Talk:Fall Out Boy/Archive 3

power pop

Fall out boy are power pop not alternative- me

Can you find reliable sources to back that up? Lara♥Love 19:11, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

I'd like to note for future reference, that Fall Out Boy in no way falls into the power pop genre. At all. Period. Lara♥Love 13:25, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Nominations

Ok, why did someone remove the nominations section. And some of the awards were removed too. PrincessOfHearts 15:02, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

I removed them because I'm trying to bring this article to GA and there is no reason to list nominations. Additionally, non notable awards are unnecessary. I didn't remove any awards. Lara♥Love 17:28, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

• I created the awards and nominations section. The Choice thingy is supposed to be labeled as teen choice awards. PrincessOfHearts 14:16, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

GA pass

This is a pretty easy pass. This is a very nice article, virtually every sentence is sourced, it's direct and to the point. After reviewing several other Musician-related GA articles, I feel confident that this article is up to par. The only criticism I can come up with is that in a few places the prose could be more elegant. There are some sections where sentences are somewhat choppy, and could perhaps use some better transitioning words from statement to statement, especially in the Early Years section. Nevertheless, very nice work. Bradford44 15:34, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for your review and suggestions. I'll work on the prose in the next few days. Lara♥Love 17:09, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Pete Wentz

Hey, you guys put 'Peter Wentz' instead of 'Pete Wentz' under the photo. Can you change that? Or is his name actually that? Nah, I don't think so. Cheers!

Pete is a nickname for Peter. That's not too hard to comprehend, is it? // DecaimientoPoético 20:59, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Peter is his birth name. Pete is what he goes by. Lara♥Love 02:53, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Early years

Surely there wrong. They didnt meet like it says, They were in the bad ARma Angelus, with Stump on the drums, Wentz Singing and Joe on guitar. Or so it says on the Arma Angelus wiki page. Shouldnt it mention they were all in a previous band together and when that split up they formed Fall Out Boy, Not that they all just met up one day and made a band straight off. ~~ —Preceding unsigned comment added by Moshkin (talk • contribs) 23:31, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

News on New Album

According to Andy Hurley, Fall Out Boy is currently looking at about 60 songs to put on their next album, to be recorded this year. <Andy Hurley, May 13, 2008 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Adoggman (talk • contribs) 23:36, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

This article needs to be updated to reflect the release date of the new album, Folie A Duex, November 4, 2008. Reuters Article Hmsneptune (talk) 20:55, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Major changes to article

Before making major changes to the article (ie. removing paragraphs of information, adding or renaming sections, etc.) make sure you understand Wikipedia policies. I'm restoring and correcting as much information as I can, but to prevent the necessity for such attention, read through some guidelines or ask before making changes.

Wikipedia is not a trivia book, work it into the body if it's relevant

• Fall Out Boy got their name from a fan who shouted to them "call yourself Fall Out Boy" and from that moment on they did (said by Pete Wentz in an interview)

[1]

• The Knights of Columbus Hall was the site of many early Fall Out Boy shows. Their video for "Dead on Arrival" was filmed there, which also served as a site for several "secret shows".

• The band was featured on Bad Scene, Everyone's Fault, a tribute album to the band Jawbreaker, covering "Save Your Generation". They also did a cover of "Roxanne" by The Police for the limited edition of Take This to Your Grave and for ¡Policia!: A Tribute to the Police.

• In 2005, the band's stability was threatened when Wentz overdosed on the sedative Ativan in a failed suicide attempt.

• Lead singer Patrick Stump was featured on two songs with Gym Class Heroes (also signed with Fueled By Ramen) including their Top 5 Single Cupid's Chokehold. He also was a guest vocalist on Motion City Soundtrack single Everything is Alright.

• They have also collaborated with producer Timbaland for his new album Timbaland Presents Shock Value. They are featured in Timbaland's song, "One & Only", on which Stump and Wentz both contributed in writing.

• The title of the song "7 Minutes in Heaven 'Atavan Haven'" from their album From Under the Cork Tree is based upon Wentz's attempted suicide.

• Fall Out Boy has toured with multiple bands, including Taking Back Sunday, Less Than Jake, Blink-182, Panic! at the Disco, Midtown, Hawthorne Heights, The All-American Rejects, Boys Night Out, The Academy Is..., The Hush Sound, October Fall, Alister, From First to Last, Cobra Starship and Shiny Toy Guns.

• The only non-rock act they have toured with is Paul Wall

Regards, LaraLove^T/_C 18:05, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

The song is called "7 Minutes in Heaven (Atavan Halen)" not "Haven" GerardXXXXway (talk) 23:28, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Ready for Good Article nomination?

No. But I would like for it to be. I spend hours reviewing articles, many of which on topics I know nothing about, and don't really care about, and I help promote some of those to GA status. It's occurred to me, why not just use my GA knowledge to promote an article on a topic I love to GA status? So that brings me here. Considering there are a few editors who regularly edit this article, I'd like to list all suggestions here for discussion.

To make things easier, I've successfully requested the the semi-protection be restored, so we won't have to worry about vandalism from IPs and new registers. Also, for consistency sake:

• please be sure all additions use one space between sentences as opposed to two, as that is the format this article utilizes.
• Any information added to the lead must be expanded upon in the body of the article.
• Be sure references are added along with new information, as applicable, using cite templates (see WP:CITE).

Images

• We need a good concert photo that has all of the boys in it to replace the current infobox image which has only three in view. The image can not be copyrighted in anyway... no rights reserved.
• I think this article would better benefit from the use of album covers placed in their respective sections and thumbnail images in the discography table. Similar to My Chemical Romance, for example.
• Screen shots from their videos would also be good. Not to say all these images would be used, but it would be nice to have a few to choose from.

  Fails fair use.

yea you really do.....you just can't have an article of them and NOT include Andy Hurley. Here.....go to this link:http://www.absolutepictures.com/falloutboy/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.29.114.27 (talk) 03:24, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Audio

If anyone has any experience in sample boxes, that would be a great addition for this article. "Dance, Dance" and "This Ain't a Scene, It's an Arms Race" are definite needs.

Expansion of information

• Expanding "2001-2002: The beginning" would be good.

• Very much agreed. I have tried to find more information because anything I add would be unsourced. Cnota 07:50, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

• Has FOB cited any bands as inspiration? This would be a good addition to the Musical style section.

  I did some research. Patrick Stump said in an interview, "I think this record is a little more eclectic than anything we've done before, but it's never without purpose," says frontman Patrick Stump. "We're into hip hop and R&B - you know, '70s funk. We're into metal - legit metal. There's a gazillion things going on as far as influences, and we just kind of let them out this time."[2]

  Influences: Blink 182, Midtown, New Found Glory and older Saves The Day, Green Day, The Descendents, The Who, Run DMC[3] —The preceding unsigned comment was added by LaraLove (talk • contribs) 16:26, August 20, 2007 (UTC).

Don't forget Pete's statement about The Get Up Kids. "Fall Out Boy songwriter/bassist Pete Wentz, said that "Without The Get Up Kids, there would be no Fall Out Boy." <- from the get up kids wikipedia page. Iii9ix3 23:52, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

• For balance, a criticism section, if applicable.

I'll go through the article in its entirety soon, but those are some initials issues. Regards, LaraLove^T/_C 17:59, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

The article has achieved GA, but it still can use improvements listed above. Lara♥Love 17:02, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Image

Logo 1 or Logo 2

Which should we use?

• I think the first one. It's the logo from their most recent album, also the logo atop their website and myspace page. LaraLove 04:29, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

• Clear cut IMHO. Logo 1 is the one that is currently in use by the band. Given the rationales of "fair use" to place a previous logo on Wikipedia is a stretch too far. A current Logo is really the only thing that can be legitimate "fair use" and as Lara says this is the one on their website. Until there are better guidelines from the foundation on all this free use stuff, the less the better, and certainly only what can be justified. Pedro |  Chat  14:06, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

• Personally, I'd say that the second should be moved to the Commons and used. See where theCopyright Office states that "variations of typographic ornamentation, lettering, or coloring" are not eligible for copyright. I'm not sure how this would apply to the first since it's an actual logo design (since the same letters are written differently). The second, however, just uses a font which cannot be copyrighted and should be tagged with {{PD-ineligible}}. 17Drew 00:49, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Template talk:Infobox Musical artist#Suggestions about Logos logo has been removed, see that. (LemonLemonLemons (talk) 09:12, 23 January 2008 (UTC))

Maximum Fall Out Boy

While browsing through Amazon.com, I found a CD called "Maximum Fall Out Boy". It said as it's review on the lines of, "A vocals-only CD that is a documentary of the group. It will have no songs." I've yet to find an article on this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.174.167.81 (talk) 23:26, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

There isn't an article. There isn't really much to it. Just sound clips from interviews which contain information which is already widely known. LaraLove 00:47, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

I like eggs and bacon is one of fall out boyd unreleased songs and was recorded when they were on a low and were unestablished —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.16.178.21 (talk) 17:13, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

You have any sources for that? Ha ha ha. Sauce with eggs and bacon. Mmm... Thundermaster367 13:47, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Print sources

I've taken the liberty of searching for a few print sources, which are always a plus to an article. Would someone undertake the challenge of incorporating them into the article? You could could source unsourced points, or add additional info about their music etc.

Fall Out Boy rocketed to emo/pop-punk stardom, going from a nameless band in 2000 to winning the MTV2 Award at MTV's Video Music Award in 2005 for their popular first single "Sugar, We're Going Down" from the album From Under the Cork Tree. Comprised of lead singer, bassist, and lyricist Peter Wentz, guitarists Patrick Stump and Joe Trohman, and drummer Andy Hurley, Fall Out Boy has combined success with a large dose of irreverence.

Wentz, Stump, Trohman, and Hurley performed as a nameless band until one night they asked the crowd they were performing for to give them a name. Stump told Joe Kominowski of DrivenFarOff.com that "it was kind of an accident." What they got was a reference to a character named Fallout Boy, which came from the popular animated series The Simpsons, and it subsequently became the name for their band.

In 2002 Fall Out Boy released a split album with Project Rocket on Uprising Records. This was followed a year later by Fall Out Boy's Evening Out with Your Girlfriend, an EP released by Uprising Records. It turned out to be an eventful year for the group, as they were signed to the Gainesville, Florida, label Fueled By Ramen. At the same time, the group signed a distribution deal with Island Records, which also included a right of first refusal for the band's follow-up record.

Take This To Your Grave was recorded in Madison, Wisconsin, at Smart Studios. Sean O'Keefe, who had produced pop-punk favorites like Motion City Soundtrack, engineered Fall Out Boy's major label debut. Take This To Your Grave was mostly written out of the anger and hurt that Wentz experienced when he discovered his girlfriend had cheated on him, but while the songs are dark, they are also humorous, revealing a balance between the maudlin and the comic.

Critics found much to like on the album. The group's performance at South by Southwest, a showcase of bands from around the country that takes place yearly in Austin, Texas, was also well received. Despite the critical attention, there were still some hurdles to overcome. Wentz explained to James Montgomery of VH1.com what it was like touring for Take This To Your Grave with the band Less Than Jake: "On the Less Than Jake tour, we were so green they had us open for a magician. It was really depressing. They were like 'OK, it's you guys, then the magician, then us.' It was insane."... From: "Fall Out Boy." Contemporary Musicians, Volume 57. Thomson Gale, 2005.

