Talk:Flat feet

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Mention of military prejudice

Perhaps there should be a mention of historical military and police prejudice against flat-footedness in the article. Its a bit confusing just to list studies contradicting the claim without detailing the claim first. Excellent article otherwise :) Theicychameleon (talk) 10:31, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

Good

Good general discussion of the condition I suffer from! Unlike some, I accept the negative perception of flat feet - after all the arch is a classic architectural representation of strength. Having to wear orthotics as a teenager did not help my esteem, especially as bunions developed regardless. In fact, bunions are often a side-eddect of flat-footedness linked to the fact that the flat foot does not sit correctli in most shoes. Good to hear nevertheless of flat-footed olympian athletes.

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I would flag for cleanup, but I will leave this to someone more experienced. Estr4ng3d 16:48, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

Request for additional information

If anyone knows of a source for this, I think it would be helpful to add a section describing the causes of a collapse of the foot's arch, and to make the discussion of causes less vague and more detailed.

Mushroom Pi 20:59, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Soldiers

Perhaps there should be a mention of historical military and police prejudice against flat-footedness in the article. Its a bit confusing just to

I find it interesting that the flexible flatfooted soldiers had a lower incidence of injury, particularly because I came to this page to find out why flat feet kept people out of the military. My grandfather had flat feet and was rejected on this basis alone from joining the army during WWII, a fact that caused him some emotional stress since his brother had recently been killed in Europe. Interestingly, my wife thought that flat footed people being rejected for service had been a joke of some kind and that it never really happened. PacificBoy 17:03, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

I really like the Far Side cartoon with the guy at the bar telling others not to stare at his flat feet, because they kept him out of the Army. (The flat feet are protuding from his forehead.) Isaac Crumm 01:14, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

I would like to see something more on this if at all possible. This is probably something that people visiting that particular page would be likely interested in as it is constantly mentioned in pop culture. Why exactly does the military deny people based on this attribute, etc? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Tvnite3431 (talk • contribs) 01:46 UTC, 13 June 2007.

I too came here wondering why flat feet would keep anyone out of the army. Apparently it was bad science. I'd be interested to hear how the notion developed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.152.106.84 (talk) 23:50, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

Where is the intro?

This article needs a brief introductory paragraph that explains what flat feet actually is. I don't know enough to write it myself, but it should probably start with something like "Flat feet is a medical condition whereby..." --HappyDog 12:37, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

D'oh - I should have checked the history.  :-) Cheers for putting it back in. --HappyDog 11:38, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Reply to "Soldiers"

I am in the US Marines, and that "myth" about not being able to join the military because of flat feet, may have had truth to it years ago, but it doesnt anymore. I have flat feet myself, and when i went to MEPS to have my physical exam, they asked me if i had flat feet, and all they do is record it, but they CANNOT keep you from being in the military because of it, at least not anymore.

Ultimagamer5409 (talk) 21:56, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

It IS true that they used to, Jimmy Carter had them and had to roll his feet over a Coke bottle for a half hour every day to develop sufficient arches to be admitted to Annapolis. Danthemankhan 03:40, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

I would think rolling your feet over Coke bottles wouldn't make any difference. It wouldn't reshape the bone in a full-grown adult, and at most the pressure could cause some of the tissue to move toward the heel and ball of the foot (similar to the way a corset reduces waist size). Even then, this wouldn't have any effect on the angle the feet contact the ground and thus the stress on the knees/back. Ohgod chrishansen (talk) 21:08, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Anecdotally, I, myself, having flat feet (to which I'll gladly provide an affidavit) I'd heard the rumor about Jimmy Carter from my Navy recruiter (who was concerned I'd fail). The verbal rumor I'd been given, then, in 1992, was broomsticks, not coke bottles, and it was only in the days before the test. The recruiter confirmed this had worked in the past. I "rolled" some wooden dowels a few minutes-a-day in the days prior to the test. During the Duckwaslk test, out of about 30 candidates, I was the last candidate they finally passed (they have the entire group duckwalk in a circle in front of doctors who wave you out of the circle if they feel you've passed). As a licenced massage therapist, my opinion is that while rolling a broomstick/coke bottle) will not change the bone structure of the feet of an adult, it could be used to condition the affected area to not be as painful when taking the test, so those who "roll" will have a better chance at passing the test. This very well could be the case for Jimmy Carter, who may or may not have naturally passed the test, but may have increased his chances by rolling — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.111.115.49 (talk) 00:39, 6 June 2020 (UTC)

