Talk:Feyli (tribe)

Ethnocentric efforts by some users

Although the paper is well-documented by authentic citations and scientific resources, some users have tried to change the identity of the paper. Please have a look to citations and prevent them from ethnocentric efforts--Shadegan (talk) 06:06, 12 August 2016

Malicious users are done editing are false and purposeful. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hosseinmosavy (talk • contribs) 13:00, 30 August 2016 (UTC)

Some vandal users try to make ethnocentric edits. I ask the wikipedia adminstators to warn them to stop their baseless edits. There are very authentic citations and the paper is very well-documented.Elimaei (talk) 13:11, 30 August 2016 (UTC)

Malicious users try to enter bogus information in the text . . Ahad.r.fard (talk) 14:30, 30 August 2016 (UTC)

some one who don't know wikipedia rules interffererr in this page please help us.Mogoeilor (talk) 17:28, 30 August 2016 (UTC)

This page has been taken over by extremist Lur nationalists. They have erased this page's history which goes back way before 2016. So please explain to me where did the original page go? Feylis are Kurds, the Iraqi constitution clearly mentions it for God's sake. I have never seen any Feyli identify him or herself with Lurs. You guys are delusional. Moderators need to step in and restore the original page before it was hijacked by extremist Lurs.

Read the constitution here, you can clearly see it mentioned: "the Faili Kurds" http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/28/international/text-of-the-draft-iraqi-constitution.html Avicenna1985 (talk) 01:28, 30 October 2017 (UTC)

A HS:

Feyli Lurs are adjacent to Sorani Kurds and they're not Kurds at all

Both Lurish and Kurdish are Western Iranian languages. Feyli Lurish as the northest part of Lurish has affected on and has been affected by neighbour languages like Kurdish and Hawrami. You can also see such a trend in Southern Lurish-Persian interactions. Why did you compare Feyli Lurish with Khorramabadi that are not neighbors? You can see the citations and referrences in the bottom part of Feyli Lurs paper. You can ask most Feylis in Iraqi side too. "Great Kurdistan" dreams swallow everyone and everything, what a voracious appetite!Ahad.r.fard (talk) 07:15, 1 September 2016 (UTC)

Contested deletion

This article should not be speedy deleted as being recently created, having no relevant page history and duplicating an existing English Wikipedia topic, because... (your reason here) --31.57.39.97 (talk) 11:12, 29 August 2016 (UTC)

Contested deletion

This article should not be speedy deleted as being recently created, having no relevant page history and duplicating an existing English Wikipedia topic, because... (your reason here) --151.239.71.61 (talk) 12:25, 30 August 2016 (UTC) This article try to introduce Feyli Kurds as Lurs. No Lur in Luristan , Charmahal va bakhtiari and Kohgeluieh va boyer ahmad in Iran consider himself as Feyli Kurd. All of them introduce themselves as Lur. Ilam and Kermanshah Kurds who had been under the control of Lur ruler for 4 centuries introduce theselves as Kurd. You can check wikipedia page for Kermanshah, Sarpolezahab,Ghasreshirin, Ilam, Islamabad, Gilanegharb , Eyvan , Malekshahi , Abdanan ,Sirvan and Chardavol. All of these regions didnt introduce themselves as Lur in Wikipedia page in contrast to what has been written in this page that Feylis introduce themselves as Lur. There is no Lurish clothing in above mentioned regions in contrast to what has been written in this page. in above mentioed regions some people use Kurdsih dress and some use Persian formal dress and no one dress Lurish dress. Lurish dress only is used in Luristan, Charmahal va Bakhtiari and Kohgiloieh and by some tribes (only some tribes ) in south of Ilam. Some tribes such as Shuhans, Selyverzis and Kaydkhordeh which comprise 10 % of Ilam province population.Feyli Kurds are Kurd not Lur. I am a Feyli Kurd. A comparison of words used by Feyli Kurd and Lur (Khoram abad Lurs) has been done as following:

Luri - Feyli Kurdish - sorani Kurdish dialect -Farsi - English

Miham - Toam/Xoazem - Detoam/damhavi- Mikham - want

RO - bechoo - bro- boro - go

Tash - agir -Agir- Atash - fire

jomah - Kerwas/shoy - Kerwas/kwa-jameh/pirhan - shirt

Moem - eishem - eishem- Migam - say

dard - jan/ish - jan/ish- dard - pain

omain - Hatin - Hatin- oomadan - come

Harden - xoarden - xoarden- xordan - eat

aftaw - Xoar - xoar-aftab/Khorshid - sun

XOAR - xoeishk - xoeishk-xahar - sister

bawa - bawk - bab-baba - father

verdashten- Halgirten-Halgirten- bardashtan- take

Chor- Miz- Miz- edrar- Urinate

giah/eshkam- zek- sek- shekam- belly

As you can see Lurish words are not similar to Feyli Kurdish words and Luri is very similar to Persian while Feyli Kurdish words are very similar to

Sorani Kurdish dialect.

Feyli Lurs are adjacent to Sorani Kurds and they're not Kurds at all

Both Lurish and Kurdish are Western Iranian languages. Feyli Lurish as the northest part of Lurish has affected on and has been affected by neighbour languages like Kurdish and Hawrami. You can also see such a trend in Southern Lurish-Persian interactions. Why did you compare Feyli Lurish with Khorramabadi that are not neighbors? You can see the citations and referrences in the bottom part of Feyli Lurs paper. You can ask most Feylis in Iraqi side too. "Great Kurdistan" dreams swallow everyone and everything, what a voracious appetite!Ahad.r.fard (talk) 07:06, 1 September 2016 (UTC)

What is the meaning of adjecent , why do Luri words of Khoramabad, Dorud, Pol e doktar and .. are not similar to Feyli Kurds words and are not similar to Sorani Kurdish dialect when you claim that Feyli Kurds and Lurs are speak as same as each others.