---

Nestled between hardcore and emo is softcore, and Fall Out Boy is one of the subgenre's best-kept secrets. That's about to change, though. With an infectious beat and an amusingly anthemic chorus, "Sugar, We're Goin Down"-the first single off the album "From Under the Cork Tree"-is one sticky melody. So it is not surprising that the video is already a big hit on MTV's "TRL" and the song is quickly climbing The Billboard Hot 100. Mixed by hitmaker Tom Lord-Alge (Blink-182, Weezer), "Sugar" is sure to be a taste of sweet success for the band.-KK From: Kroll, Katy. "FALL OUT BOY: Sugar, We're Goin Down." Billboard. 23 Jul 2005. Volume: 117; ISSN: 00062510 pg 40

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The theatrical and irreverent third-generation emo that they pioneered has become a certifiable subgenre, inspiring hit acts like their protégés Panic! At the Disco. But Infinity proves they're the masters of this peculiar art. The guiding force is bassist-lyricist Pete Wentz, responsible for "You're Crashing, but You're No Wave," "The Carpal Tunnel of Love," and other exuberantly pun-filled songs that both wallow in and lampoon emo angst. "A penny for your thoughts/But a dollar for your insides/And a fortune for your disaster/I'm just a painter...And I'm drawing a blank," Stump sings in the galloping power-pop blast "Don't You Know Who I Think I Am?" Like all Fall Out Boy lyrics, it's not quite as clever as Wentz seems to think, and his obsession with posers, lame "scenes," and, above all, his own band might annoy listeners not currently enrolled in high school. But Wentz's words have a pleasing vernacular spunkinessthis is the Esperanto of young American suburbia, poetry of the mall and the chat room. Who but Wentz would brag, "Every dotcom's refreshing for a journal update"?

Of course, it's the loud, jagged sound that really moves the kids. FOB's guitars still blare, and Stump has evolved into a superb frontman, with a voice that slides supplely from a bratty punk bark into a honeyed falsetto. But the pleasant surprise here is the band's new sense of swing: Several songs, including the hit "This Ain't a Scene, It's an Arms Race," dip winningly into R&B, a move aided by co-producer Babyface. Lo and behold, it turns out these pasty emo boys are a pretty great blue-eyed soul band. Infinity ain't exactly Thrillerbut Maroon 5 better watch their backs. Lifted from: Rosen, Jody. "Boy Wonders"." Entertainment Weekly. 09 Feb 2007. Page: 71; Section: THE REVIEWS: MUSIC

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...Enter Fall Out Boy, the Chicago four-piece who surprised everyone with a top 10 debut for their hummable From Under the Cork Tree. First single "Sugar, We're Goin' Down" just hit No. 1 on TRL, coinciding with a coheadlining stint on the Vans Warped Tour (through Aug. 15). Says singer-guitarist Patrick Stump, "[We've never] been about goals, so this is a bit bizarre."

Formed in 2001 from the remains of several Chi-town hardcore bands, the college dropouts exhibited their laissez-faire attitude when settling on a monikera character from The Simpsonsafter a fan shouted it out at a gig. "Maybe you shouldn't put that in there," says Stump. "If Matt Groening's reading anything, [it's] EW." But more than their name, the band is infamous for their never-ending song titles. So what's the writer of tunes like "I've Got a Dark Alley and a Bad Idea That Says You Should Shut Your Mouth (Summer Song)" have to say for himself? Responds bassist-lyricist Pete Wentz: "We write titles that fit the songs, whether it's one word or 87 words." Alert the Verbosity Police! We have another Fiona Apple on our hands.From: Raymond Fiore; Publication: Entertainment Weekly Issue: July 15, 2005 No. 829.

---

Pop-punk act Fall Out Boy has a knack for mixing polished hooks, hyperactive guitars and clever pop culture references. Here, the hilarious throwback title, a tribute to teen movie "Sixteen Candles" and Samantha Fox's 1986 make-out hit, is more exciting than the song itself. Calling all teenagers suffering from an unattainable crush, this emo-ish relationship drama does little to update the uptempo-breakdown-uptempo formula, but it certainly honors it. The quartet rips angsty, I'm-so-messed-up confessions into catchy riffs and a melodic chorus that soars despite its déjà vu feel. However, top 40 radio is a long shot this time; "A Little Less" is not as infectious as "Dance, Dance" and less anthemic than "Sugar, We're Goin' Down." But after two top 10 singles, a multiplatinum album and a Grammy Award nomination, these guys can afford a momentary break from mainstream success.-SPFALL OUT BOY: A Little Less "Sixteen Candles," A Little More "Touch Me" From: Philipp, Sven. Billboard Magazine. Volume: 118 Number: 11, ISSN: 00062510, Publication Date: 03-18-2006, Page: 60

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The band started, in 2002, as a fairly unremarkable example of emo--a descendant of punk rock in which political lyrics and noise have been exchanged for plaints about brokenhearted boys and their anonymous girlfriends--and evolved into a famous act that sings about the mechanics of celebrity. The group's second album, "Take This to Your Grave" (2003), appeared on an independent punk-rock label called Fueled by Ramen--the name refers to the marginal existences of touring bands--and the drummer, Andy Hurley, still claims to be a vegan anarchist. ("My whole thing is I'm not into civilization as a whole," he recently told Rolling Stone.) "From Under the Cork Tree" and "Infinity on High" were released by a major label, Island Records; the first song on "Infinity" is called "Thriller," after the biggest-selling album of all time. It begins with some cheerleading by the rapper Jay-Z, the C.E.O. of Def Jam, Island's sister label: "We dedicate this album to anybody people said couldn't make it. To the fans that held us down till everybody came around, welcome. It's here."

The album is deeply pleasurable, consisting of compressed, torqued-up rock songs that rarely detour into instrumental passages and return single-mindedly to choruses that range from the reasonably hummable to the eminently hummable. Like the band's other albums, "Infinity" is the product of an atypical division of labor, between the husky blond guitarist and singer Patrick Stump, who composes the rapidly shifting, unabashedly melodic music (he's a fan of soul, and warms up for shows by singing Nat King Cole's version of "Almost Like Being in Love"), and Wentz, whose clever lyrics rely on pop-culture references. ("A Little Less 'Sixteen Candles,' a Little More 'Touch Me' " is the name of a song from "Cork Tree.") Many people who have never heard Fall Out Boy know that Wentz has been romantically linked with starlets like Michelle Trachtenberg and Lindsay Lohan, and that last year nude pictures that Wentz took of himself with his Sidekick made their way onto the Internet. Wentz spends almost as much time online as the band's fans do. As he said in a recent interview, "I blog pretty hard."

Fall Out Boy retains some formal connections to punk--the generally rapid tempos and distorted guitars will be familiar to anyone who has heard Green Day or Blink-182--but, with a few tweaks, Stump's songs could work perfectly well as country or R. & B. numbers. His vocals are open-throated and powerful, a bit reminiscent of eighties New Wave singers like Howard Jones, though his belting style suggests that of a musical-theatre performer. Wentz's lyrics can be cynical and sour--"We're the new face of failure, prettier and younger but not any better off " is a line from "I'm Like a Lawyer with the Way I'm Always Trying to Get You Off (Me & You)"--but Stump sings them on bended knee, seemingly incapable of insincerity. Reviewers have compared the band to groups as varied as the Backstreet Boys and Kiss, which is a good indication of Fall Out Boy's omnivorous approach. Unlike the Backstreet Boys, Fall Out Boy's members write their own material, and, unlike Kiss, all four musicians are technically expert players. Like both bands, however, Fall Out Boy is determined to be as entertaining as possible. (The songs often sound like epic ballads by Journey.) Frere-Jones, Sasha. 'Fear Factor-- Infinity on High by Fall Out Boy'. The New Yorker, March 12, 2007 vol. 83 issue.3, p86 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Journalist (talk • contribs) 20:54, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Of course, i couldn't paste the articles in their entirety (copyvio), but if u need the rest, just tell me and I'll e-mail it, or something. Orane (talk) 02:04, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Fall out boy is pop-punk —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fob121692 (talk • contribs) 01:23, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

^ That's a true story. Lara❤Love 05:43, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

That was a lot of work to refute the lead singer's own statement, "My name is Patrick Stump from Fall Out Boy. We have nothing to do with being called Emo. If we grew up in Seattle in the '90s, we'd probably be called grunge, right?" With BLP it's better to be safe than to be libelous, so since they write and own the rights to the music, I would say their input may be an important factor in deciding their genre. There are certain liberties that we are all afforded, and one being the right to decide which genre we consider our own. the_undertow ^talk 05:58, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Oh no. I wasn't trying to push the emo point. Laura and I have come to a mutual understanding about that. I was just trying to provide a few print sources (I didn't even notice the emo points in the excerpts, and I don't think every one of them describe FOB as "emo"). And what you say is true: if they say the're not emo, then we can't tell them that they are. Orane (talk) 21:56, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Please use these pages to discuss the article and avoid turning this talk page into a a chat room. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 00:23, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

(EC)The debate over the status of the band is taken very seriously by the editors of the page and an arbitrary humor break, especially one that runs tangent to the content of the article is justifiable and has not compromised the integrity of the encyclopedia. By discussing our personal opinion of celebrity sexuality, and then DIRECTLY applying it towards a compromise/consensus as to the band's genre, by virtue of the band's own words, is applicable and productive. the_undertow ^talk 01:46, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

NO WAY JOSE —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.105.35.130 (talk) 01:29, 8 October 2007 (UTC) Yea guys. Stay focused and be serious. This is Wikipedia. We're not here to have fun. Lara❤Love 01:35, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, guys :). But it's not like it's a prolonged banter or anything... Orane (talk) 02:45, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

I added some emphasis to the genres listed in these print sources for the genre discussion. LaraLove|Talk 05:20, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

STOP

BTW, how did that stop sign with the hand make it on the talk page? If consensus is ever-changing, then it surely it is a prime example of WP:OWN. Imaging a new user coming to this page and seeing it. The impression is could give is negative, seeing as how debate is and should always be welcome. Telling users that a discussion is over and done with violates everything about consensus. the_undertow ^talk 03:07, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

I saw that banner on My Chemical Romance's talk page, copied it here and customized it. Since then, the frequency of emo posts has plummeted. I suppose I could just ignore anyone that posts about it. Considering I've had this discussion so many times I could burst, and considering the genre information is sourced in the article, it seems pointless to debate it constantly. So either way. If I'm violating something, remove it. But I'm done debating on whether or not Fall Out Boy is emo. Lara❤Love 03:14, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

I find this approach on the info box to be cool. the_undertow ^talk 03:19, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

But that encourages discussion, which is what I'm trying to avoid. ;) This convo could have happened much fast in IM, btw. Lara❤Love 05:21, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Original members

The original members of Fall Out boy (circa 2001) are as follows....

Patrick Stump - vocals Peter Wentz - vocals, bass guitar Joe Trohman - guitar, vocals TJ Racine - guitar, backing vocals Mike - drums

Jared Logan was the producer of the band's Demo, Split EP, and first album, not the lead guitarist, though he has played drums when recording the band's first album and has also worked with bands like 7 Angels 7 Plagues. TJ Racine actually played guitar for the band, while a member simply credited as "Mike" played the drums. Jared Logan is not an original member of Fall Out Boy, but TJ Racine and Mike are the two original members of the band who left before Andy became the band's permanent drummer. Therefore the "Early Years" section of the page needs to be changed accordingly.