Further reply to "Soldiers"

Historically, flat feet have been of interest to defence forces. In a paper titled “The Longstanding Problem of Flat Feet”, Bennett and Stock described the problem that flat feet have posed for recruitment into the British army over 300 years, and the methods by which the British army responded to this problem. Long periods of standing still in an unnatural position increased the pressure on the foot arches, and in 1690, this was recognised with the order “For the exercise of the musket – the musket being shoulder’d, the feet are to be at one step distance, the heels in a straight line, the toes a little turn’d outwards.”

Bennett and Stock noted that after the First World War, careful audits of medical discharges were undertaken for the first time. In 1922-23, each recruit enlisted and subsequently discharged after a period of training cost the State 50 pounds, and discharges for flat feet accounted for 8.5% of all medical discharges during training. At that time, it was considered impossible to frame effective regulations to prevent enlistment of men likely to develop flat feet.

That flat feet are considered an important factor historically can be seen in the following regulations promulgated during the American Civil War (Rienzi, 1963): “Also, the 'diseases and infirmities' which will provide an exemption from the draft are enumerated. These include the following: insanity, epilepsy, paralysis, confirmed consumption, decided feebleness of constitution, constitutional syphilis, total loss of sight or loss of sight of right eye, complete deafness, dumbness, total loss of tongue, stammering if excessive and confirmed, loss of a sufficient number of teeth to prevent tearing the cartridge, incurable deformities of part of either jaw which hinder biting of the cartridge, old and ulcerated internal hemorrhoids, total loss of index finger of right hand, loss of the first and second phalanges of the fingers of right hand, and club or splay feet. Medical conditions which will not effect eligibility include: chronic rheumatism, pain simulating headache, external hemorrhoids, incontinence of urine, and ordinary large, ill-shaped, or flat feet".

In fact, many defence forces deliberately rejected potential recruits with flat feet. For example, in an interview with Tom Brokaw, the famous NBC journalist, he indicated that: “When I graduated from the University of South Dakota, I wanted to go into the Navy. So I applied to the OCS (officer candidate school) program. I was accepted, and I was looking forward to it. I didn't have a job and I needed one, among other things, and that's what I had always wanted to do. But I had flat feet. In the last station of the physical, they said, We can't take you, you've got flat feet" (Naval Institute 2001).

This rejection criterion was however, sometimes relaxed in times of war. Thus “My father, Pvt. William Q. Glass, of Claysburg Pa., tried, without success, on two different occasions to join the army in 1951. He was declared unfit both times, due to having flat feet. In 1952, as losses mounted in the Korean conflict, he received his draft notice” (Glass 2001).

Perhaps the most famous person rejected from the armed forces because of flat feet is Albert Einstein. In 1901, he was called up for military service in the Swiss army, but was rejected because he had flat feet and varicose veins. Instead he joined the Patent Office where he made his first discoveries in theoretical physics (University of St Andrews 2001).

Current regulations regarding flat feet In recent times these restrictions on people with flat feet joining the defence forces have been relaxed, at least in the armed services of developed countries. For example, from the United States Department of Defense Directive, rejection on medical grounds only occurs for “pronounced cases, with decided eversion of the foot and marked bulging of the inner border, due to rotation of the talus, regardless of the presence or absence of symptoms” (Department of Defense 1994).