Feyli Lur is a Fabricated name made by Luristan Lurs. Feyli Kurd is a common name used in literatures ,reports and articles. Feyli according to Iranica Encyclopedia from 200 years ago so far is used to describe Pust-e Kuh (Ilam) tribes. According to Iranica Encylipedia Pust-e Kuh tribes are Kurds and Mahakis (Beyray Kurd tribe). Wy do you try to made and fabricate a Feyli Lur name when polpulation in Ilam, Kermanshah and Iraqi Feyli Kurds consider and name themselves Feyli Kurd? . I will use the name Persian lurs to describe Luristani Lurs if you continue to use a Fabricated name of FEYLI Lur instead of Feyli Kurd. We suggests Wikipedia suspend your account and remove Fabricated Feyli Lur wikipedia article to prevent any edit by you and your coworkers. FEYLI lur article is silent try by Pan Lurs to deny Feyli Kurds identity just like old Lur ruler (Walis) who deliberately have tried to introduce Pust-e Kuh (ILAM) Kurd tribes as Lur tribes to all of travellers, writers and historian. You as a Lur are not allowed (are you lawyer of Feyli Kurds?), you are not a famous linguistic (if you claim that you are a famous lingustic please inform us and give us your published articles in international journals and demonstrate scientifically Feyli Kurds are not Kurd ) to decide and speak on behalf of Feyli Kurds and claim that Feyli Kurds are not Kurd??!! I can say Lurs are Persian . In Iran Lur population considered as Persia — Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.239.84.108 (talk) 07:52, 2 September 2016 (UTC)

Kurdish is a Persian dialect

• Persian. Kurdish Turkish English
• Âb Âw Su Water
• Šab Šaw Gece Night
• Rûz Rúž Gön Day
• Warzeš warzeš edman sport
• Del del yurag heart
• Dast dast el hand
• To tu sen you
• Sar sar baş head
• Pa pe ayak foot
• Zeban zeman dil language
• Draz dréž uzun long

And all words altogether show that Kurdish is a dialect of Persian language. Despite this because of separation of some Kurdish societies from Iran, this dialect sometimes has been considered as a different language. --Shadegan (talk) 08:32, 2 September 2016 (UTC)

@Shadegan Cyrtii (talk) 06:18, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

Thanks -Shadegan for your comment. You have compared Persian,Kurdish , Turkish and English words and thereby concluded that Kurdish is similar to Persian and Kurdish can be considered as a dialect of Persian language. You are right and based on your conclusion Feyli Kurdish is similar to Sorani Kurdish and is more close to Sorani Kurdish than Luri

As you said Kurdish can be considered as a dialect of Persian language just like Luri. I am not advocating Kurds. I am Feyli Kurd and I try to focous only on identity of Feyli Kurds. Feyli Kurds are Shia and Northern Iraqi Kurd dont try to solve their problems. When i read Kurd massacre i see Northern Iraqi Kurds try to magnifiy Halabjeh massacre and undermine the massacre of Feyli Kurds i feel disappointment. I see an obvious discrimination between Northern Iraqi Kurds and Iraqi Feyli Kurds. Be sure that I am not a Pan Kurd. I am an Iranian Shia Kurd and enjoy equality in Iran. Another question which can be asked is why all of kurds consider themselves as kurd ??? . There is no obligation for Kurmanj, Soran and Zaza, Feyli Kurd speakers to consider themselves as Kurd. Why do you try to obligate Ilami , Kermanshahi and other Feyli Kurds to accept they are Lur???. You can refer me to all of Books, articles and travelers daily writings from 400 years ago so far (400 years ago Pust-e Kuh was captured by Lur rulers). As you Know old local governments all over the world have tried to unify their people with different dialect and race. I am Feyli Kurd as I know all of Ilami and Kermanshahi Feyli Kurds (not Ilami Lurs) consider themselves as Shia Feyli Kurd and no one consider himself as Lur. What is your goal?? are you think that you can change the idea of Feyli Kurds to bring them in your group and organize them as Lur??. My brothers Please accept Feyli Kurds as Shia Kurds with historical ties with Lurs. Feyli Kurds are Part of Iran and followers of 12 Imam Shia. My grand father has died 70 years a go he didn't see any satellite program to be excited and name himself as Kurd but he has said that we are Shia Kurds (Kurmanji Khorasani Kurds are also Shia) and we are not Lur. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.239.70.145 (talk) 09:17, 2 September 2016 (UTC)

You are denying all evident resources about our Lurishness

You are kidding! My example was a reply to your rambling about Lurish is avdialect of Persian! You had concluded because of some similarities Feyli Lurish is a Kurdish dialect and Lurish is a dialect of Persian! I'm sure that you are a Pan Kurd because you are denying evident realities about Feyli Lurs. You can have a look to the citations and referrences below this page. You can also search about Feyli Lurs via internet and find suitable and authentic sources for their Lurishness. Voracious appetite of expanding territories of so called "Great Kurdistan" will result in a virtual fratricide. Please don't deny our identity.--Shadegan (talk) 16:29, 2 September 2016 (UTC)

There is no kidding Shagegan. You have expressed that using comparison you could find that Kurdish is similar to Persian and thus can be considered as a Persian dialect .I have compared Sorani ,Feyli Kurdsh and Luri to demonstrate that Feyli Kurdish is similar to Sorani Kurdish and different from Luri