Souce(s): http://www.music.com/release/fall_out_boys_evening_out_with_your_girl/1/ http://www.cduniverse.com/search/xx/music/pid/6855041/a/Evening+Out+With+Your+Girlfriend.htm —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mjohnsonphd (talk • contribs) 20:24, 8 October 2007 (UTC) fall out boy biggest fan is sonya chistov she also loves woman —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.192.3.228 (talk) 22:40, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

_______________________________

Obviously the article has been vandalized and replaced with, "FOB sucks." I would edit the article if I were allowed, but it's locked, and I don't have any copies from the previous entry. Hopefully someone gets on this quickly... Dontworry behappy 01:34, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Ok...

So one aparently hates Fall Out Boy because they messed up the first paragraph. Some one needs to PLEASE fix this mess.

Yours truly, FOB #1 fangirl —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.71.168.102 (talk) 02:54, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

______________

Why were all references to the Rolling Stone features on this band deleted? They were some of the most informative stories and we're losing important info without them. Someone should restore them!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.225.227.233 (talk) 01:10, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Joe trohman is lead guitar and patrick is rhythm —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.184.39.205 (talk) 14:30, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

You also forgot about Brandon Hamm playing guitar in the early years. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.199.201.184 (talk) 08:00, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Happy tree friends

There have been more videos with them. It should be mentioned.YVNP (talk) 19:23, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Please state some of the songs, because the only one I am aware of with the Happy Tree Friends in it is the video for "The Carpal Tunnel of Love", which is done completely in the Happy Tree Friends universe. - J-Whitt (talk) 09:23, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

fifth?

is their next album their fifth? the wikipedia article states that take this to your grave was their debut and is also in the category of debut albums, and anyway the evening out album is a mini LP which is another way of saying EP right? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Thrice34 (talk • contribs) 12:09, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

Lineup

I noticed that they keep erasing the lineup (current and former members) everytime I add it on. The spanish version of the article has it, why not english. Also, the infobox doesn't show former members even though that part is filled out, I guess I'll try to fix it. --Thebluesharpdude (talk) 05:32, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

• Fixed. —Hello, Control ^{Hello, Tony} 10:13, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

>== "Rap rock" ==

I was reading a RECENT interview with Patrick and it did say that it is going to be rap-rock, but by this I figure they mean A Metora (LP)kind of thing, also the "folk" idea was a misinterpreted rumor pat said they were going to have an acoustic song and the whole world think it is folk!I read this off an MTV article!

Warning Message

Hi, I read Wikipedia from time to time and just now when I went on the site I had a warning messahge saying I had edited the page. When I don't even have an account, I've just there created this one to report this. I don't even listen to this band, nor heard any of there songs.

I would like to know what was edited on the page that I did not do and why I got the warning message. Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by On a Pale Horse (talk • contribs) 20:23, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

WTF

Am I bloody misreading this? Did the genre section actually say "shit house"... yeah that is vandalism, I'm changing it back.13Tawaazun14 (talk) 02:37, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

And there were two other parts as well.13Tawaazun14 (talk) 02:39, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

No, make that three.13Tawaazun14 (talk) 02:43, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

ARG, FOUR!!!13Tawaazun14 (talk) 02:45, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

...Five...13Tawaazun14 (talk) 02:48, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Alright! Looks like it's back to normal...SWEEEEET:-)!!!13Tawaazun14 (talk) 02:37, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

According to the RIAA...

From Under The Cork Tree is only 2x Multi-Platinum, not 3x. Someone change that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.95.138.199 (talk) 20:35, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

plagiarism

Fall Out Boy stole lyrics from Wes Eisold, more specifically from American Nightmare (Give Up the Ghost). After and out of court settlement Eisold was added to the credits of the lyrics, however, he did not help fall out boy write the lyrics to any part of any song. Rather they were stolen. Someone should add this to the page. thanks reference: http://www.punknews.org/link/22623 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Give_Up_the_Ghost http://www.shoutmouth.com/index.php/news/6530 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mattmatumbo (talk • contribs) 03:37, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Shorten the genre thing

It should simply just say "Emo" 69.125.201.213 (talk) 01:47, 25 May 2008 (UTC) no it shouldnt, they're not emo. they're nothing like it, listen to the get up kids, they're emo, these are just pop punk with sad lyrics and whiney vocals —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.118.135.175 (talk) 18:30, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

get up kids is indie pop associated with the indie emo/post-emo scene. Fall out boy has some influence from them, but their sound is punk pop. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.169.189.82 (talk) 22:25, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

The Great Genre Debate revisited

Okay, so here's the thing, what the hell are they?! Some sources claim emo, but it's no secret that emo is tagged on any band with black hair and a penchant for wearing eyeliner. Some say alternative rock, but they're too mainstream to be alternative. And what alternative was 10 years ago is not what alternative is today. So we have to keep in mind that genres evolve and be sure we're speaking of the current definition of each genre whilst determining this. So then there's the claim of pop-punk or punk-pop. I think this one is the closest and it's what they now claim as the sole genre on their MySpace page. We've also got pop rock, which I've listed in the infobox for the time being as that seemed the least controversial. And then punk rock.

So basically, weigh in here with your thoughts and sources, and let's hash out, once again with hopefully updated sources, what they are. This should be fun... :p LaraLove|Talk 00:03, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

I don't think this is how wikipedia works.13Tawaazun14 (talk) 01:35, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

WP:CONSENSUS. Enjoy. LaraLove|Talk 02:34, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

No, I've read that already. I think I misread your post as wanting opinion over source but I've reread your post and mess is gone now.13Tawaazun14 (talk) 18:21, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Okay here's what I think, personally I'd say their a pop-rock band. I'd never call them emo or alternative. But regardless of what I think, it's probably best to go with what the group claims as their genre on their MySpace music page and leave it at that. Punk-pop it is. Caden S (talk) 03:31, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

(UTC)

Yeah, I know what reliable sources are. I've read up on that. I agree with the three sources you have provided here. Alright then, in the infobox we should mention both punk-pop and emo. Even though I don't agree with calling them emo, can't argue when it comes to reliable sources stating emo. Caden S (talk) 05:07, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Actually, you can. As I pointed out on Wikiscribes talk page, there's referenced information on this in the emo article about how the use of the term "emo" has expanded beyond the musical genre. It has become associated with aspects outside of the music, including fashion styles and showing of strong emotion. Template:Infobox musical artist. Emo has been tagged on this band for reasons other than their sound, but we're commenting on the music, not their fashion, when we include genres. LaraLove|Talk 05:30, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Bottom line is the band's sound is pop-rock and not emo. But let's just stick to pop-rock or punk-pop for the infobox. Labeling them as emo for reasons other than their actual sound in the infobox is wrong. We have enough sources with the pop-rock or punk-pop thing so we should stick to this. Caden S (talk) 06:11, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

For these sort of matters, the band is more certainly a reliable source. They own the rights to the music, they know what genre they're playing into. Not to mention their sound fits the genre. That said, I've started looking for some updated 2008 sources to use in comparison with those from previous years listed above. Here's what I've found:

Pop rock

1. (2008-06-03). "Fall Out Boy talk about their new album". NME. LaraLove|Talk 05:03, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

   The American pop-rockers are keen to get back in the studio though. LaraLove|Talk 05:03, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Emo

1. Florino, Rick (2008-04-07). Live in Phoenix Review. Artistdirect.

   It's quite the generous editorial, reading The emo heroes turned arena rock gods have far transcended all expectations, crafting witty, sharp and infectious pop anthems that will stand the test of the fickle, digital Zeitgeist. So we have a couple other genres mentioned in there as well, and it refers to them previously having been emo. I don't think they can be considered arena rock either, so this source seems a little shaky. LaraLove|Talk 05:03, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

2. Reuters/Billboard (2008-04-28). "Billboard single reviews: Fall Out Boy, Alanis". Reuters UK.

   Pete Wentz and company appeared to betray a crush on Michael Jackson when last year's post-emo blockbuster "Infinity on High"... LaraLove|Talk 05:03, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Emo-punk

1. Rathbun, Andy (2008-06-30). Liner Notes: Alkaline Trio review. Heraldnet.com.

   Chicago's second biggest emo-punk band -- after Fall Out Boy... LaraLove|Talk 05:03, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

The band are not a reliable source, they are'nt second or third party which is what wikipedia is based upon. Emo-punk redirects to emo so they should be considered the same. --neon white talk 05:27, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

There's a plethora of sources citing various genres. Please consider commenting on more than one. And, once again, the band's comments should be taken into consideration on matters directly relating to the music they own the rights to. Certainly, as the creators of the music, they have some insight into what genre they play for. LaraLove|Talk 05:33, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

They may own the rights to there own music i would not argue with you about that but they do not own the right to how there music is is labeled by the media that is out of there control because if they did than they would be able to sue anybody who calls there music a label they did not like and if that was true courtney love would be sueing everybody for calling nirvana grunge being kurt cobain rejected the label and hated it--Wikiscribe (talk) 05:38, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Actually record labels generally own the rights but that's utterly irrelevant to the discussion. Music genres are created and defined by music journalists and the music media not by artists or individuals and individual artists do not define their own genres. Their opinion has no relevance here. Imagine if we wrote every article based on the subject's personal views of themselves! --neon white talk 05:44, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

I'm saying take it into consideration. They label themselves punk-pop and the Fueled by Ramen label is a punk rock label. It's something to take into consideration. As is the fact that their music does not fall into the emo genre and we have sourced information that details how emo is being placed on bands not for their music but for their fashion style, showing of emotion, etc. For the purposes of this article, it needs to focus on musical genre and nothing more. Certainly all can be explained and sourced in the body. That surely is necessary. I am in no way suggesting that emo should be cut out of the article. Certainly not. But it all needs to be explained. For the infobox, however, there is no appropriate place for emo. It is disputed, it is not reflected in their music and the template itself calls for generalization, something that is, unfortunately, ignored widespread across this project. LaraLove|Talk 06:22, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Genre discussions, much like the pervasive nationality discussions on biographies (see Wikipedia:Lamest edit wars#Ethnic_feuds), occur because people insist on summing up a complex description of a person or band's background or style with a few single words, taken completely out of context. Frequently, reliable sources disagree - and standing policy is that when reliable sources disagree, the disagreement ought to be documented. I believe strongly that the best way to deal with this dispute and all other similar genre disputes is to simply remove the genre from the infobox, where it lacks context, and talk about genre exclusively in the prose. For this reason, I've removed genre from the infobox, leaving the "musical style" section (which enjoys consensus) to describe their style. Dcoetzee 06:17, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not censored so this doesnt work at all. If there is a prevailant POV then it is correct include it in a summary. --neon white talk 03:34, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Sources

I found this fascinating little dispute through my wanderings on the wiki, and thought I could be of some use. I present myself as a completely impartial party who doesn't even know what Fall Out Boy is. Well, my niece keeps raving about them to me, but I just force her to get back into the cupboard under the stairs.

Rather than damage the integrity of the article by removing the genre from the infobox in a creative, well-intentioned but misguided effort to ward off edit warriors, I'm going to place a little faith in our decision-making model and provide some sources for consideration:

• My So-Called Punk: Green Day, Fall Out Boy, The Distillers, Bad Religion - How Neo-Punk Stage-Dived into the Mainstream by Matt Diehl, ISBN 0312337817

  "Fireside was the place where one could see national touring acts before they got big, as well as the incubation of... future pop punk stars Fall Out Boy."

• "'Infinity': Boundless Self-Praise and Great Pop-Punk" by Allison Stewart, The Washington Post

  "But Fall Out Boy was built for the disc's numerous, now-familiar pop-punk tracks, which are almost uniformly great."

