Talk:Fiona Apple

Regarding the most recent edits

One area which is not clear on this page is the order in which the early singles were released.

Criminal is listed as the third single released, but from the side bar on the Tidal page it looks like the fifth, so I think some of the dates are wrong. Also Shadowboxer and 'Never is a promise' were released together, NIAP was side B. Paraphrased (talk) 16:15, 11 August 2017 (UTC)

re: the change to Fiona's name, was wrongly quoted as Murphy Maggart, please dont add things to the page that are clearly wrong.

• "Flirting with the idea of child pornography" is a very serious charge and debatable. It seems inescapably POV, and I don't believe restoring this text was appropriate.
• Many artists are routinely parodied on Saturday Night Live or MadTV, or by comedians. Unless any given parody is exceptionally noteworthy or famous in its own right it's superfluous; otherwise, we could add parody skit transcripts to articles about almost anyone (entertainers and politicians alike).
• In general, the article should be in an encyclopedic style, and not like a newspaper or magazine article, so there should be less of the extensive interview-like quotes (from Garofalo, Apple or Brion).

I made a few edits and hopefully it strikes the right balance between the last version and the next-to-last version. There was an edit war not so long ago, let's try to play nice everybody :-) -- Curps 01:07, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC)

What is "noteworthy"? Personally,I believe that if anything interesting happens in the life of a wikipedia subject, it should go on the page. Like you, I believe that POV angles should be banished BUT if something happened, something happened. I don't see the harm in reporting on who on MADTV or SNL portrayed her. Some people would come to her wikipedia entry just to find out this information. I'm sick of people treating wikipedia like a traditional encyclopedia - it's not. The concept of the "encyclopedia" was devised in first century AD and is everchanging - wikipedia is revolutionizing the original concept. I belive that being potrayed on a national network like Fox or NBC is totally "noteworthy". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.7.131.1 (talk) 10:54, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

I think the MadTV/SNL portrayals are relevant just because it shows she was notable enough to be parodied at one point. 68.166.67.238 (talk) 10:05, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

New discussion

Joni Mitchell said "If Fiona Apple's songs were famous in the seventies, She would have a bigger success than she is now." ^ I removed the above as it's unsourced and doesnt belong in the Tidal section even if true. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Paraphrased (talk • contribs) 23:22, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

"It is rumored to have left Apple in tears. Though no source can be cited, Apple allegedly vowed to intentionally make herself less pretty to counteract the pressure on young women to be beautiful." Can a RELIABLE SOURCE be cited? If not, this is gossip and should not be spread around on an "encyclopedia."

Concerning the above citation that is needed, I believe I recall some fact like that in either Rolling Stone or Spin magazine around the time of the release of When the Pawn.

"which intentionally simulated 1970's pornographic films" this is also a base-less claim. A shag carpet and a hottub do not make a porno.

"and flirted with the idea of child pornography" On what is this claim based???? -- 66.122.48.143 11:48, 6 Feb 2005 (UTC)

"All along the article, Fiona Apple is referred as 'Apple' which is confusing, if her name is to be shortened I consider that 'Fiona' is a more proper term" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.137.47.189 (talk) 10:40, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
Using the surname seems to be the standard followed by most wikipedia articles e.g. compare with the PJ Harvey page, using a surname is less likely to be confused with the name of any other people mentioned on the same page.

"Apple" is not her surname.

Older discussions

Removed: "It was also words that are rarely used in English, confusing many listeners. "

The wording of that doesn't really make any sense. Altered phrasing to reflect what was actually meant; that intellectual wording made the lyrics of the album difficult for listeners to decipher. EB

Confused; someone said they were removing the "similar artist" because it was not useful, which seems sort of contradictory. Of course it's useful: if someone is not familar with the work of Fiona Apple, but is with the other artists listed, then they have a point of reference for something similar. That's the entire purpose of a similar artist section. But it doesnt seem to have been removed anyhow? -EB-