Dear Shadegan

You can follow this address ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Iranian_languages) and see that Luri is a Southwestern Iranian language as a dialect of Farsi. In contrast to Luri (Khoram abadi, Bakhtiari and Kohgiluieh) Feyli Kurdish is classified as Northwestern I Iranian language. You are a Pan Lur that can not accept results of linguistics researches . This is your problem not mine. Can you change the opinion of linguistics to classify Feyli Kurds under Lurs ??. Please present your researches on Feyli Kurds and try to change the conclusion of linguistics from 100 years ago so far. It seems that you are trying to form a Great Luristan using Non-Lur tribes. Definitely you are completing the puzzle of Iran integrity enemies. Some Pan Kurds try to say that Lurs are Kurd and you try to help them because you say that Feyli Kurds are Lur. Based on your conclusion Pan Kurds will try to claim more territory because you are paving their way. Feyli Kurds are part of Kurdish community and you can not separate them from Kurds. If you claim that you are advocating the integrity of Iran dont let Pan Kurds to consider Lur territories (Khoram abadi, Bakhtiari and Kohgiluieh) as Kurdish regions. I am trying to say that Lurs (Khoram abadi, Bakhtiari and Kohgiluieh) are different from Feyli Kurds but you are trying to say that Lurs and Feyli Kurds are same things.Obviously you are trying to form a Great Luristan to present to Pan Kurds. I didn't deny identity of Lurs but you have tried to introduce us (Feyli Kurds) as Lur while we do not consider and didn't consider ourselves as Lur. Can you hear me Pan Lur?? We Feyli Kurds) are not Lur. Lurs are living in Khoram Abad, Boroujerd, Malayer, Nahavand, Dorud, Pole Dokhtar, Andimeshk, Some tribes in south of Ilam (only some tribes), Aligoudarz, Azna, Ardal, Farsan, Lordegan, Kiyar, Kohgilooieh and Boier Ahmad Province. You are not a Feyli Kurd , you are a Lur. Please dont consider yourself as a Feyli Kurd and dont say "we ". Because you are Lur and We are Kurd and you can not add Lurs to Feyli Kurds — Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.239.74.109 (talk) 12:45, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

Please dont try to change the identity of Feyli Kurds ,Feyli Kurds are Shia (Like Kurmanji Khorasan Kurds who are also Shia) and enjoy equality in Iran.

Dear Lur

According to Encyclopedia Iranica During the two centuries in which the whole of Luristan was ruled by hereditary wālīs all the tribes in the region were called Feylī ( It can be concluded that all of tribes include Kurds and Lurs had been called Feyli).At the beginning of the 19th century, the situation changed. Moḥammad-ʿAlī Mīrzā, eldest son of Fatḥ-ʿAlī Shah Qājār (1212-50/1797-1834) and governor-general of Kermānšāh, seized Pīš-e Kūh (the eastern part of Luristan), leaving to the wālī only Pošt-e Kūh (the western part). Furthermore, according to Encyclopedia Iranica the name Feylī had been previously associated with the Solvīzī dynasty, it (or Feyli word) came to denote only those tribes in the Pošt-e Kūh (Ilam). Explicitly, Encylopedia Iranica indicates that from 200 years ago so far Feyli name has been attributed to Pusht-e Kuh or Ilam not Khoram Abad or what we know Lurisatn today. This Encyclopedia reports that The two major Feylī tribes in Pusht-e Kuh region (Ilam Province) are Kord and Mahakī (in other words the Encyclopedia confess that Ilami tribes are Kurds).If Ilami tribes were Lur why Iranica Encyclopedia didn't say that Ilami Tribes are Lur and in contrast to Pan Lurs propaganda over Lurish identiy of Ilam Encyclopedia Iranica has noted that Pusht-e Kuh (Ilam) tribes are Kord and Mahaki (Mahaki is Kurdish dialect of Beyray tribe in Ilam) . According to this encyclopedia Pusht-e Kuh (Ilam) tribes are Feyli (Because from 200 years ago up to now Feyli word exclusively hase been used to describe Ilam or Pusht-e Kuh not Khoram abad and Lurs) and to describe Feyli Kurds not Lurs. Nevertheless this Encyclopedia can cause some misunderstandings because it has noted that FEYLĪ, group of Lor tribes located mainly in Luristan (it means is old Luristan including Pish Kuh and Pusht-e Kuh). However, in second paragraph (Title: Feyli) Encyclopedia Iranica reports that Pusht-e Kuh (Ilam) tribes are Kurd not Lur. I suggest Wikipedia to remove fabricated Feyli Lur article because Feyli Lur article is a modified copy of documented Feyli Kurd article.

This is the correct name. This is what Iranica uses.Drako (talk) 20:07, 15 September 2016 (UTC)

Stop swallowing everyone and everywhere to expand so-called GREAT KURDISTAN!! territory!

Dear realistic Encyclopedia users, there, has been a page by the name: Feyli people but due to some ethnocentric efforts by some amateur users this name has changed to a challenging name Feyli Kurds!!!!. By the way, this caused a strong resistance and opposition notes by Lurish and realistic users of Wikipedia. As it is evident Feylis are and have been an integral part of Lurish community. For decades the title Kurd has attributed to Iranian nomads from total Iran plateau. This phrase included Persian, Lurish and other Iranian nomads. In case of Lurish people, due to signifcfgant similarities and interrelationships they were claimed several times by Kurdish authors to be a branch of so-called Greater Kurdistan. This claim was not welcomed by Lurish community. In Iraq, but the condition has been different. Historically due to bad behaviour received by Arab adjacent groups for centuries and decades (Saddam era cruelty and Anfal genocide tragedy are only a recently well-documented subject) and their significant similarities and interrelationships by their Kurdish adjacent communities, they oriented towards Kurdish integration although they have not denied their Lurish origins at all. I do not deny significant similarities between thesetwo ethnic groups, but historical and routine evidences confirm their Lurish identity.Shadegan (talk) 12:36, 18 September 2016 (UTC)

Examine science-based valid papers and inserted referrences below the page instead of baseless indeterminate debates

The page Feyli Lurs is a very well-documented page. I think there is no doubt in Lurish identity of Feyli people.Mehramooz (talk) 13:54, 18 September 2016 (UTC)

Encylopedia Iranica is fully reliable and well documented .

