fsu.edu Thank you, Pam Doffek Director of the Goldstein Library 128.186.73.58 (talk) 15:03, 30 August 2013 (UTC)

Comment: Wikipedia doesn't place external links inline in articles. Please see Help:Files for technical advice about uploading images and Wikipedia:Image use policy for important information about restrictions on image use. Note that FSU's Maguire Medical Library also should be added (apparently there are seven libraries, not six). If no one else gets to it first, I'll try to add a short paragraph on each later this week. Rivertorch (talk) 06:13, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

Be glad to help. Sirberus (talk) 03:13, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

I have added some detail and a reference concerning the Goldstein Library. Sirberus (talk) 17:11, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

Updated total headcount 2014 and updated school colors

The total headcount needs to be updated to reflect fall 2014. http://www.ir.fsu.edu/studentinfo.cfm?ID=time or http://www.ir.fsu.edu/student/headcount.htm

The school colors also need to be updated. They have now included black and white to better represent the Seminole tribe. They exact colors are on these two websites: http://unicomm.fsu.edu/brand/applying/colors/ and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_State_Seminoles — Preceding unsigned comment added by SeminoleNation (talk • contribs) 18:11, 24 December 2014 (UTC)

Greatest needs and areas of improvements of the Florida State University page.

Needs list

• The Florida State University needs updated pictures of campus as they are mostly from 2008. Pictures showing the Leach Recreation Center and the Oglesby union are a top priority because the current pictures look outdated.
• The individual pages of Florida State's colleges/schools are mostly stubs and need much more information and descriptions of the colleges such as programs and accolades.
• There should be a new page describing the Florida State University Libraries system like the UF page has.
• I also believe that there should be separate pages for alumni and faculty of the university.
• There should also be a FSU buildings page like other universities have.

I can't do this all myself. Any help making this article greater would be extremely appreciated. Thank you--SeminoleNation (talk) 05:03, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

Florida State was not founded in 1851

I know that's the university's official position, but that doesn't make it true or mean that Wp should say so. FSU was born in 1947. Before that there were predecessors. To say that FSU existed because there was a West Florida Seminary makes FSU look bad instead of good. deisenbe (talk) 17:56, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

FSU has had name and structural changes just like every other university in the nation has had throughout history. That doesn't mean that the institution wasn't founded in 1851 just because it had another official name or because they admitted only women for a while.--SeminoleNation (talk) 20:29, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

@Deisenbe: SeminoleNation is right; many colleges/universities change names from their establishment dates. So we list the date the college was first established. For example, Columbia University was founded in 1754 as King College. It changed its name in 1784 to Columbia College and again in 1896 to its current name, Columbia University. If you were to see Emporia State University: it was established as the Kansas State Normal in 1863, changed its name to Kansas State Teachers College in 1923, then again to Emporia Kansas State College in 1974, and in 1977 to its current name, Emporia State University. So if we were to say that Emporia State was established in 1977, then it is like the university didn't exist before 1977 because it had a different name. Same thing goes for Florida State and Columbia University, or any other college/university for that matter. Corkythehornetfan

@Deisenbe:The article does cover this question in detail; perhaps more detail than most other schools due to the rivalry with the University of Florida, which has remarkable origin date curiosities itself. Of special note in the FSU case is a lawsuit was filed against state officials in 1911 due to the effect of the 1905 Buckman Act on the West Florida Seminary.

The Florida Supreme Court decided the matter; in part by saying:

The act became a law on June 5, 1905, at the end of the school year, and provision was made whereby the two boards were to act promptly in selecting the locations for the two new institutions, and one of them, designated as the Florida Female College, but now officially called the Florida State College for Women, was promptly located at Tallahassee, at the site formerly occupied by the Florida State College, so that there has been no break in the actual workings of the school as an institution for higher education, opening its regular session in the succeeding autumn. Equity looks at the substance rather than the strict letter, and we fail to find such hiatus or break in the continuity of the institution as to cause us to declare a *842 forfeiture, and we answer the first question propounded by us in the negative.

And this section, more blunt:

2 3 There have been many changes the institution in the quarter century Judge Westcott made his will. We add parenthetically that all which have survived this rapidly age have of necessity made many in order to survive. Mere change of name, unless some peculiar affection for the is indicated by the donor means nothing while location is important. Institutions controlled by the state are of necessity subject to change in state policy, and of those endowing such institutions must...

In sum, the Supreme Court of Florida saw no actionable difference between the schools located at the site of the West Florida Seminary as far as the Westcott will was concerned and probably set a precedent for FSU's origin estimation to 1851. Note the Florida State College also used 1851 as date of origin - see the FSC university seal placed near the front of Westcott Building on campus, in the historical monument. The Argo of the FSC references in this article corroborate the use of 1851 as origin date as well.