I removed it because that's just an unqualified opinion without something backing it up. Anything objective is better than a list, even "Fiona Apple has stylistic similarities to female singer-songwriters from the late 1980s and early 1990s, such as Tracy Chapman and Tori Amos" at least notes that they are temporally and sexually similar. A little more detail would be better still, even if it's just that their work is often piano-based (I don't know if any of that is true, as it's not really my scene, but it sounds right). Tuf-Kat

Well, I have to disagree in a huge way. It sees like you're just coming from a POV of someone who is unfamiliar with the common practice of listing similar musical artists for quick-glance clarification. It *IS* an objective list. Their music is similar; no, it doesn't specify a reason, but it's music. It's comparing apples to apples. It would be different if I was saying "Fiona Apple's music is similar to the architecture of X." I'm not. I'm comparing music to music, so the similarity should be obvious: it is MUSICALLY similar. But it's not that important I suppose. -EB-

You're right, it's not that important because people gloss over and mostly ignore lists of similar artists. The list can't be perceived as objective (and perception of veracity is much more important in a wiki than most other formats) because the list doesn't prove that there are any similarities -- how do I know, assuming I'd never heard of Apple or the others on the list, that you aren't some random whacko that also has a theory that Marilyn Manson and James Taylor are similar artists? If it can be proved, it can be proved more effectively and more informatively in a prose format with a simple statement of why. Tuf-Kat

Funny, you didn't seem to feel the need to remove "sounds-like" references on the Tori Amos page, though it's disguised as "see also". *wink*Pacian 03:48, 23 Apr 2004 (UTC)

What kind of music does she do? She's fairly obscure in the UK and I haven't heard a single note of anything by her (I assume she's a bit like Tori Amos and so forth, I've only come here because FreeFiona.com was on your American internet news). Perhaps the article could say something along the lines of 'Apple's debut album combined (genre) with (genre), her most prominent (musical attribute) being (attribute)' and so forth. -Ashley Pomeroy 20:06, 23 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Ashley - it is safe to say that though Fiona Apple is often liked by fans of Tori Amos, the two are extremely dissimilar. Apple's success in the states was short lived but her first album was a huge smash and she became a household name here. She does folksy/instrumental pop and has a fondness for organs and percussion; however, her pianos are rarely forefronted in her music like Amos, who is a piano virtuoso. It's hard to say what kind of music she "does," as that could be dangerously POV, so it's best to call her a pop star. Her song "Criminal" was her biggest hit. Pacian 10:15, 28 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Ethnicity

Does anyone know about Fiona Apple's ethnicity? I came to this page hoping to put an end to my speculation on this topic, to no avail. Aesculapius75 11:01, 1 August 2005 (UTC)

An interesting question. She's certainly not out there telling everyone; it isn't anywhere in google, and I've looked. Here are a couple of family photos: [1] [2] In the first, she's next to her very white dad; standing behind her is her half-brother, and next to him is her full sister, who also has exotic looks. I can't find a photo of her mother anywhere online, though. When you put the cheekbones, the cornrows, and her hanging out with hip-hoppers The Roots, she's certainly pretty comfortable with all of that stuff for a white chick !

Anyway, until we get an official statement, or a convincing photo of her mother, I'm not sure there's anything to put in the article. I can't even find an article wondering about it, that we could cite. --Dhartung | Talk 17:58, 1 August 2005 (UTC)

I found a short bio of her sister Maude Maggart, who is a cabaret singer (her mentors are Andrea Marcovicci and Michael Feinstein). Fiona's always been described as "growing up on the Upper West Side"; Maude's bio, trying to buttress some jazz cred, says "near 125th Street"! Friends, that's Harlem. From Maude's bio and interviews we get the story of their grandmother, who "ran away from home" to join George White's Scandals, and then sang for a jazz band and married the saxophonist. Hmmm. (those are some surprising red links, actually) --Dhartung | Talk 05:26, 2 August 2005 (UTC)

Gollee, I found a photo of grandma, the flapper era dancer. She's clearly white. [3] This doesn't mean that mom Diane McAfee was completely white, though. What we have is one parent completely white, and one grandparent completely white.