Encycopedia Iranica is a well documented and scientific reference (http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/feyli--2). Furthermore, This Wikipedia page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Iranian_languages) indicates that Luri belongs to southwestern Iranian Language and Feyli Kurdish (Southern Kurdish) is a Northeastern Iranian Language. Do you think you are more inform than Encylopedia Iranica .You can claim that Wikipedia page needs edition , thus you can edit Wikipedia page title: Iranian Languages and move Feyli Kurdish beside Luri which has been classified as a dialect of Persian language. I am sure that you have no reliable document that based on it you can move Feyli Kurdish under Luri which has been classified as a dialect of Persian .This is not my fault that linguistics classified Feyli Kurdish as a Northeastern Language and also classified Luri as Southwestern group as dialect of persian. Please see Iranian Language Wikipedia page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Iranian_languages) and think about your claims on Lurish identity of Feyli Kurds. Finally, you can check the Wikipedia page for all of Ilam province cities such as Ilam, Eyvan, Sirvan, Chardavol , Malekshahi , .... . you can not see any word which show that the people live in this regions consider themselves as Lur. They are strongly disagree to be named Lur since they believe that their fathers and ancestors never said that they are Lur. Now, other readers can judge that your claims are baseless or what i have written. I have a suggestion and i am agree you divide Feyli people as two groups Feyli Kurds (live in Pusht-e Kuh or Ilam province) and Feyli Lurs (live in Pish-e Kuh or Luristan province) because based on Encyclopedia Iranica During the two centuries in which the whole of Luristan was ruled by hereditary wālīs all the tribes in the region were called Feylī . It can be concluded that all of tribes include Kurds and Lurs had been called Feyli since in second paragraph Encyclopedia Iranica has noted that Pusht-e Kuh (Ilam) tribes are Kord and Mahaki (Mahaki is Kurdish dialect of Beyray tribe in Ilam). Here can i ask you what is your documented reference for your claims. Pleas dont refer me to Amanollahi, Baharvand and other Lur-Native authors. I prefer you present your documents from non Iranian linguistics who are not advocating Lurs. Moreover, you can show me your documents from Encylopedia Iranica??. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.239.72.88 (talk) 12:02, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

Please everyone have a look to Iranica to percieve the realities

Dear free encyclopedia users, the above mentioned debate referrs to Iranica (http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/feyli--2) to prove his/her fake claims and continued ethnocentric edits. I ask you to have a look in the above mentioned websites to understand who we are debating with!! Best regards. Shadegan (talk) 13:42, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

The Feylis are kurdish (perhaps as well)

I am a feyli kurd living in northern Europe with two parents who are ethnically feyli kurds from the villages of Rohwar and Ali Shirwan outside of the city of Ilam in south-western Iran. We are not, nor have we ever identified with, Lorestan or the Lorish people. We are hundreds of families all around Europe, and we've also engaged in several organizations that bring up our kurdish ethnicity, and I'd like to show you studies such as:

• http://www.faylee.org/english/
• https://ethnicgeography.wordpress.com/2013/09/24/feyli-kurds-1/ -- https://ethnicgeography.wordpress.com/2013/09/29/the-feyli-kurds-part-2-the-languages-of-the-feyli-kurds/ -- https://ethnicgeography.wordpress.com/2013/10/07/the-feyli-kurds-part-3-the-feyli-kurds-of-iraq/
• Google for more info.

Now I've read much about Feylis being "in a conflict between their faith (Shia) and they ethnicity (kurdish)", and that we are more "Iranian" than kurdish when it comes to our dialect and cultural behavior, but never before have I heard or read anything about us being a lorish people.

I do believe that there's no smoke without a fire, so if there indeed are Feylis that identify themselves as Lorish and/or part of Lorestan, then I suggest splitting this article into two separate articles:

1. Feyli Lurs
2. Feyli kurds

Since Feyli kurds are an established part of the Iraqi, Irani and indeed the european community with international and national conferences held to the culture of the Feyli kurdish ways, I don't see it as fair to the utter majority of the feylis I've met (and I've even been to Ilam, Kermanshah and several villages surrounding Ilam in South-western Iran, they all claim to be feyli kurds) to simply disregard their/our ethnic allegiance and simply refer to us as lurs.

Edit: Happy new year!

Lightonia (talk) 21:13, 31 December 2016 (UTC)

Feylis are Lurs, because:

Dear Lightonia!

You can have a look to these websites and links too:

• http://faylee.org/?article=455
• http://www.hawaiilibrary.net/articles/fayli_kurds#The_Feylis_in_the_Iraqi_society

and

• http://faylee.org/?article=277

in these links like other science-based links, they have referrsd to Lurish identity and origin of Feylis. Although I approve that in Iraq they consider themselves as both Lur and Kurd simultaneously.

By the way, as you and everybody know, until 6 decades ago, Ilam province was known formally as Poshtekooh Luristan (Highlander Lurland), you deny? --Shadegan (talk) 09:20, 10 January 2017 (UTC)

I do not understand why people do not get that Feyli Kurds and Feyli Lurs both exist, but they are different groups, they even speak different languages. Your sources are completely unreliable, they are based on many other sources but changes "kurd" to "lur". Let me give an example, this is from the second link:

"(..) which was attended by the Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki. Al-Maliki said in a speech "the Feyli lurs have been targets for harming, similar to other Iraqi communities".

