Talk:Fall City Masonic Hall

article name

Falls City Masonic Hall, in Fall City, per photographer's description

A possible error in name of place as given in the National Register's NRIS database was identified by editor SarekOfVulcan at List of Masonic buildings. There are known to be typos in the NRIS database, so it is quite possibly an error to be corrected. However it is also possible that the city/village has been known both as Falls City and as Fall City, so it is conceivable that "Falls City Masonic Hall" is proper historic/current name for place and that it is located in what is now known as "Fall City". The NRHP nomination document would be definitive; NRIS typos are usually cleared up by checking that. I'll open a possible error report now at wp:NRIS info issues WA. If an error is confirmed, I of course agree this article should be moved to "Fall City Masonic Hall", and the error report at wp:NRIS info issues WA should then be updated. Thanks. --doncram (talk) 18:55, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Here are various links that show the use of "Fall City":

• http://www.historylink.org/index.cfm?DisplayPage=output.cfm&file_id=2376
• http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003199400_farmhouseside15m.html
• http://www.kingcounty.gov/sites/exec/bred/~/media/exec/bred/HPdocuments/King_County_Landmarks.ashx

I would consider the last link, the King County Landmarks site, to be the most convincing, personally. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 19:07, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for those links, and for adding pic to article, too. I note the pic description includes:

Falls City Masonic Hall (built 1895), 4304 337th Place SE, Fall City, Washington. The building is listed on the National Register of Historic Places and is a King County landmark. Due to a clerical error at the time of its founding, the hall's name refers to "Falls City", whereas the town is "Fall City".

I dunno what's right, now, though it seems like both spellings are then valid and should be reflected in the article. I'll address this more somehow, before i archive the corresponding item from my User talk page. --doncram (talk) 20:03, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

According to https://fortress.wa.gov/dahp/wisaard/dahpreports/historicpropertyreport.aspx?id=46830&ug=1 , both the "historic" and "common" names of the building are "Fall City Masonic Hall".--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 20:34, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

• Since I took the photo, I was recently asked to comment. The clerical error really did occur when the lodge was founded, and the lodge ended up with "Falls City" in its name rather than "Fall City" (a mistake people make all the time, I might add). You can contact them, and they will confirm this. - Jmabel | Talk 22:41, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
  • Could you clarify this further? Where is the name "Falls City", considering even your picture of the sign in front says "Fall City"?--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 15:04, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

I appreciate that Jmabel responded to my request to comment here, in addition to having provided the pic in the first place. I dunno that Jmabel is going to be able to provide documentation, or want to. Jmabel already suggested verification of what he/she learned on the spot, is possible by contacting the lodge. Good documentation, probably detailing the naming confusion history, is also available in the NRHP nomination document. How to get that, for free, is described at wp:NRHPhelp (basically, send an email and ask for it). Since getting that would help in other respects of developing this article, i suggest pursuing that approach now, if you are interested in further evaluation of the name or other development of the article. It doesn't now sound like there is any error in the current name. --doncram (talk) 15:20, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

It appears you are stating that the NRHP trumps any other reliable source, which I don't believe is the case.--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 15:29, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

3 ec's later: Absolutely not, i am not asserting that "NRHP trumps", that is an inappropriate projection of your own. The NRHP nomination document is available for free, though, and is usually a good, reliable document, often 20-30 pages and written by a professional historian. It would most likely provide good info on the point you question. I suggested that you get it, and have the additional info it provides to inform this discussion. --doncram (talk) 15:45, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

Ah, I see where the clerical error came in. According to http://www.freemason-wa.org/RosterOfLodges/RosterOfLodgesCity.aspx, the name of the lodge that meets in Fall City is "Falls City". However, the article is about the building, not the organization. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 15:32, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

*screams in frustration* You've got to be freaking kidding me. http://web.archive.org/web/20060511162249/www.fallcitylodge.com/fallcitylodgepix4.JPG Oh, I get it now: it was built as "Falls City", now it's called "Fall City". Whatever. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 15:42, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

Heh heh. That plaque is funny. Yep, frustrating. --doncram (talk) 15:45, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, especially since that King County plaque is in conflict with the King County database listing. *rolls eyes*--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 16:01, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved. Vegaswikian (talk) 02:21, 30 April 2011 (UTC)

---

Falls City Masonic Hall → Fall City Masonic Hall – Per discussion above, "Fall City Masonic Hall" is the current name of the building, "Falls City" is the name of the lodge that meets inside it.--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 21:06, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

Oppose. Okay, i'll bite. Per discussion above, Falls City Masonic Hall is the name of the building. As documented for example by this photo of plaque: http://classic-web.archive.org/web/20060511162249/www.fallcitylodge.com/fallcitylodgepix4.JPG. Also, I note that the editor seems not to have obtained the free NRHP nomination document, which would be relevant and could quite possibly shed more light on the naming of the building. --doncram 21:16, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

You mean the plaque that states "now known as Fall City Masonic Hall"? --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 21:18, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

I mean the plaque that reads in all-caps big letters "FALLS CITY MASONIC HALL", yes. About the building listed on the U.S. National Register of Historic Places as "Falls City Masonic Hall". Which you had just verified yourself in this edit to a page about possible error corrections, i.e. you verified it is not an error to call it the Falls City Masonic Hall. I don't understand why you would just now open this requested move, a few seconds later. --doncram 21:24, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

Simple. There was no typo in the NRIS listing - it was picking up a decades-old typo from the Grand Lodge of WA. However, that's not the name it currently goes by -- hence the move request. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 21:28, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

Support move. It's clear from this source that the current common name of the building is Fall City Masonic Hall, and it's clear from this source that the "S" in the name of the lodge is there by mistake and has no bearing on what the building is actually called. (Additionally, common sense tells me that a masonic hall in Fall City is rather likely to be known as "Fall City Masonic Hall.") --Orlady (talk) 01:06, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.