Talk:Fels-Naptha

Naptha vs. Naphtha

Does the name come from Naphtha? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.159.74.84 (talk) 16:55, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Or feldspar? That's what I've sometimes suspected, although neither spelling is correct. Asat (talk) 02:01, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

"Health Considerations" section seems relatively pointless

Of the two items it contains, one seems to be there only to state that it is no longer a health consideration, but used to be ("Outdated Health Considerations" section?) the other is referencing an MSDS... although the statement is accurate, it would make more sense if the section was titled "Health Considerations for Manufacturers". Just for fun, the MSDS for water http://www.flinnsci.com/Documents/MSDS/WXYZ/Water.pdf , with such gems as:

SECTION 4 — FIRST AID MEASURES Call a physician and seek medical attention for further treatment, observation, and support after first aid.

and

SECTION 12 — ECOLOGICAL INFORMATION Data not yet available.

MSDS data generally exists for the purpose of Oh Christ, a 400 ton container of Fels-Naptha just exploded all over the highway, what do I need to know about it right now so I don't make this situation worse and not Oh here is some laundry soap in bar form that behaves like every other soap I've used in my entire life which is what normal people are thinking about when they look up health considerations.

I was tempted to delete the section and fold relevant bits into others, but then I realized I could type at least twice as much on the Talk page first and avoid any possible hurt feelings or confusion on the part of all of those millions upon millions of people who rely on this article about a specific brand of bar soap for all of their needs (oh god, should I eat it, what should I do with it? what if I have one from 70 years ago lying around, is THAT one safe to eat?).

SlipperyDongDumpster (talk) 09:11, 21 August 2014 (UTC)

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Trade Mark

There is a legal doctrine called the "Trade Mark exception" that allows a product which has long been known by a common name to have as a trademarked brand a term or phrase which implies the product contains substances or has qualities that it truly does not without this being considered to be a from of false advertising. Examples are "Coca-Cola", which has not contained cocaine in well over a century, "Chock Full o' Nuts" coffee, which has never actually contained nuts, and "Grape-Nuts" cereal, which contains no grapes nor nuts nor even any ingredients derived from them. Fels-Naptha Soap is now in the category of product, and this needs to be referenced in the article somehow, I believe. 72.106.155.46 (talk) 04:34, 29 June 2020 (UTC)

Discontinued

According to the manufacturer, Fels-Naptha has been discontinued. 2601:1C2:1B7F:E80:0:0:0:9854 (talk) 17:57, 16 November 2022 (UTC)

No it hasn't. https://summitbrands.com/product/fels-naptha --Guy Macon Alternate Account (talk) 00:05, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

Is Naphtha a Carcinogen?

Re: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Fels-Naptha&curid=2327130&diff=1198350281&oldid=1195001653

• "The chemical is classified as hazardous with the following risk phrases for human health in the Hazardous Substances Information System (HSIS) (Safe Work Australia):

Carcinogen. Cat. 2; R45 (May cause cancer)

Mutagen. Cat. 2; R46 (May cause heritable genetic damage"

Source: https://www.industrialchemicals.gov.au/sites/default/files/Naphtha_Human%20health%20tier%20II%20assessment.pdf

• "Forms of naphtha may be carcinogenic, and frequently products sold as naphtha contain some impurities, which may also have deleterious properties of their own. [2] [3] Like many hydrocarbon products, because they are products of a refractory process where a complex soup of chemicals is broken into another range of chemicals, which are then graded and isolated mainly by their specific gravity and volatility, there is a range of distinct chemicals included in each product. This makes rigorous comparisons and identification of specific carcinogens difficult" Source: https://www.chemeurope.com/en/encyclopedia/Naphtha.html
• "The safety data sheets (SDSs) from various naphtha vendors indicate various hazards such as flammable mixture of hydrocarbons: flammability, carcinogenicity, skin and airway irritation, etc." Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naphtha#Health_and_safety_considerations (supported by four citations) -Guy Macon Alternate Account (talk) 02:29, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

I can't find any evidence for the claim that it ever contained Naphtha

I was unable to find a source showing that Fels-Naptha (note the single "h") soap used to have Naphtha (note the two "h"s) in it, when it was removed, or why it was removed. This may be an urban myth. Can anyone find a source for those claims? If not, they should be removed per WP:V. -Guy Macon Alternate Account (talk) 02:29, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

(Sound of Crickets...) --Guy Macon Alternate Account (talk) 02:22, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

(...Chirp...) --Guy Macon Alternate Account (talk) 19:16, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

(...Chirp...) --Guy Macon Alternate Account (talk) 19:44, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

Whatever "naptha" means, it was claimed to be an ingredient of the soap:

• (1896) For all purifying and cleansing in Hospitals, there is nothing that can equal  FELS-NAPTHA SOAP  because of the naptha.^[1]
• (1901) If you wash with hot water, you may as well use mere soap; it distills Fels-naptha; drives off the naptha and wastes it.^[2]
• (1916) Fels-Naptha is more than soap. You know the value of naptha as a cleanser. Under skillful care naptha is blended with soap to form a perfect combination.^[3]

 --Lambiam 20:53, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

Wiktionary gives /ˈnæpθə/ with a plosive /p/ as an accepted pronunciation of naphtha. There are many book uses of "naptha" predating the soap and clearly meaning “naphtha”, e.g. [4], [5], [6].  --Lambiam 21:15, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

I agree that the spelling variation isn't important. Thanks for that. So, as evidence that Fels-Naptha once contained Naphtha we have some hundred-year-old primary advertising claims, as evidence that the Naphtha was removed we have a Wikipedia editor's original research based upon said sources and reading the the current (again a primary source) list of ingredients, and for the date of removal we have nothing. That would be enough to convince me, but does it meet Wikipedia's standards for being verifiable by an independent secondary source? --Guy Macon Alternate Account (talk) 01:13, 27 July 2024 (UTC)

In a number of case before courts in the UK, Fels & Co. submitted that the word Naptha, used by competitors to characterize their soap, was by itself not merely descriptive but had acquired the secondary meaning of Fels-Naptha soap. Quoting from one of the reports on these cases: "the expert evidence of analysts was adduced, which showed that only a small amount of naphtha, far less than in the Plaintiffs' soap, was contained in the Defendants' soap."^[7]  --Lambiam 12:47, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

Great! Good to have confirmation. Maybe someday someone will find something documenting when and why it was removed, but that info was most likely lost to time. All of the above clearly shows that Fels-Naptha soap once contained Naphtha and that the Fels-Naptha soap you buy today doesn't, so problem solved. BTW, I bought a couple of bars just out of curiousity. Nothing helpful on the label, but I really like the soap. Smells like any other unscented soap. --Guy Macon Alternate Account (talk) 19:06, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

Precisely because the manufacturer had built the reputation on the toouted claim that it was superior because it contained naptha, they may not have wanted to fanfare its removal (as in, "New! Improved! Now without naptha!"). Perhaps it was even stealthily phased out.  --Lambiam 20:02, 29 July 2024 (UTC)