• "Fall Out Boy bringing cheeky brand of pop-punk to Jakarta" by Paul F. Agusta, The Jakarta Post

  "This pop-punk outfit considered by critics to be one of the best bands of the genre..."

• "Best of show" by Jim DeRogatis, The Chicago Sun-Times

  "Somehow, Chicago's chart-topping pop-punk heroes pulled it off, delivering a rousing set to celebrate the release of their fourth and best album, "From Infinity on High."

  "Detroit's reunited punk progenitors most likely claimed bragging rights to the greatest Lolla gig ever..."

• "Finding Emo" by Jay Rath, Wisconsin State Journal

  "...acts such as Fall Out Boy, Dashboard Confessional and My Chemical Romance all became known as emo, even though one could argue that there were differences in their music."

• "Fall Out Boy Tones it Down" by Shay Quillen, San Jose Mercury News

  "The band offered a little Punk Rock 101 for the youngsters..."

• "Four-group concert is 'fantabulous'" by Amber Gillmore, The Oklahoman

  "This "power pop" group mixes ska and punk music styles and lyrics full of metaphor and pun to create the ultimate bomb-diggity feed."

• "Just in time for Halloween, Ramones declare: 'It's Alive'" by Louis R. Carlozo, Chicago Tribune

  "Before punk rock was... groomed and tuned by the likes of Green Day and Fall Out Boy..."

• "Motion City revs up" by Mike Daniel, The Dallas Morning News

  "Nor are Motion City Soundtrack's five players anywhere near as individualistic as the guys that pace today's youth-favored pop rock movement: Fall Out Boy."

• "Rihanna rises above Brit's sad comeback" by Jim DeRogatis, Chicago Sun-Times

  "But as a result, we saw only flashes of performances that deserved to be aired in total, including... Chicago's platinum pop-punks Fall Out Boy destroying their gear in classic Who fashion."

• "Review: Fall Out Boy", The Salt Lake Tribune

  "The band moved beyond basic pop-punk on the album to incorporate some soul, R&B and hip-hop influences."

• "Fall Out Boy Makeup Rewards Fans Who Waited" by Deborah Hirsch, The Charlotte Observer

  "They know how to put together a catchy pop-punk melody."

• "Wentz, Fall Out Boy shine, but take no chances" by Greg Kot, The Chicago Tribune

  "It was a long way from the dingy all-ages shows where Wentz and Fall Out Boy first made their name on the Chicago punk circuit six years ago."

  "Without the glitz factor, which he has been adroit enough to exploit, Fall Out Boy would be just another decent pop-punk band."

• "Q&A / Pete Wentz, Fall Out Boy: 'I've got a big mouth. . . . It gets me into trouble'" by Nick Marino, The Atlanta Journal-Constituion

  "Wentz's band... is simultaneously self-deprecating and self-aggrandizing, equally aware of punk rock nonchalance and stadium rock grandeur."

• "Band of 'nerds' prefers a literary approach" by Marian Liu, San Jose Mercury News

  "Pop-punk band Fall Out Boy is a favorite among the high school set -- they're Green Day with a metal bite, but still digestible for the kids."

It looks to me that the consensus decision of various newspapers of record is "pop-punk", but I'll leave the final decision up to the rest of you (this post's just a hit and run). Hope this helps! east.718 at 06:37, July 4, 2008

Thanks for all the info! There is a consistency issue here, in that most other band articles list genres, but I don't believe an integrity issue. Even among the reliable sources listed here, there is considerable variation, including "pop punk", "punk", "punk rock", "power pop", and so on. Also, many of these are journalists who simply copy each other; it's better to focus on sources by music critics, musicians, and others who get music - but even these sources routinely disagree on FOB's genre. My changes are not intended to avoid an edit war, but rather to avoid oversimplifying a unique style which deserves more explanation than a few words that don't quite fit. Dcoetzee 06:52, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

That kind defies the whole point of an article summary which articles are required to have by guidelines. We cant decide an article cant be summarized. --neon white talk 03:39, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

What does this have to do with the lead? LaraLove|Talk 04:29, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

I don't think we should make assumptions on who has copied who. The same can be said of any of the genres, including emo. The point is that we use reliable sources and factor in the various concerns. These are fantastic sources for the musical style section. This will be great help in attempting to reach FA. Just need to get dates and page numbers. LaraLove|Talk 06:56, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Well, I do share your dislike of traditional music journalists (see user:east718/PE for an example of what standards I do prefer), but it is all we will have to make do with here. With old school hip-hop just beginning to permeate the field of scholarly analysis, it's unlikely that an act as recent as FOB will have anything besides traditional media examining it. If it provides you any solace though, most of the people I referenced are noted music critics, such as Jim DeRogatis, Greg Kot, Nick Marino and Jay Rath. (As an aside, the conflict strikes me as exceedingly petty, and I don't see why all tangential genres can't be included.) east.718 at 07:06, July 4, 2008

Okay these are good sources and since we use reliable sources, it's obvious that pop punk is the correct genre to use. But I think we could include a few others too in there. Caden S (talk) 14:44, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Agree. This is usually the way it's done. The rolling stone bio is the best source available. A magazine with the history and reputation of rolling stone has a big say. There is no reason whatsoever to censor emo on the basis of personal objections from 'fan editors'. We need to remember this is an encyclopedia not a fan page. It's purpose is to represent verifiable facts whether you disagree with it or not. --neon white talk 03:39, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

First of all, comment on the content, not the editors. I'm not even a FOB fan anymore. I like about three of their songs. I'm into much heavier music than this. That said, going from sources, definitions of genres and the sound of this band, they're not emo, at least not by music. We have sources claiming emo, fantastic. There's also a source in that list of emo artists that claims Weezer to be emo, which is just utterly ridiculous. All is fine to be explained and included in the article, but putting emo is the infobox is not appropriate, considering they're tagged emo for their look and not their sound. Pop rock, punk rock, punk-pop; those all work. This explains the issue. If emo is taking on such a broad definition that it ends up picking up Weezer, we certainly are in no position to start tagging emo in every band's infobox that's got sources to back it. The template says to be general. There's no clear definition of what emo even is at this point, and there's no reason to include it in the infobox when it takes so much text to qualify it. LaraLove|Talk 04:25, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

I am not commenting on any specific editors. Please remember to assume good faith. Wikipedia is based on what verifiable sources (Rolling Stone, Rhapsody, Village Voice, DiS and MSN music so far). Basing a view on the fact you dont think they sound emo is original research. From the amount of sources and the quality of them this is clearly a significant POV which NPOV policy requires us to represent. Weezer have long been considered a extremely important emo band who were the forerunners of bringing emo to the mainstream with Pinkerton, you can read about it here [4] and [5]. Regardless this is an insignificant point as we do not get to decide that sources are wrong or that they are basing their views wrongly. The only signigicant point is that these are all considered reliable and trustworthy sources (especially Rolling Stone which probably invented most genres). "we certainly are in no position to start tagging emo in every band's infobox that's got sources to back it" unfortunately as editors it is required that we do so as wikipedia is based on the very principle of verifiabile sources. The emo article describes the genre we don't need to be concerned with that. It's sourced, it's encyclopedic, it's informative and there are no valid reason not to include it. --neon white talk 04:59, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Okay, first of all, stop throwing policy at me. Telling someone to assume good faith only serves to inflame situations, particularly when you're the one on the wrong side of it. Now, I don't know if you're intentionally ignoring my arguments or if there is some other issue here, but I'll go over them again. The infobox shouldn't include genres that take text to qualify them. I've got a source that explains how emo is being tagged on bands that aren't emo and a plethora of reliable sources that don't state emo. So that refutes your simple argument of "I've got sources." I've got sources, too. So, if you can present some sort of valid argument, I'm open to being swayed. It's happened before. But this article is going to hit FAC in the next couple of months or so, and this process starts with the genre dispute. The quicker this gets ironed out, the better, but it's going to take a while is some actual arguments aren't presented soon. Show me a source that explains how they are emo, rather than just tagging them with it. That would be most helpful. I haven't heard their new album, so perhaps it's emo... though I'm told it's not by some fans. Either way, present something, because so far all I've seen is you calling me a biased fan ignorant of policy and that you've got sources. Flawed arguments carry little weight. LaraLove|Talk 14:50, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

I've refuted every argument you have made based on the fact that none comply with policy. The infobox does not need anything other than the genre. This is a poinless new arguement. Wikipedia is not based on what reliable sourece don't say, that would be silly. The only argument i need is that verfiable sources back up this genre, that is the only argument possible because that is how wikipedia works, it is up to you to explain why you feel this article should go against established policy, not for me to explain why it shouldn't. That point should be obvious. --neon white talk 01:41, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Look, let's go with pop-rock and punk-pop for the infobox but leave out emo. I agree with Lara on this. It doesn't belong here. Caden S (talk) 14:32, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

The band is not a third party source ,reliable sources cant be what the band thinks or what our opinion is good articles are based on reliable sources in this case it would be music media sites and i have 3 reliable sources from these sort of sites that label them as emo as well as pop punk here is one from rhapsody make sure you click the more portal under the band photo and see clearly states genre as emo [6] here is a article from rolling stone [7] and here is another article from billboard calling them emo as well [8] everything i have come across site them as punk pop and emo so i dont think it would be over the top to site them in the info box as emo and pop punk--Wikiscribe (talk) 04:02, 4 July 2008 Here are more sources labeling them as emo here is an article from the new york times [9] here is an article from spin magazine [10] and here is another from usa today [11] as i said before there are enough relaible sources here for them to have the label of pop punk and emo unless somebody can prove that the sources i sited are not reliable(in other words from shady sites) this is no more than a pov push/fillibuster--Wikiscribe (talk) 17:27, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Here is another article citeing them as emo from National Public Radio [12]--Wikiscribe (talk) 18:19, 4 July 2008 (UTC) once again here are more than enough reliable sources to cite them as emo it does not matter there is no clear consenus either way this is just a fillibuster because lara and canden think they are not please adhere to wiki policy please its about reliable sources--Wikiscribe (talk) 16:33, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

This reminds me of why I stopped editing this article to begin with. My argument is being completely ignored. You haven't shown one source that explains why they're labeled emo. But whatever. Music media has taken to labeling every band with any variation of long titles, black hair, eyeliner, hoodies, emotional lyrics, or ... I don't know what about Weezer is considered emo, but whatever trait they have, as emo. Nothing in policy says that every genre they possibly fall into has to be listed in the infobox. But considering I'm running in circles with the same arguments, and I've got much better things to do, I'm out. I'll work on another article for FA. LaraLove|Talk 19:00, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

I've posted multiple sources above and so have other editors. Here is a compendium of sources that refer to the band as emo:-

• Rolling Stone[13]
• MSN Music [14]
• Village Voice [15]
• Drowned in Sound [16]
• National Public Radio [17]
• New York Times [18]
• Billboard [19]
• Rhapsody [20]
• USA Today [21]
• Spin Magazine [22]
• NME [23][24]
• MTV [25][26]
• BBC [27]
• Digital Spy [28]
• The Guardian [29]
• Virgin Media [30]
• Entertainment Weekly [31]
• Harp [32]
• Southern Voice [http://www.southernvoice.com/2008/7-4/view/ontherecord/8831.cfm
• The Herald, Everett WA [http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20080630/ENT/408200743
• The Gazette, Montreal [33]

To be honest i'm not sure there could be any more reliable sources!