In the original statement of Maliki in arabic, he said "feyli kurds". But the author changed it to lur during translation, making the rest of the article dubious and unreliable.

Feyli Kurds and Feyli Lurs both exist and are different (albeit related) groups

It is very sad to see this article be vandalised like this by nationalists of various sort. I have several times provided recent academic papers saying that feyli kurds and feyli lurs are different groups. The whole debate about whether "feylis" are kurds or lurs make no sense. Feyli kurds identify as kurds and speak southern kurdish dialect, feyli lurs identify as lurs and speak northern luri. The reason why some kurds go under the name "feyli" has roots from the time when Feyli Luri Valis ruled areas where they lived. I give up on this issue as this article keeps getting vandalized by people that do not care about facts and academic research. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2607:FEA8:1D5F:FB98:B4B2:2108:5BDD:C833 (talk) 16:36, 2 February 2017 (UTC)

In contrary with your claims, there is no Feyli Kurd originally, but fabricated by Kurd nationalists to attach more territories to their lands. Isn't Iranica a reliable source? There are sufficient highly valid citations mentioned in the article.Shadegan (talk) 20:20, 10 February 2017 (UTC)

Interesting, is this how you explain why the article title is Feyli Lurs? Persian and Iraqi nationalists know everything but Feyli Kurds is fabricated name? Ferakp (talk) 20:19, 3 May 2017 (UTC)

Here is a recent academic paper from Ilam University mentioning the difference between feyli kurds and feyli lurs: http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00210862.2014.913423?journalCode=cist20 I am myself of Ilami origin, we call ourselves feyli kurds and identify as kurds. Our language is southern kurdish and almost indistinguishable from the majority language spoken in Kermanshah province. We also share a lot with northern lurs (like in Luristan province), but significantly less than with Kermanshah. The languages and cultures form a continuum, and any sharp ethnic division will contain lots of ambiguity. If you deny the right of people that identify as kurds, then what you are doing is vandalising the article based on nationalistic reasons. There are clearly two groups using the name feyli, one that speaks southern kurdish and another speaking northern luri (these are linguistically distinct). The reason why they share a name is explained in the paper above and has historical reasons. Therefore it makes sense to have separate articles for both, and explain their relations. 2607:FEA8:1D5F:FB98:486D:5B98:8758:5502 (talk) 09:39, 31 March 2017 (UTC)

The article name

The article name Feyli Lurs is confusing. It isn't covering the whole content of the article. The Feyli Kurds aren't Feyli Lurs and this article is using the Feyli Lurs name to cover all Feylis using sources that are based on Iranica. For this reason, I will request the article name to be changed to "Feylis" as it's more general term and it covers all Feylis. Comments and opinions are welcome. Ferakp (talk) 00:52, 8 April 2017 (UTC)

The author of that article in Iranica is Pierre Oberling, distinguished ethnologist, he said nothing about "Feyli Kurds", the name of the article is fine. -- Mazandar (talk) 05:58, 8 April 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for your opinion. I disagree, there are other sources that doesn't use name "Feyli Lurs". Waiting other users to comment. Ferakp (talk) 20:09, 8 April 2017 (UTC)

Deleted source and content

Please, explain your changes before deleting content and sources. Do you have any to confirm Izady is an unreliable source? Ferakp (talk) 20:10, 8 April 2017 (UTC)

Ferakp

@Ferakp: You engaged in an edit war, you should be more careful, I already explained the reason in my edit summaries. Mehrdad Izady is not a specialist on Iranian languages, so his opinion can't be mentioned in the article. He also seems to be a Kurdish nationalist. The reference for Encyclopedia Islamica is also a fake one, it is not even cited properly. And the sentence "Nowadays, Pahleh is a city in Ilam Province." is unsourced and WP:OR. You should have a good reason for your revert. -- Mazandar (talk) 20:16, 8 April 2017 (UTC)

Yeah Mehrdad Izady is definitely not reliable. He seems to be living in his own fictitious world. --HistoryofIran (talk) 21:13, 8 April 2017 (UTC)

@Mazandar: You are engaging in a Disruptive editing and edit war. The article is about Feylis, not Iranian languages. Deleting sources and content without using the talk page is not a good way to defend your edits. Ferakp (talk) 15:14, 9 April 2017 (UTC)

See WP:BRD, you reverted a revert, this is edit war. That section is named "Etymology", so it is related to linguistics, and you are expected to cite a source by a linguist. I'm waiting for your sources, otherwise I have to delete that unreliable source. -- Mazandar (talk) 15:24, 9 April 2017 (UTC)

(Sorry for jumping into your discussion) I have cited recent academic sources on this issue countless of times, but people keep ignoring. This academic peer-reviewed paper (see below) from Ilam University (where many feylis live and are thus experts on the issue) has done a thorough study of the Language Distribution in Ilam province. They clearly state that both Feyli lurs (speaking nothern luri dialect) and Feyli kurds (speaking southern kurdish dialect) exist, they are two separate groups. In Ilam province they find that 80% are kurdish, 6% are Laki (linguistically also classified as southern kurdish dialect), 10% are Lurs, 2% are arabs and the rest are persians. They even explain the historical reason why both groups share the name "feyli". The name originates from feyli lurs, but kurds living under the rule of Feyli luri governors adapted the name due to prestige (as is very common around the world). For this reason, many people confuse these two groups. Some academic literature that is not concerned with the this ethnic/linguistic subtlety, confuse people to think they are the same group. Partly because there are two different definitions of "lur" used often: 1) (linguistic) people that speak a dialect of luri, 2) (historic) people that used to be ruled by lurs. Groups 2 is larger than 1. People that write general overviews of Luristan's history, use definition 2 and do not delve into these subtleties. This is for example the case for the very short article on iranicaonline that people keep refering to (although it does mention that the name feyli became used for all tribes in the region due to the feyli ruling elite).