The university origin kerfuffle in the case of Florida State University is thus an ignorable event. Especially since location remained the same and even the buildings remained the same. Now, having read this - how can the University of Florida claim 1853 when that institution supposedly has root of origin location in Ocala (1853), Gainesville (1866), Lake City (1884) (plus other minor locations) then to the current Gainesville campus in 1906? UF clearly does not have the location requirement as does Florida State University.

Please also see the case: Lewis et al vs Gaillard et al at: https://books.google.com/books?id=WK67SOJBsJEC&lpg=PA281&ots=ym-ugXokLh&dq=lewis%20et%20al%20vs%20gaillard%201911&pg=PA281#v=onepage&q=lewis%20et%20al%20vs%20gaillard%201911&f=false Hope this helps; or at least makes you curious. Sirberus (talk) 02:38, 29 July 2015 (UTC)

Florida State University's Garnet Color

What's the Hex Triplet of Florida State University's Garnet color?--BigMac1212 (talk) 04:45, 4 November 2015 (UTC)

Well if you look in the Florida State University, you'd see that it is #CEB888 which produces  . That source can be found here. Corkythehornetfan 20:13, 4 November 2015 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to one external link on Florida State University. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/20070227004520/http://www.fsu.edu:80/~fstime/FS-Times/Volume2/apr97web/4apr97.html to http://www.fsu.edu/~fstime/FS-Times/Volume2/apr97web/4apr97.html

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External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to one external link on Florida State University. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/20070927220130/http://www.tallahassee.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070620/BREAKINGNEWS/706200317/-1/BREAKINGNEWS to http://www.tallahassee.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070620/BREAKINGNEWS/706200317/-1/BREAKINGNEWS

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External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 4 external links on Florida State University. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

• Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20081209080752/http://rmfo-blogs.com:80/hoss/2005/11/16/calvin-patterson/ to http://rmfo-blogs.com/hoss/2005/11/16/calvin-patterson/
• Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20100220081550/http://media.www.fsunews.com:80/media/storage/paper920/news/2007/11/26/News/Oshea.Earns.Rhodes.Scholarship-3114096.shtml to http://media.www.fsunews.com/media/storage/paper920/news/2007/11/26/News/Oshea.Earns.Rhodes.Scholarship-3114096.shtml
• Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20150502094713/http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-fine-arts-schools/florida-state-university to http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-fine-arts-schools/florida-state-university
• Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20100228144756/http://www.bad.fsu.edu:80/irpage/student/studentinfo.cfm?ID=t_faq to http://www.bad.fsu.edu/irpage/student/studentinfo.cfm?ID=t_faq#19

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Semi-protected edit request on 9 June 2016

Request to add Florida State Heisman Winners to Football section of the page

http://www.nationalchamps.net/NCAA/heisman/heisman_trophy_winners.htm

Garyjohncrilly (talk) 16:44, 9 June 2016 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format.  ^B E _C K ^Y _S A ^{Y L} E _S  22:43, 13 June 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

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I have just modified one external link on Florida State University. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130517163624/http://www.ringling.org:80/About2.aspx?id=930 to http://www.ringling.org/About2.aspx?id=930

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Semi-protected edit request on 11 November 2016

I would like to make a separate page for the Askew Student Life Center for a class project. I will link it to the Florida State page and cite all my sources. I want to no redirect to the Florida State page when being searched initially.

Zacamora (talk) 21:02, 11 November 2016 (UTC)

Not done: Doing that does not require editing this article. It is unlikely that the Askew Student Life Center satisfies Wikipedia's notablity requirements. — JJMC89 (T·C) 07:26, 12 November 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 November 2016

I would like the Askew Student Life Center to not be redirected to the Florida State page. I am trying to do a class project on the ASLC for my ENC4404 class and would like the ability to make an in-depth wikipedia page that links to the ASLC website and FSU wikipedia page.

Zacamora (talk) 00:42, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

There was a similar request already answered above. If you're referring to Askew student life center, take it to WP:RfD. — Andy W. (talk) 01:21, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

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I have just modified 4 external links on Florida State University. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20160303172754/http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/top-public to http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/top-public
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20121207000103/http://www.usnews.com/education/blogs/college-rankings-blog/2012/12/06/which-highly-ranked-universities-operate-most-efficiently to http://www.usnews.com/education/blogs/college-rankings-blog/2012/12/06/which-highly-ranked-universities-operate-most-efficiently
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120723083757/http://claudepeppercenter.fsu.edu/content/library-and-museum to http://claudepeppercenter.fsu.edu/content/library-and-museum
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070703111234/http://seminoles.cstv.com:80/sports/m-footbl/mtt/bowden_bobby01.html to http://seminoles.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/bowden_bobby01.html

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