And that led me to grandpa "Johnny McAfee", who was with the "Johnny Hamp and his Orchestra" ... an earlier group by Hamp, the Kentucky Serenaders, was a bunch of white southerners crooning in suits ... --Dhartung | Talk 08:06, 2 August 2005 (UTC)

I was at high school (Southside, Rockville Centre, 1955-58) with Diane, Fiona's mom, who was the star of every show. I've seen pics on the net of Fionas mom (Diane McAfee) from the 1960s and she is completely white.
Fiona lives in California and often has a suntan, if you look at early pics when she was based in NYC she couldnt get any more white.

?uestlove

I'm hesitant to include the following text, although I believe it to be essentially correct:

Apple has been reported to have cemented a friendship with Philadelphia-based hip hop artist ?uestlove of The Roots, after years of mutual admiration, and to be seeking collaboration opportunities. Unconfirmed reports from the okayplayer.com forums had Apple stating that the album is "not cancelled" and may be released as a "dual disc", one of which would be Brion's and the other produced by Mike Elizondo, with ?uestlove drumming on the latter. Kehew's work, according to this chat, would be for an album of yet newer material. No formal announcement confirming these claims has been released.

I think it's interesting enough, and has enough disclaiming, but it's a touchy rumor-filled space and I don't want to muddy things. The main problem is that the okayplayer.com thread was expired and unavailable, although outside references to it exist. If there are no objections, though, I'll go ahead and add it. --Dhartung | Talk 06:00, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

The above is mostly obsolete now, except for the bit about ?uestlove. It seems like there was some accuracy regarding the Elizondo production, but we still have that unconfirmed hint that Kehew is helping her with a fourth album. And there's no confirmation of ?uestlove working on the official EM as yet. Incidentally, I'm putting more detail over in the Extraordinary Machine article, rather than here. I trust other editors will follow my lead. --Dhartung | Talk 05:51, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

Anorexic?

I see Apple is listed under Anorexia_nervosa#Notable_anorectics. If this is known to be true, is it worth mentioning here? pfctdayelise 15:06, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

I think she may have been at one time in her life (probably before she started recording) and admitted it in an interview, but I'd need to look it up.--Fallout boy 12:55, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

Yea it is worth. Her Appearance and perception is subject of intrigue and concern. "Without strife, your victory has no meaning. Without strife, you do not advance. Without strife, there is only stagnation.""Without strife, your victory has no meaning. Without strife, you do not advance. Without strife, there is only stagnation." (talk) 14:51, 13 May 2023 (UTC)

She has been quoted as saying "I definitely had an eating disorder. What was really frustrating for me was that everyone thought I was anorexic, and I wasn't. I was really depressed and self-loathing. For me, it wasn't about being thin, it was about getting rid of the bait attached to my body. A lot of it came from the self-loathing that came from being raped at the point of developing my voluptuousness. I just thought that if you had a body and if you had anything on you that would be grabbed, it would be grabbed. So I did purposely get rid of it."

"rumors that she was anorexic (her father says doctors proclaimed her healthy) From http://www.timeout.com/newyork/articles/features/7808/big-apple-circus"

Australian Chart Positions

I'm not sure if it is needed in the article but Tidal peaked at #43 and Criminal peaked at #51 [4] (see Chartifacts) and Extraordinary Machine Peak at #53 same website but see Australian Top 100 Albums. Lillygirl 11:20, 19 July 2006.

South Park

She is mentioned in South Park: "Well you ain't Fiona Apple, and if you ain't Fiona Apple I don't give a rat's ass!"