But as allways, I expect people to keep vandalising this article.

Source: On Language Distribution in Ilam Province, Iran (Journal of Iranian Studies Volume 48, 2015 - Issue 6) Link: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/00210862.2014.913423

2607:FEA8:1D5F:FB98:94A9:12DC:3A29:D9D5 (talk) 19:38, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

The religion

The religion section needs reliable sources. Ferakp (talk) 15:21, 9 April 2017 (UTC)

Article title

The article title is confusing. As I mentioned before, this article uses Feyli Lurs, which is not based on reliable sources and which is against other sources. Other sources use Feyli Kurds or Feylis but the person who has changed the article title has used "Feyli Lurs" without explaining it. Feyli Lurs, Feylis and Feyli Kurds aren't necessarily meaning the same thing. Also, the article says Feyli Lurs are part of Lur people while the source says "groups of Lor tribes".

I am requesting admins to change the title to Feylis which covers all Feylis, including Feyli Kurds and Lurs. The user who defended the name "Feyli Lurs" is basing his/her sources on linguistic sources while the another user had responded to him why his claim is not appropriate. The user used reliable source. Here is his source: [1]. Ferakp (talk) 20:04, 3 May 2017 (UTC)

Another source by the United Nations use Feyli, not Feyli Lurs. [2] Ferakp (talk) 20:07, 3 May 2017 (UTC)

UNCHR source mention Feyli Kurds. [3] Ferakp (talk) 20:14, 3 May 2017 (UTC)

Here is Feyli Kurd organization. [4] Ferakp (talk) 20:14, 3 May 2017 (UTC)

Adding another source which uses Feyli Kurds. [5] Ferakp (talk) 20:15, 3 May 2017 (UTC)

Another source uses Feyli Kurds. [6] Ferakp (talk) 20:21, 3 May 2017 (UTC)

A book which clearly mentions Feyli Kurds. [7] Ferakp (talk) 20:23, 3 May 2017 (UTC)

None of them are reliable, you should cite those sources that are written by ethnologists. -- Mazandar (talk) 07:54, 4 May 2017 (UTC)

To prove a source is not reliable, you need to explain it. By saying "this and that" is not a reliable source isn't really a proof that these sources are not reliable. I have added sources from the UNCH, UN and a scientific article. You are welcome to explain why they aren't "reliable" using Wikipedia standards. I would love hear it. Ferakp (talk) 13:53, 4 May 2017 (UTC)

I already explained, perhaps you should read WP:RS if you haven't already. "Reliable sources may be published materials with a reliable publication process, authors who are regarded as authoritative in relation to the subject, or both." UNHCR deals with refugees, this article is about an ethnic group. Same goes with your other sources. -- Mazandar (talk) 17:57, 4 May 2017 (UTC)

The other source is reliable and made by researchers. UNCHR and other sources clearly mention them as Feyli Kurds. About WP:RS, I have read it and I told you to explain why they aren't reliable sources. You are repeating the same story again and again without answering questions. Ferakp (talk) 18:25, 4 May 2017 (UTC)

Please carefully read my comments. Your sources are not written by specialists on the subjects, this is the third time I'm explaining this, I even quoted the relevant part from the guidelines. Let me clarify things a bit more. Your book is not reliable, it is written by "Wikipeidans" and published by a software development company. That makes it an unreliable source per guidelines. This one is just a media outlet and the author is a correspondent, again, not a reliable source. This one is again about refugees, I'm sure you can use this source in an article about refugees, but not in this article which is about an ethnic group. Let me repeat it for one more time: you should cite sources that are written by specialists on the subject, by ethnologists. -- 18:58, 4 May 2017 (UTC)

You picked the sources that serve your agenda and left others. Here is the source clearly mentioning about the difference between Feyli Kurds and Feyli Lurs: [8]. Other sources, as I mentioned, were intended to support this. The another problem with this title is that the source you use is Iranian and it says "groups of Lor tribes" but you have edited the article and said "part of Lur people". Even your own source doesn't support your claim, see WP:OR. Plus, I am here trying to clearly bring the neutrality to the article. Feyli Kurds and Lurs under the name of "Feylis". The Feyli organization, the UN, UNCHR, Iraqi sources and Kurdish sources use Feyli Kurds, not even Feylis, despite that I believe the name of this article should be Feylis. Feyli Kurds and Feyli Lurs should be mentioned inside the article. There is a clear difference between Feyli Lurs and Feyli Kurds. There is no source which says Feyli Kurds are part of Feyli Lurs. They even consider themselves Feyli Kurds. Ferakp (talk) 18:05, 5 May 2017 (UTC)

I agree with Ferakp that the article's title must be changed to just Feylis, Feylis describe the article better than Feyli Lurs, an author or even group of scholars can't decide the identity of Feylis, Feylis themselves will decide, It's better to leave details for the article not ending the history in just it's title, it's unfair if someone want to read about Feylis and see this. ArezKader (talk) 20:18, 5 May 2017 (UTC)