--neon white talk 01:41, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Fortunately for us, Wikipedia works based on verifiability, not "truth". If there are reliable sources that document that Fall Out Boy is of a certain genre, it is appropriate to document that. If there are other reliable sources that disagree, it is appropriate to document that, too. Antelan^talk 19:31, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Thats why i have no problem with them being pop punk genre as well because soucess state that as well,and some people claim they are alternative rock though i disagree and do not think they are alternative rock but if somebody can finds legit sources that classify them as that than i have nothing to say by all means add alternative rock--Wikiscribe (talk) 19:45, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Sounds completely reasonable. I have never edited this article before, but wanted to pop in and give my $0.02. Regards, Antelan^talk 19:48, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

The important thing to keep in mind here is that omitting a particular genre from the infobox is not an explicit statement that Fall Out Boy does not fall into that genre; instead, it says that there is not widespread consensus (in the real world) about the band falling into that genre and that this disagreement is discussed in the article, because there isn't room to do it in the box. Would everyone be happy if a line were added to the box saying "Others (see Musical style section)" or something to that effect? Neon white's arguments that omitting a genre from the box is either "censorship" or a violation of WP:LEAD have no basis in any credible interpretation of policy. Dcoetzee 21:58, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

That kinda thing was rejected in other articles as confusing. We have no evidence of a significant dispute so its an issue anyway. --neon white talk 01:41, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Neon white, your insertion of a comment just above my first comment on this page puts my statement out of context, making it difficult to understand. Would you mind moving your new addition lower down so it doesn't disrupt the flow? Thanks, Antelan^talk 01:54, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you mean but i apologize and feel free to fix it as you see fit. --neon white talk 23:17, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

There is overwhelming evidence of a dispute - a variety of major sources that refer to the band using one genre, and a variety of other major sources that refer to the band using another. Just because they don't explicitly point out that other sources in error doesn't mean they're not obviously in disagreement. Where reliable sources disagree, we must document the dispute and attribute each view to particular sources, not argue about which is "right," which we are not qualified to determine. Dcoetzee 04:07, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

There has been no reliable sources documenting any kind of dispute or disagreement, significant or otherwise, provided here. If you have such evidence present it. Sources referring to the band as a single genre are not evidence of a dispute. "Just because they don't explicitly point out that other sources in error doesn't mean they're not obviously in disagreement." If a source doesnt point something out then it's not a source that is of any use as it doesn't cite anything. You can't prove a negative and we don't try on wikipedia. We assert positives based on verifiable sources. We cannot state that something isn't true based on the lack of a source. Regardless the infobox is used as a useful summary of certain attributes of the one. What genres they are not considered to be is neither of any great use nor an included part of the infobox. It would be as pointless as having a list of non-members. --neon white talk 23:17, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

You misunderstand me completely. The point is that some sources say their genre is one thing, other sources say something else. Since they can't be both, the sources are in contradiction. When sources contradict each other, that doesn't mean both are true (that's impossible), it means that the sources are in disagreement about the truth. I'm just saying it would be more useful to describe that disagreement at length in prose than to give a misleading and out-of-context summary. Dcoetzee 23:35, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Sources in infobox?

Okay, here's my new suggestion for a resolution to the genre issue. This is already in active use in articles with similar articles like Jimmy Eat World. Simply list the genres that have strong enough support from reliable sources, and then cite several major sources after each one. This makes it clear who holds what opinion, even if it is in the footnotes. Agreed? Dcoetzee 23:40, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

i agree i think puting like 2 sources for each genre in the infobox would be good, also me myself never had an issue with puting pop punk as there genre also because there are sources to cite them as that as well--Wikiscribe (talk) 12:55, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure you're not allowed to hide genres...just say Pop Punk/Various subgenres. Titan50 (talk) 17:29, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

The reference for their genre being "Emo"

I don't believe that a Rhapsody profile qualifies as a reference that they are emo. The band itself does not make the Rhapsody profile, but the site does, and I don't think someone else's categorization qualifies that they are emo. I'm leaving it be, but I want to see a reason why it should stay. - J-Whitt (talk) 04:44, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

you are kidding me right did you not check above and see the 25 other sources citeing them as emo,and the reason you just gave for rhapsody not being a valid source is in fact the reason they are a great source rhapsody is a third party source the band its self in reality is a bad source being they can be biased very easily --Wikiscribe (talk) 04:49, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Believe, I have checked those sources time and time again. The majority of all sources claiming Fall Out Boy to be "Emo" are biased themselves. They use lyrical content as the only decisive factor in determining whether or not they are, which is wrong. A genre is based upon lyrical content and musical composition, and while their lyrics may be "emotional", it is not the basis for their genre being Emo. Real Emo music is called Emocore, or Emotive hardcore, which is much more related to Hardcore punk than anything else. - J-Whitt (talk) 05:24, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

your doing the same thing other editors were doing, you are argueing a moot point please read the following policy verifiability, the first sentence will put your arguement to rest--Wikiscribe (talk) 05:39, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Still, the printed/typed materials stating that Fall Out Boy is emo are all being biased based upon appearance and lyrical content, and pretty much leaving out the obvious checking of musical composition. While you could use that policy to your advantage, I can also. See this, it clearly says a questionable source is one relying heavily on rumors and personal opinions and also a questionable source is one heavily promotional in nature. I'm pretty sure Rhapsody sets the genres as others see them, and not by actual studying the music. Do they really have the time to check a few songs from every artist frequently, or even at least once, to set their genres accordingly? Also, this site is all about trying to sell its music service, so it also falls under heavily promotional in nature. - J-Whitt (talk) 13:03, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

if you dont like the source just remove it and add a source from the 20 plus more reliable sources above like usa today or the new york times that was added to the discussion by another editor instead of this useless trolling--Wikiscribe (talk) 13:56, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

I honestly see no reason to, I guess it will be left put. And calling my constructive criticism "trolling"? That's just a personal attack, and for one who seems to like to cite Wikipedia's policies, see this. - J-Whitt (talk) 14:27, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Whilst you should not be accused of 'trolling' you points are poor and based only on your personal opinion which has no bearing here. If you would care to read WP:V you will see that wikipedia is based on second and third party sources with a an editorial policy and fact checking. --neon white talk 15:16, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I've read this. I guess I'll just give up on this, seeing as the millions of sources on the internet that I disagree with are just going to keep coming up. I just think its a shame that Emo is being paraded about as this light-hearted genre, but maybe in the coming years that will change. - J-Whitt (talk) 15:55, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

I agree with JWhitt, most people think of Rolling Stone, or USA today when they think of emo, but these sources (All 20+ of them) are relatively biased based on what others view as emo. Emo is a genre of music that is more based on musical composition, and really has nothing to do with "Emotional Lyrics". There are many Emo songs that have no lyrics at all. If you compare Fall Out Boy to Sunny Day Real Estate(which is the "personified emo sound"), it sounds different. Most bands categorized as "emo" really aren't. Just cause some person didn't do their homework before writing a major article shouldn't destroy a legit music genre. This is a fight that really can't be won unless these sources put out new "articles" reflecting on the term "emo" as it should.--Samushi101 (talk) 06:29, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

Underneath former members...

It says that T.J. "Raccine" Kunoch and Mike Pareskuwicz were former members. I know that in the first album, Fall Out Boy's Evening Out with Your Girlfriend, there were two guys credited with playing guitar and drums, named T.J. "Raccine" and Mike, respectively. I also know that their last names were never known, as they weren't printed in the credits of the album. If they were known, I would at least like to see a source for where they were revealed. As for now, I will be removing their last names but leaving their "known" names. - J-Whitt (talk) 14:38, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Scratch that, I'll leave them for now, but I do want to see sources. - J-Whitt (talk) 14:41, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Former Member Questions Answered

Hi there, a friend emailed this to me. Re: your confusion about former members:

Mike Paruszkiewicz is the name of the original drummer of Fall Out Boy. He played on the first full length, and was credited just as "Mike" because Pete [and everyone else] only knew his unusual last name phonetically. He left the band before the next record to travel and finish college, and was later in the Chicago band The Ransoms. He now lives in the Pacific Northwest and does conservation work. As for 'T.J. Racine': 'Racine' wasn't his last name either. None of the members really knew him very well, including his last name. He was, however, from Racine, Wisconsin. He was confronted by two of the band's roadies after a live radio performance in Chicago regarding a personal dispute, left town and left the band, never speaking with them again.

Hope this helps.

Fall Out Boy Is Gay! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.101.8.219 (talk) 09:35, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:JWhitt433" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.2.8.135 (talk) 00:39, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Fuelled By Ramen

When did the band leave FBR? Ad94dug (talk) 21:51, 9 August 2008 (BST)

They got signed to a major label. (Mercury/Island) (Just-buzzed (talk) 06:46, 26 August 2008 (UTC))

Post-Hardcore?

The article of post-hardcore states that "a broad constellation of groups who emerged from the hardcore scene, or took inspiration from hardcore, while concerning themselves with a wider palette of expression, closer to experimental rock.", while Fall Out Boy did emerge from the chicago hardcore scene and their album Evening with your Girlfriend, Take This To Your Grave, and From Under The Cork Tree does have elements and in fact more than half of the songs their in the album can be considered post-hardcore, If you listen to stuff like "XO" from the FUTCT as well as "I slept with someone in Fall Out Boy" and "Get Busy Living or Get Busy Dying", and so could there genre be also considered as post-hardcore? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.2.107.131 (talk) 01:21, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

New album

It's called Folie à Deux and it'll be out on Nov 3 & 4. Source: http://www.friendsorenemies.com/web/foe/users/falloutboy/

 ViperBlade ^Talk!! 10:33, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

anti-gay?

i just heard that fall out boy donated something like $50,000 to banning gay marriage in california. can anyone find this anywhere else? --Late Leo (talk) 02:54, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

>>>No, actually it was $50,000 to oppose a law banning gay marriage. http://www.punknews.org/article/30721 Anarkafrica (talk) 18:43, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

WHO IN THEIR RIGHT MIND

decided to say that pop band Fall Out Boy falls along "emo"tional-hardcore bands such as Cap'n Jazz and Frodus?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.222.143.99 (talk) 05:29, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Read the associated footnotes that's what they are for. --neon white talk 12:09, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Okay, why should you trust a source that doesn't even name it correctly? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.222.135.201 (talk) 04:17, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

andy hurley

shouldn't we add that they eventually got rid of mike and raccine and then they added any from project rocket —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jacbro11 (talk • contribs) 23:34, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

Please help

I made this on accident can you please delete i dont know how, Thankz http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Director_Cut.jpgXxFallOutFan13xx (talk) 18:11, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Movie References

Fall Out Boy frequently names there songs after popular, or not-so-popular movie quotes. For example, Austin, We Have A Problem (Apollo 13 (movie)), Yule Shoot Your Eye Out (A Christmas Story), Nobody Puts Baby in a Corner (Dirty Dancing), Get Busy Living Or Get Busy Dying (Do Your Part To Save The Scene And Stop Going To Shows) (The Shawshank Redemption), Champagne For My Real Friends, Real Pain For My Sham Friends (25th Hour), and Of All the Gin Joints in the World (Casablanca (film)). A Christmas Story coincidentally has another punk rock song referencing it, Less Than Jake's Scott Farcus Takes it on the Chin. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nooose99 (talk • contribs) 00:54, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

Vandalism

Hey guys! There was some vandalism in this article. Please administrators to secure this article! cheers from Georgian wikipedia --Mero ^® 19:40, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Infinity on High

People keep editing out sections of Fall Out Boy's history, but taking out the section on a platinum major label album seems a little much. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fallinboy (talk • contribs) 16:43, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Genre mistake

Why is Fall Out Boy labeled as emo?