Dave Navarro

Back in the late 90s Dave Navarro had a rather interesting obsession with Apple. I remember hearing news reports about how he left a message in blood on her dressing room mirror before one of her shows. I dug up the articles about this here:

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1424972/12081997/apple_fiona.jhtml http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1424971/19971210/story.jhtml

This may be worth mentioning in her "Personal" section. Marilyn Mansion also took her on one date (it was to a movie premiere, but I believe she left before the movie start). This is according to his autobiography "The Long Hard Road Out of Hell" (for those interested its in his tour diary section). PAT or JK 22:25, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Ah. We just recently deleted a rumor that it was Trent Reznor who sent the bloody letter. --Dhartung | Talk 23:44, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Apple Corps?

Did Fiona Apple ever have any run-ins with The Beatles' record label like Apple Computer did? --Damian Yerrick (☎) 22:00, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Not that I've ever heard. Maybe she woudl have if she'd called herself just "Apple". (Nor, for that matter, have The Apples in Stereo or other bands with Apple in their names.) --Dhartung | Talk 07:23, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Linking to a discography resource

I contributed by adding a new link to the musician's page. Wikipedia puts enormous weight on relying on Discogs and MusicBrainz as resources but I find that the external link I was adding [5] is as much, if not more, a useful resource to provide the user. I didn't know that this is considered 'spam' - if it is, I apologize but I think the links were reverted quickly without a second glance as to the merit of the resource. By the way, there's an external link currently [6] which quality-wise is far more 'useless' and yet it remains there.Mimecuvalo (talk) 01:50, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Retirement

Is there a valid source confirming Apple's plans to retire and open an animal shelter? This is certainly news to me, I cannot find any articles mentioning this, and last I heard she was even working on a new album. Whataworld06 (talk) 14:20, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

This is mentioned in her iTunes interview, when the Extraordinary album was in limbo, she contemplated working for the Green Chimneys charity in New York, but never actually got around to it. Paraphrased (talk) 19:56, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Abuse

I heard claims from a number of youtube commentors abut her being raped and sexually abused by her father, Maggart. Can anyone substantiate these claims? - To be honest, I can't be bothered myself, but it would be detremental to this page if they were true. Stakingsin (talk) 14:56, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Fiona was raped in NY at the age of 12, but not by her father - he had moved to LA 6 years previously (I'm pretty sure she discussed the whole thing in one of the rolling stone interviews) Paraphrased (talk) 23:39, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

Film contribution

I just noticed that Fiona Apple made some contribution to the film Magnolia, as in the credits of the film it mentions: "additional instruments and odd pieces of musical business by jon brion and fiona apple" Perhaps a worthy addition to the "other contributions" section of the main article. I'll add, but if anyone knows any detail of her "odd pieces of musical business", please contribute! --Kevger (talk) 23:20, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

Text Removed

The text below was removed from the lead as it is unreferenced and does not summarize the article per WP:LEAD. If sources can be found this text can be added to an appropirate section of the article.

• Her music is influenced by everything from early jazz, pop, to alt-rock. It is also characterized by Apple's candid personal lyrics and imaginative productions, often featuring idiosyncratic arrangements with instruments as varied as the French horn and optigan.-- — Keithbob • Talk • 18:42, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

Controversial Text Needs Sources

This text:"After she joked to a friend at the age of 11 that she was going to kill her sister and herself, Apple's parents placed her in therapy." Needs sources. It is potentially libelous and at present has only one source; a 1997 interview with Howard Stern. How is this interview verifiable? Are their other sources that validate it? This text may need to be removed per WP:BLP.-- — Keithbob • Talk • 17:06, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

To protect WP and per WP:BLP I have removed the text and have placed it here on this page (see below) If verifiable sources are found we can add it back into the article.

• After she joked to a friend at the age of 11 that she was going to kill her sister and herself, Apple's parents placed her in therapy.refHoward Stern show interview on 14 April 1997ref-- — Keithbob • Talk • 15:37, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

Feminism

There's the "Feminist musicians" tag in her Categories section but there's nothing in the article backing it up. I never saw she refer to herself as a feminist and neither is her supposed feminism "common knowledge". Definitely not a description that can be kept unmentioned/unsourced. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 187.57.5.39 (talk) 08:38, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

I Agree, if there is no actually source, then it should be removed regardless of how huge her perception is. "Without strife, your victory has no meaning. Without strife, you do not advance. Without strife, there is only stagnation.""Without strife, your victory has no meaning. Without strife, you do not advance. Without strife, there is only stagnation." (talk) 20:22, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

F ING

SO TRUE!