Bennett JD,Stock DG. The longstanding problem of flat feet. J R Army Med Corps, 1989; 135(3): p. 144-6. Rienzi. This Week in the Civil War April 19,1863. 19/3/2001. http://www.civilweek.com/1863/apr1963.htm Naval Institute US. An Interview with Tom Brokaw: "It Still Takes My Breath Away". 19/3/2001. http://www.usni.org/navalhistory/Articles99/NHbrokaw.htm Glass J. Korean War Anniversary Voices From The Past. 19/3/2001. http://www.tcsaz.com/koreanwar/voices2.html University of St Andrews DMS. Albert Einstein. 19/3/2001. http://www-history.mcs.st-andrews.ac.uk/history/Mathematicians/Einstein.html Department of Defence US, Department of Defence Directive, Number 6130.3. 1994, United States Department of Defence: Washington DC.

Estermanaj (talk) 04:37, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Request for visual comparison

I think the first image of flat feet should have a comparison to non-flat feet to its side. Henasraf (talk) 09:08, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

More reply to "Soldiers"

I have to admit I have flat feet myself and I haven't been rejected from the military in my country for it. Henasraf (talk) 09:10, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Police

What is the reason for the sterotype of policemen with flat feet? 2fort5r (talk) 21:26, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Pains

I constantly get pains on the inner side of my feet right under the ankle whenever I stand/walk/run for long periods of time. A friend told me it's because I'm flat footed, and get more strain on that area. Is this true? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.5.177.164 (talk) 21:17, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Can't answer about your feet; but I can say you need your head examined in you think asking a question on a wikipedia talk page is the right way to solicit scientifuc or medical advice. : ) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 222.230.131.146 (talk) 06:46, 13 May 2012 (UTC)

I can tell you what is wrong your plater facillitis tendon is damaged and you need to see a real chiropodist in the uK someone who is SRCh - State Registered Chiropodist as they are the foot doctor, a podiatrist is just a posh name for a toe nail cutter. I have high arches in both my feet, until recently I managed to buy footwera with an inbuilt arch support, now cheap imports mean shoes etc come in from the Far East and lo and behold have no arch support. Result is that my arches are collapsing and it is agony. I consulted my doctor who advised me to not stand so much!!! I don't these days I spend a lot of time at a desk, so I consulted a Chiropodist SRCh, who took about 5 minutes to examine each foot, told me the problem was that my footwear lacked a proper arch support, prescribed a regime fo exercise including rolling my feet over a cold bottle of coke or similar, painkillers to ease the pain, orthotics to support the arches. Within minutes of putting the orthotics in my shoes the relief was incredible and the coke bottle is used every day - at last something useful for coke! Horrible stuff! Walking is again a pleasure and I cna stand for long periods without pain. But why can't we have shoes etc made as they used to be with an ibuilt arch support? Oh I did 14 years commissioned military service, never had problems with the footwear provided - flying boots, and if you have ever herad a flat footed person march you will understand why the military rejected them. Not politically correct these days to say "NO!" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.244.51.17 (talk) 15:12, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

Mutation?

The picture with text "foot with common arch mutation" makes no sense as no mutation is mentioned in the article. (Or it is a term misunderstood) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.56.246.143 (talk) 02:23, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

Flat feet among black people

A podiatrist once told me that black people more often have flat feet. Are there studies about this (or studies denying the claim) that could be in the article?--89.226.117.72 (talk) 10:43, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

Flat feet are NOT the same as fallen arches!

As titled, flat feet are flat, people with fallen arches walk with turned in feet.Hadashi (talk) 15:34, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

Exactly! Why hasn't this been addressed? And if studies prove that having flat feet causes no problems why are we calling it a deformity? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.79.87.244 (talk) 19:28, 25 December 2015 (UTC)

References

Photos

Why is the flat foot photo side on, but the typical arch photo on an angle? 125.253.96.174 (talk) 23:19, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

General Population

"20-30% of the general population" — what is the general population? World-wide? In the US? 82.100.241.200 (talk) 08:12, 10 May 2020 (UTC)