Ferakp, be very careful with your wording, "You picked the sources that serve your agenda" is a personal attack and you violated WP:CIVIL. Besides, I didn't write "part of Lur people" in the article, so again, be careful before accusing others (though I changed that part per the source). I already explained why your sources are unreliable and I don't want to repeat it for the fourth time. This one deals with the language, not with ethnicity. Ethnicity and language are different things. There's no source to prove that "Feyli Kurds" and "Feyli Lurs" are the same people, so I don't see any reason to include the information about "Feyli Kurds" in this article. If someone is claiming they are same, then they should provide a source for it. If "Feyli Kurds" are a different ethnic group than "Feyli Lurs" and they have different identity, then feel free to start another article about "Feyli Kurds" based on reliable sources that are written by specialists. -- Mazandar (talk) 08:03, 6 May 2017 (UTC)

I told you to prove that sources are not reliable and you again tried to change the topic. Now, accusing me for personal attack? The sources I mentioned clearly separate Feyli Lurs and Feyli Kurds. You are the one who tries to defend that Feyli Kurds are "Feyli Lurs" and I am very curious to know what are your sources. The article has put Feylis and Feyli Kurds under the name of Feyli Lurs. Do you have any sources that could support this? If not, your comments are not appropriate. Ferakp (talk) 18:46, 6 May 2017 (UTC)

Ferakp, I think you're misunderstanding what Mazandar is saying. --HistoryofIran (talk) 19:19, 6 May 2017 (UTC)

No, I am not misunderstanding him. I am still waiting someone to support the claim that Feyli Kurds are Feyli Lurs. The title of this article is not correct, it should be Feylis, not Feyli Lurs because Feyli Kurds have different dialect and they don't even consider themselves as Lurs as many my sources clearly mention this. Ferakp (talk) 22:10, 8 May 2017 (UTC)

Feyli Lurs and Feyli Kurds are the same

There is no distinguishing factor netween feyli people and all of them are Lurish Iranian originally. You can consider Habib Karim for example [. He was a Feyli Lur of nominee for vice prsident of Iraq but rejected by Saddam Hossein because of his Lurish origin.

Do you have any sources that support the claim that Feylis and Feyli Kurds are Feyli Lurs? The Iranica calls them Feyli and other sources use Feylis or Feyli Kurds. Ferakp (talk) 16:54, 10 May 2017 (UTC)

It seems your request is not authentic.Iranica explains Feylis as Lur tribes and you use Iranica as a source to question the article title? You have better introduce sources claiming Feyli Kurds are of a different source from Feyli Lurs.Shadegan (talk) 02:58, 14 May 2017 (UTC)

You are again trying to change the topic. Let me repeat one more time, do you have any source which could support the title of this article? Why the title is Feyli Lurs but not Feylis like Iranica and other sources mention? Are all Feyli people, including Feyli Kurds, called Feyli Lurs? If yes, do you have a source to support this? Why Iranica and tens of others sources use Feylis to describe Feyli people but this article uses Feyli Lurs? This article is about Feyli people and it uses the title Feyli Lurs despite the vast majority of sources that are against it. Ferakp (talk) 03:37, 14 May 2017 (UTC)

You can take a look to the following links:

[9], and download this pdf document [10] to find out your answer about uniformity of Feylis.SHADEGAN (talk) 20:30, 26 May 2017 (UTC)

User Ferakp

The user has created a new article, Persecution of Feyli Kurds under Saddam Hussein and now wanted to redirect it Feyli Kurdish genocide. I think he is trying to bypass the dispute on this talk page. It is hard to assume WP:GF in this case. Thus, I wanna inform the involved editors: @Mazandar:@Shadegan:@151.239.72.88:. 81.171.7.237 (talk) 09:09, 26 May 2017 (UTC)

Ok, thanks alot. SHADEGAN (talk) 20:32, 26 May 2017 (UTC)

Not sure what is your point but the article I made was originally named as "The Persecution of Feylis under Saddam Hussein" and it was renamed by admins. I am not bypassing the dispute on this talk page and I will return to this article as soon as I find more time. Ferakp (talk) 12:33, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

Feyli Lurs or Feyli Kurds

What. Are they Lurs or Kurds? What's the conclusion. You can't be part of two nations. Beshogur (talk) 17:31, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

Seems like some identify themselves as Kurds, other as Lurs. --HistoryofIran (talk) 18:46, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

What's the source for that? As far I know, Feylis in Iraq are aligned with Shia's and they don't consider themself as Kurds. If I look at Kurdistan map's they're trying to take are provinces of Luristan. Luris aren't Kurds. Beshogur (talk) 20:58, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

Due to dreams to creat a bigger Kurdistan, Kurd nationaliats are trying to include and attach more territories. By the way they're successful sometimes in broadcoasting and propaganda at least.SHADEGAN (talk) 10:23, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

There is a clear distinction between those that identify as kurds and those that identify as lurs, it's linguistic! Those that speak southern kurdish identify as kurds while those that speak northern luri identify as lurs. And as a feyli kurd with lots of family in Iraq I find it mind blowing to see claims that feylis in Iraq don't identify as kurds. Even those 100% against kurdish nationalism and pro iraq or iran (incl. ppl in my family), identify as kurds. When I get time I will post lots of literature, tv shows etc by feyli kurds in Iran and Iraq that shows they identify as kurds. You guys are mixing two different groups of people using the name "feyli" and it is getting really annoying. -Heidar 2607:FEA8:1D5F:FB98:44FC:D603:81FC:7909 (talk) 03:28, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

What happened to the original Feyli Kurds page? Why has all the history of this page been deleted?

This page has been taken over by extremist Lur nationalists. They have erased this page's history which goes back way before 2016. So please explain to me where did the original page go? Feylis are Kurds, the Iraqi constitution clearly mentions it for God's sake. I have never seen any Feyli identify him or herself with Lurs. You guys are delusional. Moderators need to step in and restore the original page before it was hijacked by extremist Lurs.

