Talk:Flight of the Wild Geese

San Patricios

I removed this paragraph about the San Patricios from the section "the end of the Wild Geese" and bring it here for discussion:

In the Mexican-American War, some Irish emigrees serving in the United States Army deserted to the Mexican side to form a large part of the Saint Patrick's Battalion, or Batallón de San Patricio. These soldiers' action is sometimes viewed in light of the Wild Geese tradition of Irishmen serving in foreign armies.

There is really no connection between the Wild Geese and the Irish immigrants who fought for the Mexicans in the Saint Patrick Battallion. They are separated not only by a significant time gap, but also by social circumstance. Specifically, they did not leave Ireland in order to serve with the Mexican army, this happened more or less by chance. This was not the case with the Wild Geese. ---RepublicanJacobite_{The'FortyFive'} 17:17, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Some valid points, while we are on the subject the discussion of the UK regiments is fairly irrelevant & could do with some work by someone knowledgeable on the subject. I'll go ahead & add the Saint Patrick's Battalion to the "See also" section though. ʄ!•¿talk? 20:58, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. Adding it to the "See also" section would seem to make sense. I agree with you about the UK regiments, as well, though I am not the one to improve that section. ---RepublicanJacobite_{The'FortyFive'} 23:45, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia clearly says that the London Irish Rifles regiment no longer exists ( its now just a company in a TA regiment ). I will remove it. 86.32.232.31 (talk) 11:20, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

Confusion of Wild Geese and Irish Brigade

The Brigade left for France as 5 regiments, pre-formed. The WG left separately and many joined French regiments. It is wrong to describe the Brigade as a part of the Wild Geese, though there were overlaps in terms of loyalty, religion and the circumstances of their departures.86.42.202.122 (talk) 12:30, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

Your source for this statement? In the unreliable source web page The Society of the Irish Brigade - The Wild Geese (20 November 2000) it says that:

For the next hundred years [from 1692] the French Army would include an Irish Brigade which began with Sarsfield's soldiers, and the men of Justine MacCarthy (Lord Mountcashel) who preceded them, was fed by a continual stream of young men from Ireland. ... The majority of the recruits came from the counties of Clare, Limerick, Cork, Kerry and Galway. French ships which arrived on the west coast smuggling in brandy and wine would depart with recruits for the Irish Brigade. In the paper work of the ships, the recruits would be listed as "Wild Geese," thus the origin of the name.

but that does not mean that today the term is only applied to just those recruits who made up the cargo for the return leg of French brandy smugglers. For example:

• Mark McLaughlin (1980). The Wild Geese: The Irish Brigades of France and Spain (illustrated ed.). Osprey Publishing. ISBN 9780850453584.

states on page 3 "These grand gentlemen however are only a footnote in the larger volume written by the half-million who served in the Irish brigades of France and Spain from 1585 to 1818: the Wild Geese"

More commonly though the Wild Geese are associated with the Sarsfield as:

• Edward Alfred D'Alton (1782). History of Ireland: from the earliest times to the present day. Vol. 4. The Gresham Publishing Company.

states on page 492 "Those who left Limerick with Sarsfield (the Wild Geese, as they came to be called) were destined for the invasion of England..."

So I think that the statement lead is accurate but the paragraph that starts "The main difference between the Irish Brigade and the Wild Geese..." needs its words adjusting to match the arguments put forward in the lead. It would help if it were made clear as is done by Mark McLaughlin on pages 5-7:

James II ... fled to France. Louis XIV, currently at war with William of Orange, agreed to send regulars and supplies to Ireland in return for 5,000 Irish. James agreed and went to raise an army in Ireland ... The men he sent to France were ... raw recruits ... While the French organized, trained and armed these men, who later became the Irish Brigade, James waged war in Ireland. [Sarsfield] defended the town of Limerick for nearly two years ... then [he] and his army elected to evacuate Ireland under French protection ... James formed a separate exile army ... The 12,326 men of this army were kept separate from the Irish Brigade. ... Both Brigade and the Jacobite army were supposed to invade Ireland in 1692, but ... [After this] Louis forced James to release his men for service in the various French armies, but allowed the bulk of them to serve ... against the Anglo-Dutch army in Flanders. ... By the end of the war in 1698 more than one-third of the Irish in both the Jacobite army and the Brigade were dead or crippled. The Irish Brigade was retained, but the Jacobite army was disbanded. most ... became beggars or highwaymen. A few ventured to Spain, or joined up with the Brigade; others migrated to Austria to join the 'Catholic Corps' ... [which] was wiped out fighting the Turks...

-- PBS (talk) 22:31, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

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