WHO ARE YOU! And ? Mark 2600:1004:A031:1FC:FCBF:5DA3:12D0:D210 (talk) 01:52, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

Irish Heritage?

Fiona is an Irish name and, in addition, a lot of the family names mentioned in Apples early life section are Irish, but there is no direct mention of her ethnic heritage in the section. Does anyone have any sources on her heritage? This is usually included in most Wikipedia articles about individual people. 70.166.85.174 (talk) 20:31, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

Contralto?

"Apple's vocal range is contralto."

Contralto starts out by saying that 'Contralto is meaningful only in reference to classical and operatic singing, as other genres lack a system of vocal categorization comparable to that generally accepted in the classical context.' So why have this statement, which is meaningless according to Contralto, in the article summary? 2.242.164.124 (talk) 21:55, 15 August 2014 (UTC)

early life -- raped, eating disorder?

Just because information is available about an artist, is it really necessary for that information to appear on wikipedia? If you were Fiona Apple, would you want the second paragraph about your life to say you were raped and developed an eating disorder? I think there's a line that this article crosses. I really think that paragraph should be removed. Surely this article, which uses Fiona's stage name, should focus on her professional career. After all, that is what makes her notable enough to appear as a wikipedia article at all. 2604:6000:F802:8C00:A582:1663:C68:71D (talk) 14:33, 24 August 2014 (UTC)

She talked about her rape in a Rolling Stone's interview, giving out the details. Its the only notable thing in her early life to be put in that section. Dream Focus 15:39, 24 August 2014 (UTC)

I think neither of those are good arguments. Just because someone divulges something to the press does not make it notable. And if there is nothing to put in a section, then don't keep that section around. My own view is that it is notable because of the influence the childhood events have had on her later life, and in particular her career, as Apple herself describes in the Rolling stone interview. On the other hand, if Jimmy Wales can control his own Wikipedia entry, then I think Fiona Apple should be obliged if she were to request this information be deleted. 2.242.208.193 (talk) 19:25, 25 August 2014 (UTC)

I think all her info. Should be there. You have made this page bland when it used to be very informative.

I do not Care What the Subject Thinks. It is Public information and should be educated. "Without strife, your victory has no meaning. Without strife, you do not advance. Without strife, there is only stagnation.""Without strife, your victory has no meaning. Without strife, you do not advance. Without strife, there is only stagnation." (talk) 14:50, 13 May 2023 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Fiona Apple

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Fiona Apple's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "allmusic":