• Just because the bassist dresses like a scene kid and two members are from ACTUAL HARDCORE PUNK BANDS doesn't qualify the band as emo.
• None of their albums or eps have any emo sound and aren't labeled as emo, why then?
• I realize this isn't a place for opinions but compare FOB to any real emo or post-emo band:

Rites of Spring, Cap'n Jazz, Sunny Day Real Estate, Texas is the Reason, Ghosts with Vodka, and Mineral, and tell me they have any similarity.

• Cite #1 that calls Fall Out Boy "emocore", not only incorrectly uses the term emo, (it's actually "EMOTIONAL-HARDCORE", called so because it branches of from HARDCORE PUNK), it says that "they had played with different emo and metalcore units based around Chicago".

Emotional-hardcore and normal metalcore (any type of metalcore actually) are two veryyyyyy different genres, this "cite" implies that they are on the same level. Compare Rites of Spring (emo), to Bring Me the Horizon (a typical metalcore band), they are nothing alike, aside from their deep rooted genre parent, hardcorepunk. (I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO MENTION THAT THIS WEBSITE DEFENDING THE BELIEF THAT FALL OUT BOY IS ""emocore"" IS ONE SHORT PARAGRAPH)

• Cite #2 reads nothing more than

"ERROR your page was not found"

Fall Out Boy is not emotional-hardcore, i'm asking anyone, please change it. Mixing my very favorite genre with pop punk bands grows very old very, very fast. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.222.133.193 (talk) 05:57, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Fall Out Boy is emo according to several third-party reliable sources. That's all that matter here. Timmeh! 01:53, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Merger proposal/Joe Trohman's page

Joe Trohman has no individual notability and fails WP:MUSIC, so should be merged here. --neon white talk 20:10, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

There's no need for a merge. There's no notable information at Joe Trohman that isn't already here. Just redirect it. Timmeh! 20:16, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Well, wait a sec. This article has nothing about Trohman's birthdate or birthplace, for starters. And the Trohman article can surely be expanded. I'm not all that interested in Fall Out Boy, so I haven't spent much time expanding the Trohman article, but decent sources are available. The Guitar World article is good. And I don't think it was totally fair for Neon white to dismiss the starwars.com article as trivia. Many other sources have noted Trohman's interest in Star Wars [34], [35]. Trohman also has a website called Empire of the Republic, which is supposed to be a Star Wars reference. [36] Zagalejo^^^ 22:49, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Then I suggest you expand it. Anyway, place and date of birth of band members don't belong on a band article. It should either be expanded or changed to a redirect, depending on availability of reliable sources. I don't think a merge is appropriate though. Timmeh! 23:09, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Actually, I agree that the place and date of birth don't belong in this article.. but they are important biographical details, so they should be on Wikipedia somewhere. I expanded the article slightly. I can probably do more, but this honestly isn't a high priority for me right now. Zagalejo^^^ 23:20, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

There's no reason this article cannot contain bio info. Either it's relevant to the band, in which case in can go in, or it isnt and doesn't. The only valid reason would be length and they are hardly going to make this article too long. --neon white talk 13:03, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

There's more to it than length. Plopping down a bunch of biographical details for one member of the band (but not the others) is going to disrupt the flow of the article and make it look tacky. Zagalejo^^^ 18:57, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

joe deserves his own site as much as the other members. He started the band and deserves more credit than he gets.----JT fan.

^Is there a neutral point of view in the house? THE AMERICAN METROSEXUAL 07:18, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

^I honestly do not see why this is even debatable. Every other member gets his own article. Why not Joe?

Zobango (talk) 09:56, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

I agree that Joe should have his own section. Every other member does, it only seems fair. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.254.49.41 (talk) 18:33, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

We don't judge notability of subject on such ridiculous concepts as 'fairness'. This subject fails notability guidelines whereas others do not. --neon white talk 21:52, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Neon, Contrary to the many, many false reports in the press, Joe started Fall Out Boy. He conceived the idea of starting a pop-punk band after performing in hardcore bands. He auditioned every person who has participated in the band and rejected many who did not. He recruited Pete and Patrick. Most of Fall Out Boy's early efforts were conceived and practiced on the third floor of Joe's home. Therefore, no Joe = no Fall Out Boy. I don't know what you consider notable, but starting one of the most popular bands in the world seems individually notable to me. I tried to say it more humbly. You considered that "ridiculous". Don't lecture others on discussion etiquette until you develop some of your own. ---JT fan=Richard Trohman (Joe's Dad) and you can bet I'm an expert on how it, truthfully, all got started because most of it happened in my house. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.217.195.185 (talk) 01:34, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Mr. Trohman, might I ask what bands these were? I could add them to Joe's page and maybe it would stop getting as much nonsense about being "notable" as it is now. --Bottle-Of-Musical-Joy (talk) 01:11, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

That isnt a criteria we base notability on. He has no notability outside of this band. A subject cannot be notable for only being part of a notable group. Fall Out Boy are nowhere near being one 'of the most popular bands in the world' they arent even incredibly popular in their own country judging by their latest album sales. Historically they aren't a band of any importance. I think your judgement may be being clouded by fandom. Objective views are better. --neon white talk 11:22, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Patrick, Andy, and most notably Pete have their own pages, and Joe deserves his as much as they do. He is an important part of the band, and his article can definitely be expanded. I am willing to help do so. If we must merge, it'd be fair to merge all 4 member's articles, which would make the page too long. Leave his artcle separate. 203.171.196.187 (talk) 10:45, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

See above comments. --neon white talk 11:20, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Joe Trohman's page was notable until someone edited it to look as though he had done nothing and it had none of his important information. His page is fine now and he most certainly is notable, just like the rest of the band. He deserves his own page. If anyone has anything to expand/add to his page, that would be great too, but I think he is notable. Plus, he is in a pretty popular band. Sure, the band isn't the most popular in the world, but it's still something and he IS the one that started the band in the first place. I might be repeating thing other people said, but that's only because they're true.--Bottle-Of-Musical-Joy (talk) 01:00, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

There is nothing there that indicates any notability. --neon white talk 16:37, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

He passes WP:N, due to multiple sources that are primarily about him. Zagalejo^^^ 18:57, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

lead vocalists

does anyone think that pete should be consider a lead vocalists, because he does do lead on a decent number of songs (ex. carpal tunnel of love, i slept with someone ion fall out boy and all i got was this stupid song about me, get busy living get busy dying, ect.) cause he does do all the screaming vocals in the band —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.226.79.244 (talk) 19:29, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

I dont think the band has a lead vocalist as such. --neon white talk 16:34, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Genre

They are a pop band and should be listed as so. Their old albums are of a different genre, pop-punk. Anything after their album 'From Under the Cork Tree' is indeed pop music, as there is nothing punk about them, from their music styling to their appearance. Also, 'Emo' is not a genre of music. Emotive Hardcore is a genre, and this is most definitely not emotive hardcore. Thank you, I hope someone gets around to editing this from "pop-punk" to "pop" or, "pop-alternative". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.147.111.233 (talk) 20:37, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

Fall Out Boy does not play Emo/Emo Core music!! It is punk rock, punk, rock and alternative & punk, as tagged in their albums!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hittingray (talk • contribs) 06:26, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

fall out boy is in the genre of rock. many people call them by different sub-genres suck pop-punk, punk and "emo" (emotional music). —Preceding unsigned comment added by XXhardcorepiratesXx (talk • contribs) 04:33, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

People say that fall out boy are emo. they are not emo. they have no emo music, they are not emo. Ok, so pete wears a little bit of guy-liner. That make doesn't make him emo, that does not make the BAND emo. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.85.154.233 (talk) 04:30, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Oh my god that is so true, fall out boy is not emo, their music isn't emo. pete only wears guyliner but that doesn't make THEM emo. Fall Out Boy is an awesome band, but they haven't made more good music since pete got married to ashlee simpeson(an awesome couple). i think just because of the 'just married' they still should make and continue their music.♥ --Z10123 (talk) 13:17, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

According to the Philadelphia Daily News, former Give Up The Ghost vocalist Wes Eisold recently settled out of court with multi-platinum pop-punk act Fall Out Boy after the band used “several phrases and verses” from American Nightmare/Give Up The Ghost. Eisold never gave permission for his lyrics to be used, and never received any royalties from record sales. On the band’s new album, Infinity on High, Eisold is credited as co-writer on three songs.Deathwithafireinside (talk) 04:12, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

How do we know if Fall Out Boy emocore? Do you have any proof?--989 RVD 02:40, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

BBC can say what it wants, but Fall Out Boy is not emocore, and BBC doesn't give arguments... Fall Out Boy is emo, if you wants, do they heard them? Please, correct the article.

In the article, the second reference (2), at the final, doesn't works. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.148.176.27 (talk) 11:53, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.175.68.145 (talk) 16:34, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

http://www.isound.com/fall_out_boy

http://www.bbc.co.uk/music/readingandleeds06/lineupandartists/fall_out_boy/

http://www.rockdetector.com/artist,53816.sm

http://www.rollingstone.com/artists/falloutboy/albums/album/294415/review/6210973/a_santa_cause_its_a_punk_rock_christmas

So say they. --LaraLove^Talk/_Contribs 03:15, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Fall Out Boy is in no way emocore. That is a ridiculous statement. Fall Out Boy shows no sign of any type of emo influence. How they would fit into the genre of emocore is beyond me. Emocore was like Rites of Spring and other Emotive Hardcore Punk bands. Fall Out Boy doesn't even seem to be influenced by Post-Emo Indie Rock. That should be removed. Spreading misinformation is not the job of an encyclopedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.63.75.131 (talk • contribs) FALL OUT BOY HAS SOLD MORE THAN 3.5 MILLION ALBUMS SO FALL OUT BOY IS AMAZING!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.222.248.17 (talk) 14:31, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Just because fall out boy claims they are emo it doesn't mean they are.wtf

They're not emo, but I think they use elements of it in their music.

Its a proven fact that if you are emo, you will always deny it. Besides, they aren't emo, and only one of their songs is even close to emo. That song is 7 Minutes in Heaven, and the only reason that it is almost close to emo is because its talking about Pete trying to kill himself, but it still is the only thing about the band itself that is even close to emo. BTW, they're too awesome to be emoMUSiC CHiC

You have proof that if you really are "emo" that you will always deny it? 76.2.116.135 02:02, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

I've heard two FOB songs (admittedly... only 2) and this description confounds me. Can somebody please explain this to me. I mean.. they sound like Panic at the Disco because they helped out Panic!, NOBODY KNEW ABOUT THEM UNTIL fob WENT ON TOUR WITH THEM AND TOLD EVERYONE ABOUT THE RADICAL NEW BAND..--Dr who1975 18:07, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Pop-rock would be more appropriate. Manupod 19:13, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Yes... so does anybody object to me removing or changing it?--Dr who1975 19:49, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

First time I hear them i thought- pop-punk.They're pop-punk but mixed with soft core emo. Pop-emo would be appropriate (that last was a joke =] ) Xr 1 21:07, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

When I think of pop punk.. I think of Green Day and Blink 182... fast drum beats and power chords... I'd call FOB emo before pop punk but apparently that's controversial as well (and since I don't apparently know enough about emo I'd probably stay away from that altogether). This band is such a hybrid... I think altenrative rock and rock pop are better descriptions.--Dr who1975 21:34, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

I agree. Alternative and Pop-rock are a much closer description of their sound. We should stray away from using the term "emo" with so-called "third wave emo" because it is very controversial and generally untrue to what the genre is. There are much better ways to describe bands like P!ATD and FOB, since they don't fit into the criteria of emo (much less emocore). They are loosely by bands bands that could be debated as emo/post-emo indie (such as the Get-up Kids) but still don't fit the sound of the genre. Manupod 01:30, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Look here [37] Fall Out Boy-genres: Punk-Pop, Emo. Look in their MySpace [38] Genre: Pop-punk Just Keep like it is now. Xr 1 06:46, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

theyre more of punk/pop-rock, depending on the song.