Read the constitution here, you can clearly see it mentioned: "the Faili Kurds" http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/28/international/text-of-the-draft-iraqi-constitution.html

Full protection

This ridiculous edit war has gone on for well over a month now so I have full protected the article (meaning only admins can edit it) indefinitely, i.e. until the dispute is resolved. I have locked both articles in the position of actually having content, rather than arbitrarily choosing one to redirect to the other. I am far from an expert in this topic area and frankly would rather not get involved with ethnocentric issues such as this, but this page is on my watchlist due to previous administrative intervention on the title.

My suspicion on reading over what was legible of the talk page is that this article and Feyli Kurds should be merged with due weight given to each academic viewpoint. The resulting merged article should probably then be moved to an NPOV title such as "Feyli people". But as I said, I am not an expert in this area so I leave to those involved in this dispute to make their case. Please cite reliable sources to back your position, refrain from making comments about the motivations of other editors, and remember to sign your posts. Thanks, Jenks24 (talk) 09:34, 30 November 2017 (UTC)

There's no such thing as a Feyli Lur

I myself am Feyli, and I'm the nephew of one of the former revolution-leaders against Saddam Hussein during the 70s. Feyli kurds are ethnically kurdish, and I have yet not met a single Feyli, in Iraq, Iran or anywhere else that identify as a Lor. The first, and last, time I heard such a thing was in this quite strange article. Even if we were called Lorish over a thousand years ago - that doesn't change the current situation. No greek city call themselves Pontan, or English call themselves Anglo-saxon.

I shall try to cite reliable sources showing that Feyli are kurdish:

UNHCR article, published by the Canadian board of immigration and refugees, citing Amnesty International, clearly states that Feyli are kurdish - and have been oppressed in Iraq due to being kurdish and shia.

Invitation to the first INTERNATIONAL CONFERENCE ON FAYLEE KURDS IN EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT, by the kurdish institute in Brussels.

World Directory of Minorities and Indigenous Peoples - article describing the Feyli kurdish people and our history

Another UNHCR article on the persecution of Feyli kurds

Report on Feyli kurds refugee status by the australian Refugee Review Tribunal.

And last but not least;

A news article by kurdish national newspaper Rudaw on a monument having been erected in Baghdad in honor of Feyli Kurds paid for by feyli kurdish families around the world, such as mine, my relatives and friends. Why would we pay for a monument, and demand it from the local governments in federal Iraq and the Kurdistan region - if we don't identify as kurdish?

The ethnological conclusion of Feylis being lorish is mistaken and rips us of our cultural identity. I have been to Lorestan and Kurdistan and I have seen the differences in culture, in traditional clothing, in dialect and in langugage. Feyli kurds and Lor are similar people, such as Norwegians and Swedes, or Danes and Icelandic people - but we are not the same.

Ironically enough, if you view the main map that depicts the Feyli areas, you clearly see the divide between Lurish areas and Feylis.

I recommend the deletion of this article and possibly adding a section to the Feyli Kurds article that states that some Lurs call themselves Feylis, however I'd probably need a verifiable reason for that discrepancy.

Thanks for the discussion! Lightonia (talk) 11:35, 23 January 2019 (UTC)

References

Protected edit request on 30 May 2019

Remove the duplicate |pop1=, |region1=, |ref1= at the top of the infobox, which is causing this page to appear in Category:Pages using duplicate arguments in template calls Frietjes (talk) 14:55, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

 Not done @Frietjes: that page is not protected, you can edit it directly. — xaosflux ^Talk 19:33, 1 June 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 11 November 2021

Honeymoney001 (talk) 12:30, 11 November 2021 (UTC)

I would like to Edit Honeymoney001 (talk) 12:30, 11 November 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: requests for decreases to the page protection level should be directed to the protecting admin or to Wikipedia:Requests for page protection if the protecting admin is not active or has declined the request. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 12:32, 11 November 2021 (UTC)

Photo of traditional clothes

Traditional clothing photos are wrong. We don't dress this way. Please change the photo.TheRizgar (talk) 16:39, 17 May 2022 (UTC)

Religion

No source on the internet mention them to be Sunnis, while nearly all state that they are Shia Muslims. For example, Australian government’s website states; “ Unlike the majority of Kurds, who are generally Sunni Muslims adhering to the Shaf’i school of Islam, Faili Kurds are Shi’a. Faili Kurds’ dual Shi’a and Kurdish identity has historically exposed them to stigmatisation and persecution.” [11] 120.18.10.39 (talk) 11:13, 2 December 2022 (UTC)

Large Sunni minority???? where is the proof for this? This is false. This shoudl be changed to just say "Mostly Shia" or "majority Shia"

Feyli kurdish identity in Iraq developed as a separate identity because of Feyli Kurds being Shi'a and speaking a unique kurdish dialect.

There are some Kurdish groups who are Sorani and Kurmanji speaking that share tribal origins with Feylis but they are Sunni, do not speak the Feyli dialect, and do not identify as feyli kurds in any capcacity. Feyli as a term is strictly used in Iraq to identify speakers of Palewani/Southern Kurdish (called Feyli Kurdish dialect in Iraq), all of whom in Iraq are of the Shi'a sect.

Sunni Kurds do not speak this language/dialect of kurdish and therefore cannot be identified as Feylis. Furthermore every city, town, and district where Feyli Kurds are present in Iraq and Iran are all Shi'a majority (Khanaqin, Mandali, Zorbatiya, Ali Al-Gharbi, Al-Kut, Al-Amarah, Baghdad, Ilam, Musian, Dehloran, Delfan, Arkawazi, Malekshahi).

This should be changed to just say mostly Shia or majority Shia. 170.223.207.26 (talk) 18:22, 14 February 2024 (UTC)