• From Sara Bareilles: Lymangrover, Jason (2007). "Sara Barilles". AllMusic. Retrieved November 28, 2009.
• From The Velvet Rope: Erlewine, Stephen Thomas. "The Velvet Rope - Janet Jackson". AllMusic. Retrieved January 17, 2013.
• From Extraordinary Machine: Erlewine, Stephen Thomas. Fiona Apple at AllMusic. Retrieved 19 September 2005.
• From Little Broken Hearts: Erlewine, Stephen Thomas. "Little Broken Hearts – Norah Jones". AllMusic. All Media Network. Retrieved January 23, 2016.
• From The Blessed Unrest: Erlewine, Stephen Thomas (July 16, 2013). "The Blessed Unrest – Sara Bareilles : Songs, Reviews, Credits, Awards". AllMusic. Retrieved July 16, 2013.
• From Porcelain Black: "Alaina Beaton". AllMusic. All Media Network, LLC. Retrieved 17 May 2015.
• From Born to Die: Bush, John. Lana Del Rey – Born to Die > Review at AllMusic. Retrieved January 31, 2012.
• From Sky Ferreira: O'Brien, Jon. "Sky Ferreira | Biography". AllMusic. All Media Network. Retrieved January 12, 2014.
• From Brian Vibberts: "Brian Vibberts | Awards". AllMusic. Retrieved 2015-10-23.
• From Goddess (Banks album): Phares, Heather. "Goddess – Banks". AllMusic. All Media Network. Retrieved September 11, 2014.
• From Love Is Dead (Kerli album): Phares, Heather. "Love Is Dead > Overview". Allmusic. Retrieved May 21, 2010.
• From The Idler Wheel...: Erlewine, Stephen Thomas. "The Idler Wheel Is Wiser Than the Driver of the Screw and Whipping Cords Will Serve You More Than Ropes Will Ever Do – Fiona Apple". Allmusic. Rovi Corporation. Retrieved June 12, 2012.
• From The Haunted Man (album): Phares, Heather. "The Haunted Man – Bat for Lashes". AllMusic. All Media Network. Retrieved 27 November 2012.
• From JMSN: Apar, Corey. "Love Arcade". AllMusic. Retrieved 2012-03-26.
• From Lungs (album): Monger, James Christopher. "Lungs – Florence + the Machine". AllMusic. All Media Network. Retrieved 23 June 2010.
• From Miss Jackson: "Panic! At the Disco – Awards". AllMusic. Rovi Corporation. Retrieved December 21, 2014.
• From Jazz: Explore: Jazz-Funk at the Wayback Machine (archived October 19, 2010)

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 01:16, 23 April 2016 (UTC)

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Alexandra Berg

Anyone able to find a source confirming relationship to Alexandra Berg? Yle7000 (talk) 00:26, 20 June 2018 (UTC)

Open sourced references

Much of the info in this article is cited as coming from a particular podcast interview with Marc Maron.

It is listed in multiple various formats, but all leading to the same point of origination, thereby making a single interview appear as separate numerical citations.

For the sake of verifiability, is there a copy of this podcast available that is NOT sequestered behind a paywall?

Otherwise, it appears to me to be deliberately inserted as a subtle self-promoting tool for the podcast creator to increase paid subscribers via this page.

Alternatively, are there other sources available that contain the same content?

The spirit of Wikipedia is in open-source information. Demanding payment to simply check veracity of references seems contrary to that aim.

I hope this makes sense. Thank you. Genetikbliss (talk) 03:09, 24 July 2019 (UTC)

Removal of "personal life" section?

I've noticed that the "personal life" section has disappeared in the past day or so from this page - is that up for discussion at all?

I too would like it if someone gets a good "personal life" section into this Wikipedia, but take into consideration work on this Wikipedia since then:

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Fiona_Apple&oldid=947509612

and "... incorporated its contents into a liner biography of Apple's life ..." https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Fiona_Apple&oldid=951463138

Detailaware (talk) 18:35, 17 July 2020 (UTC)

Bob Dylan

Should Fiona Apple's piano playing on Bob Dylan's Rough and Rowdy Ways (2020) be added by someone who knows how?

2A00:23C5:B381:B401:7543:1646:8246:3CCC (talk) 22:03, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

Heckler Incident

Fiona was all over the news when a heckler told her to "Eat Something" and said "What Happened to You, You Used to be So Beautiful" She left the stage at a concert because of this and a viral video of the incident was all over the place at the time. Have her paid publicists buried this story? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.226.75.156 (talk) 21:21, 23 October 2021 (UTC)

A few good links to wp:reliable sources might be a good place to start. Adakiko (talk) 00:01, 24 October 2021 (UTC)

Other songs not mentioned?....

I saw nothing on here about her singing with the Watkins family hour (when I get low I get high) and I saw nothing on here about her singing with her sister Maude (middle of a riddle, paper moon). It just bothered me because those are some of my favorites!! Lol Any way they can be added on wikipedia if I didnt overlook them being on here?.... Missymotional14u (talk) 18:47, 23 August 2022 (UTC)