Fall Out Boy just isn't emo in anyway. To say they are emocore is just ridiculous. Pop-punk maybe, but its a stretch. And just because a site says they are emo doesn't mean they are right. If you ask just about anyone who knows emo, and knows the origin of emo they will tell you Fall Out Boy is not even close. Mayve we should add "Disputed Sub Genres" like My Chem. Manupod 11:00, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Manupod, what is Emo anyway. Tell me in detail why Fall Out Boy is not Emo. I always thought Emo was emotional music that sounds like Morrisey or the Smiths (in which case Fall Out Boy definetly wouldn't measure up). To me, Fall Out Boy sounds just like Panic at the Disco which is apparently an Emocore band. Apparently The Faint, one of my favorite bands, is Emo to some people but I don't understand why.

If the FOB proclaims themselves to be Emo I'd be willing to give them a little leeway there. Obviously if someone like Garth Brooks proclaimed himself to be Emo I'd fight it. But if a band like Fall Out Boy say's they're Emo then I think they're music is close enough to whatever Emo is supposed to be that they should have it listed at least as a disputed genre. The same would be true if they declared themselves Pop Punk(which they have not.. in fact, I didn;t see anything about Emo or Pop Punk on that myspace page), in such a case, I'd still disagree with the Pop Punk tag but I'd be willing to give a little leeway. Sounds like I need to check out the My Chemical Romance page later today.--Dr who1975 14:30, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Well, Emo stands for Emotive/Emotional Hardcore. It started as a subgenre of Hardcore Punk in the mid 80's in Washington DC. Ian MacKaye (of Minor Threat/Embrace/Fugazi) is said to have coined the term to describe The Band Rites of Spring. Emo bands in the 80's had loud, distorted guitars and generally screamed vocals accompanied by emotional, less rebellious lyrics. This is what has become known as Emocore. Some Emocore bands are Rites of Spring, Gray Matter, Moss Icon. Calling Fall Out Boy Emocore is simply ridiculous because Emocore had a much heavier sound that what people would call punk (The Sex Pistols for example). You would obviously not call FOB punk. Example: [39]

After the period of prominent Emocore bands came the so-called "Second Wave" of Emo, which is generally called Post-Emo Indie Rock. Post-Emo Indie was influenced by Emocore bands, but had a much more melodic sound. Bands under that genre would be Sunny Day Real Estate, Mineral, Jawbreaker (borderline emocore), Braid, Texas is the Reason, and The Appleseed Cast. These bands are much softer and contain less screaming. Many people argue that even they are true emo. Even so, most Post-Emo Indie bands contain a more punk influenced sound than what you may call Pop-Punk.

FOB was influenced by bands such as The Get-Up Kids, Jimmy Eat World, and Dashboard Confessional, which have Post-Emo Indie influence, but are generally considered indie/pop-rock. Fall Out Boy have a small amount of Post-Emo influence, but simply do not fit the criteria of what Emo music is. If you do not think they fit the criteria of pop-punk then they can not even come close to emocore. Panic! at the Disco and The Faint are not emo either. Panic! at the Disco is strictly Alternative/Pop-Rock and show no punk or emo influence. The Faint are Indie Rock. Manupod 19:02, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Because you're blind =]in their myspace page under their logo and above their picture is written Pop-Punk. And I'm not saying they truly are emo, but some amount of influence...

They have some influence, but they don't qualify as Emo (much less emocore). Green Day and Blink 182 have punk influence, but that doesn't make them punk. Led Zeppelin has a lot of blues influence, but that doesn't makes them a blues band. Manupod 19:21, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Well I meant the same thing. And generally they are pop-punk!

They are basically just pop-rock. That is why emo should be taken out of the genre listing. Manupod 19:50, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Let me preface what I'm about to write with I don't care if they are Emo , Emocore, Elmo from Sesame street or not, you're arguing with the wrong guy about that. I double checked the my space page... the "pop punk" is in dark font in front of a dark backround, are they trying to hide the words? I still don't agree that they are pop punk but I guess I'll need to find an expert citation arguing for that if I'm to at least put it under disputed genres.--Dr who1975 03:00, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

I did some more reasearch... the "pop punk" is there for search purposes and it means "Pop and Punk" not "Pop Punk" as oultined by FOB themselves in this interview. The words are in a tiny, dark font against a dark backround (you'd have to have super vision to see it). I'll be removing the pop punk shortly from this page.--Dr who1975 03:05, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Since I'm apparently much better at doing research than you, I did you a favor and found this interview where FOB definitevly says they are not EMO. I'm so blind, I simply typed "Fall Out Boy" "not emo" into google and it came up. You're welcome.--Dr who1975 03:30, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

I wanna say that they are not Punk.Listen to some Punk and you'll see they're not punk.And they're not Pop-they can't be that.So the most appropriate seems to be pop-punk.May be they don't like this category because they have other influences too and don't sound like other pop-punk bands.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Xr 1 (talk • contribs)

They are most definetly Pop... pop is any band that uses some derivation of the verse-chorus-verse-bridge-verse structure so it's pretty all encompassing. They have punk elements... but that does not make them punk. Instead of listing punk as a genre... you should work it into the article itself.--Dr who1975 15:12, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

According to FOB, they are pop and punk but not pop punk. WTF? Pop punk is "a fusion genre that combines elements of punk rock with pop music, to varying degrees." --LaraLove^Talk/_Contribs 15:48, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Yes, to varying degrees, however FOB's music does not have the degree/elements of punk tht are typical for pop punk, for instance their songs do not have a punky beat like most Green Day, Blink 182, and Offspring songs have. Please read this interview where FOB themselves proclaim that they are not pop punk. You may have also noticed I have cited the article in the Musical Style section. If you think about it, they also have elements of hardcore music and of punk and their lyrics are very emotional, but that doesn't make them Emo either now does it. If FOB is pop punk then they must also by Emo and Emocore since they have those elements too.--Dr who1975 17:31, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Oh...Thnks Fr Th Mmrs is also written with a dark font in the dark background.May be they are trying to hide the name of their new single?... Xr 1 19:27, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

What's the name of the new single?--Dr who1975 20:07, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

I said it. 'Thnks Fr Th Mmrs'. It's also in the article.Xr 1 20:21, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Fall Out boy call their music pop/punk it says on their myspace. I agree with them. The take overs the break overs video is coming out soon!

"(they are in a tiny, dark font against a dark backround)" I can't believe this is actually in the article. Pointing this out is misleading, as if you're trying to say that it's purposefully that way in order to attempt to hide it. They've been asked to definitively state what genre they feel they are in and they--like so many other bands--dance, dance around it. "Pop and punk, but not pop punk". Pop punk is a fusion of pop and punk. To be kinda pop and kinda punk is to be pop punk. It's the entire point of the creation of the genre. But they don't want to be labeled, so they pretend to be their own unique hybrid of pop punk that goes by some other name, but they aren't revealing it. Will all of that fit into the info box? Probably not. Regardless, the Musical Style section needs to be removed until it can be fully expanded. Which, as can be noted in my rant above, will probably not be anytime soon. Regards, LaraLove^Talk/_Contribs 16:42, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Okay, I've been researching to try to reslove this once and for all. Here are my results (emphasis mine)...

This is from Walmart.com:

"Career Overview

The mercurial term "emo" has meant many different things since its first appearance in the mid-1980s hardcore punk underground. By the mid 2000s, the term was best exemplified by the band Fall Out Boy. Playing an accessible brand of melodic rock marked by clever, classically angsty lyrics and the blistering energy of punk's harsher sub-genres, Fall Out Boy rocketed to near TRL superstardom following the release of 2005's From Under the Cork Tree.

Biography

Originating from Chicago, Illinois, USA, emocore band Fall Out Boy began to take shape at the turn of the new millennium. Formed by [current members], all the members had played with different emo and metal-core units based around Chicago's insular underground hardcore scene. [...] A demo CD emerged in 2001 [...] The short and snappy Fall Out Boy's Evening Out With Your Girlfriend [...] served notice of the quartet's fast developing mastery of the pop punk style and their witty, self-referential lyrics. Released only a few months later, the quartet's [...] Take This To Your Grave, was completed [...] The album's strong critical reception allied to support from the band's powerful internet-based fanbase, established Fall Out Boy's reputation at the forefront of the alternative rock scene. [...]"

MTV.com reads:

"[...] As Fall Out Boy, the quartet used the unbridled intensity of hardcore as a foundation for melody-drenched pop-punk with a heavy debt to the emo scene. [...]"

AOL Music states "Musical Styles: Emo, Punk-Pop, Indie Rock".

A Rolling Stone article reads:

"A year ago, Wentz and his band -- an emo-ish pop-punk quartet from the wealthy suburbs of Chicago that took its name from the sidekick to Bart Simpson's favorite superhero, Radioactive Man -- were an indie act known only to skateboarding Warped Tour kids."

Many other pages say the same thing. Neither their label nor their band page make note of genre (that I can find). Every reliable--and semi-reliable--source I can find mentions the same genres.

Regards LaraLove^Talk/_Contribs 18:13, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

In case you didn't read this response to your comment above before starting this new thread: FOB's music does not have the degree/elements of punk tht are typical for pop punk, for instance their songs do not have a punky beat like most Green Day, Blink 182, and Offspring songs have. Please read this interview where FOB themselves proclaim that they are not pop punk. You may have also noticed I have cited the article in the Musical Style section. If you think about it, they also have elements of hardcore music and of punk and their lyrics are very emotional, but that doesn't make them Emo either now does it. If FOB is pop punk then they must also by Emo and Emocore since they have those elements too.--Dr who1975 20:17, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

If you give me a day or two to think about what's best to put there... I will clean up this section along the lines of your suggestions. If you want to take a crack at it before I get to it then I'm sure we can come to an understanding. As for the tiny, dark font, Being there for search puposes is a valid rational for it being hidden.... it doesn't imply any sort of disingeniune motive. If you feel the article is too POV then we can clean it up a bit, I do think all the basic information I've added is relevant. As for the overall Pop Punk /Emo thing... if Fall Out Boy says they aren't pop punk then surely that trumps MTV's assesment at least to some degree. Considering the information can be made available under Musical Style - through Disputed Subgenres, I think that is where the information should reside. I still need to check your citations, but I want to say that it's difficult to cite some sites such as Wal Mart because they are trying to sell things at the retail level becuase direct sales pages are many times not allowed on wikipedia (plus, being direct retail also colors their description of the work as they are purposely, deceptively trying to reach a wider audience).--Dr who1975 20:01, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

I didn't see that previous reply. And yea, about Wal-Mart, in my original edit I'd put that I wasn't sure how reliable it would be considered, but then I found the additional sites. I totally understand your point, but mine is that while the band says they aren't Emo, Emocore or Pop-punk, they don't say what they are. Peter says their pop and their punk but they're not pop-punk. That makes no sense. That's like saying I'm a little red and a little white but I'm not pink. Red and white makes pink. Mixing pop and punk makes pop-punk. I don't know. It's a pain in the ass. It's only a genre, but this is an encyclopedic article, so it needs to be as accurate as possible. Everyone claims the same genres, for the most part, but the band denies them all without clarification. So what do we put? Popish punk rock with emo influence? I don't think the line is that wide. _{That's sarcasm, for anyone who missed it... no "are you crazy?" replies.} --LaraLove^T/_C 03:58, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

