Talk:Fernanda Farias de Albuquerque

Article needs additional citations

I have been asked to explain, by GnocchiFan, why I tagged this article as needing additional in-line citations. The help page, "Referencing for beginners" points out that in-line citation references should be placed after each fact that a citation supports, or at the end of the sentence. I interpret this to mean that, as a minimum, every sentence will have at least one citation, if not more. Rather than pepper the article with individual citation needed tags, I chose to tag the whole article, assuming that it would be apparent that each fact and sentence needed a citation or two. Clearly, I am mistaken in making this assumption. However, rather than now go through the article and tag every sentence, which would turn it into a bit of a mess, perhaps, first, some effort needs to go into documenting the sources that can be used to develop this article.

Firstly, this article has been translated from the Italian article, with the citations appearing in pretty much the same place, too. Consequently, any citation weakness in the Italian article is also mirrored in the English article. On the other hand there is also a Portuguese article, which uses different sources, so can be used to improve upon the Italian translation by providing additional factual support from a different language translation. Although the two Wikipedia articles tell similar stories, they are presented in slightly different ways.

However, with almost no reliable English language sources available on-line, English-only readers and editors alike are dependent on machine translation of both these foreign language articles and their sources. While machine translation is fairly reliable, these days, there is always the possibility that something essential about the article might be lost in translation and the source be misinterpreted by the editor. That is why each fact needs a cited source, so that subsequent editors, who might be fluent translators, can review the sources and pick up on any misinterpretations or mis-translations. Also, having sources from multiple languages tends to reduce the chance of misinterpretation because the essential facts should be able to be found in the sources of one or other of the articles. While conflicting information in the sources might be due to a mis-translation or misunderstanding of the sources concerned.

The aim here is to write a better biography in English that is more informative than either of the existing foreign language articles currently are. - Cameron Dewe (talk) 05:18, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

Thank you very much for giving a detailed reason for the tags, and I hope you don't think I was being rude in asking. I acknowledge I do not speak Italian or Portuguese fluently, so as you say we have to bear in mind the errors of machine translation. Taking into consideration all those caveats, I have tried to verify all information to the sources as much as I can. Genuinely looking forward to improving this article as best as I can with the help of yourself and others GnocchiFan (talk) 17:43, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

@GnocchiFan: Asking questions about the actions of an editor is not rude, it is an expected necessity of Wikipedia's BOLD, revert, discuss cycle. To initiate a discussion one needs to ask questions, especially "Why?" questions, to elicit an understanding of another editor's actions that are not obvious to you and ultimately achieve a concensus about how to present an article. Without doing this, the quality of Wikipedia article will not improve. This is why every article and every user page also has a talk page. - Cameron Dewe (talk) 21:51, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

Sources to improve article

The following sources can be used to improve this article. - Cameron Dewe (talk) 09:15, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

From the Portuguese article

See pt:Fernanda_Farias_de_Albuquerque#Referências for more sources

• "Conheça a história de Fernanda Farias de Albuquerque, travesti brasileira" [Discover the story of Fernanda Farias de Albuquerque, a Brazilian transvestite]. Diário da manhã [Morning diary] (in Brazilian Portuguese). 28 December 2017. Retrieved 2 January 2024. - This source article included details of the subject's birth name, place and some early childhood details, including her limited education. Also has some details about her initial experiences in Brazil as well as reasons for migrating to Europe. Additionally, there are some details on how the subject came to tell her story both in book form and how it came to be put on film. This article is a news feature, not a biography, and may require extensive rewording.
• Garcia, Nuno Gomes (11 January 2022). ""Princesa", de Fernanda Farias de Albuquerque | Uma obra pioneira da Literatura Transgénero" [“Princess”, by Fernanda Farias de Albuquerque | A Pioneering Work of Transgender Literature]. LusoJornal (in European Portuguese). Retrieved 2 January 2024. - This source article is basically a book review, but it includes a significant amount of biographical detail that can be used to fill in the gaps not covered by the article above. Includes year of birth, and some details of the crime she was accused of, to explain how she came to be in prison. This article also indicates her suicide took place in Brazil, which differs from the Italian and English versions, suggesting other sources might have been mis-interpreted or are inaccurate.

@Cameron Dewe: Thank you for providing me with some tips, I greatly appreciate it

• I have left out her birth name per MOS:DEADNAME (I don't believe she was ever notable under her birth name), but have hopefully included some more information about early life and childhood as well as her life experience. Added a bit more about the book and film.
• I have corrected the information on the crime she committed and the place of her suicide - both the source you gave and an English-language source I found say it was in Brazil, not Italy; this looks like an error in the Italian Wiki which I did not spot, apologies.

I hope this is an improvement - if there is anything else it looks like I'm missing out please let me know! And thank you so much for taking your time to give me this feedback, I appreciate it. – GnocchiFan (talk) 18:42, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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This review is transcluded from Talk:Fernanda Farias de Albuquerque/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Tamzin (talk · contribs) 21:35, 20 January 2024 (UTC)

Hi, GnocchiFan. Thanks for writing this article. It's a really interesting topic, and our coverage of trans/nonbinary/GNC people in the global south is, as I'm sure you know, quite lacking.

Sadly, I'm afraid I have to "quick-fail" this. That's a somewhat harsh term, and I want to be clear that I'm not saying this couldn't be a GA, or that you haven't done good work here. But I do find that this is a long way from meeting any one of the six good article criteria—specifically #3a, it addresses the main aspects of the topic. This article contains 621 words of prose. While there is no de jure length requirement at GA, an article being that short, for a person who lived during the age of mass media, strongly suggests that adequate breadth has not been achieved. Examples of major omissions include:

• When did she start identifying/presenting as feminine? Was it only when she became a sex worker, or after that?
• What are the circumstances of the attempted murder she was arrested for? Was she ever tried, ever convicted?
• It is mentioned retrospectively that she was addicted to drugs and alcohol while in São Paulo, but the first paragraph only mentions addiction once she arrived in Rome.
• By the third paragraph she is free. How did she get out of prison?
• If there's a whole documentary about her, that probably deserves more than two sentencces.
• When and why was she expelled from Italy? How long was she in Brazil before her death? Did she do anything of note there before dying? What were the circumstances of her death?
• Probably a small amount more could be said about the film Princesa, like who played her.

If the sources exist to answer these questions, then I think this could be fixed in one or two sessions of editing. If they do not, then perhaps this article is not destined to be a GA... and some articles simply are not. (It's too late this time around, but in a similar situation in the future, this would have definitely been eligible for WP:DYK.) Either way, again, thank you for submitting this article. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (they|xe) 21:35, 20 January 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.