"Peter says their pop and their punk but they're not pop-punk. That makes no sense." - Yeah!That's really stupid.Combining elements of pop and punk is pop-punk and they are doing that. "Popish punk rock with emo influence?" That's the thing =] Xr 1 07:37, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

I put back the Alternative Rock but left the pop rock off. I don;t think there was any dispute about the Alternative Rock (I also don't see why anyone would have a problem with pop rock but since I was the guy who put it there I'll just let that go).--Dr who1975 22:03, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

They are definitely some sort of rock, but I think calling them emo rock is going just a little too far. If they really were an emo rock band then there would be more than one song about suicide, and Pete and Patrick would be screaming in almost every song. FOBaholic 02:07, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

I think that the musical style section should be omitted for now, because it doesn't really have anything that is necessary. Bring it back when this is all settled, or keep it out if it is found not to be needed. --Lostmeatthelost 21:59, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Fall Out boy call their music pop/punk it says on their myspace. I agree with them. The take overs the break overs video is coming out soon! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.158.242.99 (talk) 16:18, June 20, 2007

See Talk:Fall_Out_Boy#Pop_Punk?!?!?!. LaraLove^T/_C 04:51, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Pete Wentz must be trying to trick himself. FOB falls into no other category but pop-punk. fast drums, power chords, even their CD's structures are the definition of pop-punk. No matter how the term EMO began, in modern times it means music in which the musicians complain about girls breaking up with them, or starting relationships with girls. Fall Out Boy is a emo punk band. Alternative music is music that dosen't really fit into any other genre, fall out boys music does fit into a genre. they sound very much like all other bands in their genre, emo pop punk.

No...no..... Emo is a specific genre, and Fallout Boy are nowhere near that genre... The Used and MCR COULD be described as emo....but Fallout Boy? No way... There's no hardcore emotion, no wailing voice...and they don't take themselves seriously enough to be emo...

I think they nailed the whiny lyrics, though.Codackussell 02:38, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

But, according to You Don't Know Emo, which i believe has the CLOSEST definition to the correct meaning of emo, Fall Out Boy do not fall under the category of emo. The closest thing i can say is read this page, and examine it for yourselves. Emo music, in any form, is all UNDERGROUND and alot of it is very abrasive and really not a marketable variant of punk, as per Fall Out Boy, who have alot of mainstream success, and write really catchy pop songs. Given this information, any reasonable person could clearly and easily deduce that Fall Out Boy and any relevant bands on MTV or FUSE or whichever station plays alot of alternative rock, are NOT emo. They may have some small characteristics of the original genre in their music (which does NOT mean "whiny" vocals or lyrics), but that is just that, a characteristic. The overwhelming presence in their music is pure POP PUNK.

Here is a link to the website. http://www.youdontknowemo.tk/

Thank you. 76.2.116.135 01:59, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

I dispute the default position that seems to be given to Alternative rock. Alternative rock is a term for bands that are not as forumlaic as Fall Out Boy. Fall Out Boy does not compare in breadth to the 90s alternative bands like Smashing Pumpkins or Nirvana, and especially not to R.E.M. Just out of simplicity, proof exists of their pop element in their position as commericial pitchmen in Circuit City ads. A band that would attract a traditional alternative audience could not/would not ever take part in something like that. The word alternative can only be used on a band that is not so overly commercialized. The music industry may want to make the word generic, but the music industry's brand positioning should not be what a Wikipedia page should ultimately give in to. The word Rock in itself is a generic term that would be appropriate. But frankly, alternative rock is not a general term, and even if it was, Fall Out Boy does not have the musical elements / drive to invent that would be make it correct. SpacePope 07:08, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

I have added citation needed marks to their references as an alternative rock band, because it is not correct to fall back on that term as this argument over Pop punk and emo continues. Looking at the page for alternative rock, it's easy to see that none of the genres in dispute here fall under it. The sub-genres do fall under Punk rock. It would be more appropriate to replace Alternative rock with that until this dispute is settled. Again, Alternative rock should not be used like a generic term on Wikipedia, it does have a specific meaning as highlighted on its Wiki page. SpacePope 20:34, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Again, I'd like to reiterate that if indeed the compromise reached that was mentioned in the warning box was just to place Alternative rock, I take great exception to that. There is no legitimate source that will confirm Fall Out Boy as being Alternative Rock. Alternative is being used here to generalize, yet it's generalization is incorrect. Alternative rock ---> grunge as Punk rock -----> pop punk. The fact is there is no way that Fall Out Boy is alternative under the Wikipedia definition. The types of music that certain people believe them to be are all found as sub-genres of Punk rock, not Alternative rock. This is a blatant inaccuracy that needs to be corrected. SpacePope 00:39, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

-- Acid Punk? Alternative? Give me a break. Listen to their music. Look at their main audience. Pop-Rock or Pop-Punk is a much more accurate.211.30.52.219 02:17, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Like Pete Wentz said, "We don't write songs to fit in a category, we justs write Fall out boy songs," If they are emo or whatever we don't have to know, it's their business and who cares about if they are emo, why can't you just listen to their music? --Crazymcrfan 18:58, 26 August 2007 (UTC)crazymcrfan

What people don't get is that, Emo, has nothing to do with lyrics, or the look of the band. Emo is a sub-genre that was created to break away from the common limitations of punk. --Iluvmesodou 07:56, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

fall out boy thinks there only pop punk heres my proof http://www.myspace.com/falloutboy look at the genres above the picture. Kevinhwashere 00:30, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

I somehow missed this until now. They've stated (I'll have to dig for the link) that the genres listed on their myspace page are only for categorization on myspace, but they they don't consider themselves as pop-punk. Personally, I believe those to be the most accurate, though. LaraLove 05:26, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

I don't understand why the article lists them as having "disputed subgenres" when there are a plethera of sources citing them as being emo. Just because the band and their fans don't seem to like the label doesn't mean it isn't true. This is an encyclopedia not a fan site if enough reliable sources say that they're emo there is absolutely no reason why they should be listed as such. Display Name 04:49, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Emo is listed as "disputed" for the following reasons:

1. Although many news outlets refer to them as emo, their music does not fall under the emo genre.
2. Inclusion of emo causes much debate and is consistently challenged as incorrect; in other words, it is disputed regularly.

It seems to be the most appropriate way of including it.

It's worth noting, I think, that I'm a FOB fan and could really care less if they were emo, as I am a fan of some emo bands and am not at all ashamed of that. However, I don't believe FOB falls under the emo genre. Note also that I've never really taken a position on it. I've actually listed several sites that claim emo. My biggest issue is regarding pop-punk, which they very much are, in my opinion, but they claim otherwise. Very frustrating. LaraLove 05:18, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

P.S. I have to rewrite that section anyway to include their musical influences (something I've been putting off for a while now). I could rewrite it to more closely resemble that of My Chemical Romance, which has encountered a similar issue as FOB regarding genres.

I hope nobody ever deletes this page so years from now when Fall Out Boy is old music people can see how pathetic this discussion is on whether on not they were apart of the scene of the half-decade. Knight Whitefire 05:11, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Okay, I would never call FOB an "emo" band. I would just say pop-punk. However some of the songs i would say definitely have emo influences, mostly due to dark screaming. Here's the list:

    Saturday
    The Pros and Cons of Breathing 
    Calm Before the Storm
    I slept with someone in FOB and all i got...
    Get Busy Living or Get Busy Dying* 
    The Carpal Tunnel of Love

• There's the list. That's just my opinion. Get Busy living/dying isn't necessarily emo in sound (no lengthy screaming) but considering the ending it sounds like an emo message. Someone also said 7 Minutes in Heaven was emo. Emo songs have to have evil screaming (i think) like the above ones, and not just a death theme. Otherwise all the linkin park songs would be emo (why aren't they?). But overall FOB is not an "emo band".--Darth'ric--Jan. 19 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.162.49.219 (talk) 21:16, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Do you want to know what REAL emo is? Look up "circle takes the square", and "Saetia". FOB is NOT emo because their songs have absolutely no screaming in them. To be emo (or screamo), you must have at least 40% of your lyrics screamed, and no sung. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.27.49.57 (talk) 05:19, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

^ Are you an idiot? wow, you must think you are real hardcore. circle takes the square and saetia are screamo bands. emo or emocore is fugazi, rites of spring, dag nasty, embrace etc. emocore is just the original term for emo in the 80s which got shortened. Fall Out Boy sound nothing like pop punk (ramones, screeching weasel, the vandals, etc) either. They fit the genre Pop Rock better than any others.

THEY A-R-E EMO —Preceding unsigned comment added by Xdrowningxangelx (talk • contribs) 03:52, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I think they should be labelled emo rock as well because many other bands such as Paramore who you wouldn't think are emos actually are! --Seán Travers (talk) 09:06, 17 May 2008 (UTC)Seán Travers, 10:06, 17 May 2008 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Seán Travers (talk • contribs)

it does not matter what you put in a warning box saying not to add genres/styles if somebody finds reliable source that call them a certain genre people are free to add it you may disagree but you must allow all points of view as long as they are sourced i added emo because i have a legit source .though i would agree these dudes are not alternative rock but if somebody finds a legit source that says that they would be free to add it as well--Wikiscribe (talk) 14:58, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Actually if you listen to their lesser known songs like Our Lawyers Made Us Change..., I Slept With Someone In FOB, XO, The Carpal Tunnel of Love, and pretty much almost all their songs in Take This To Your Grave, they are pop punk, they have fast beats and melodic vocals and to a lesser extent screams, however the songs XO, The Carpal Tunnel of Love and I Slept With Someone.., have heavier and more distorted sound and features more screams than most of their songs which could also count them in being Melodic Hardcore, and admittedly some of their lyrical content shows signs of vengefulness and hatred which are often attributed to emo, and just a thing is that they are or atleast were part of the Chicago Punk rock scene. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.2.109.22 (talk) 16:25, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

I say power pop. They're not pop-punk, because that's bands like Screeching Weasel, and Descendents, and they sound nothing like them. They're not emo either, because emo is independent hardcore bands like Rites Of Spring and Moss Icon. Maybe you should listen to real emo and pop punk frist before you take Wikipedia or Allmusic's word that Good Charlotte, Simple Plan, and My Chemical Romance are pop-punk or emo. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.110.234.231 (talk) 20:37, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Emo is "emotional-hardcore" in no way do these guys have any aspect that is hardcore thus killing the argument that they are emo. It seems that people are trying to rename emo which is stupid because you can't call something different just because you want to. You can't call a whale a fish because it swims in the ocean, a whale is a mammal by definition. Claiming FOB is emo is just like claiming a whale is a fish. Just because they came from a similar scene as actual emo bands like Rites of Spring does not make them emo, end of story. Gellister (talk) 23:47, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Emo is not synonymous with "emotional-hardcore." Where did you come up with that? Reference? —ŁittleÄlien¹⁸² 00:04, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

It bugs me when people have no idea what goes on with the punk rock movements. Fall Out Boy is no longer Emo. The only album i would ever consider emo is "Evening out with your girl." I would call their new stuff ("Infinty on high" and later) Pop rock. The stuff in between is kinda post-hardcore-ish and pop-punk. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.224.229.202 (talk) 01:43, 27 February 2009 (UTC)