Talk:Eurovision Song Contest 2025/Archive 1

Archive 1

Slovakia

Given how in the source for Slovakia's return, Ľuboš Machaj only states that "if everything goes without problems" the country would return, can we already consider this confirmation of participation? Even the article title seems to have been changed since being included here from "Slovakia returns to Eurovision 2025" to "Slovakia wants to return to Eurovision in 2025". Mr. Thistle (talk) 18:23, 10 September 2023 (UTC)

I think it is a bit early to be considered a confirmation, it sounds more like a statement of hope for the moment; and this would mean also including Luxembourg. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 12:02, 20 September 2023 (UTC)

Speculation

Each year we have the same discussion and the result is always the same (because of how Wikipedia works). Unless an entity has confirmed they are doing something, mention cannot be included in the participants area. We cannot speculate on behalf of any broadcaster or attempt to draw conclusions about what they could do. Grk1011 (talk) 18:18, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

I completely concur. Too many of the sources included are very vague, and in some cases do not mention 2025 specifically at all. Unless there is something concrete within the sources that states what a country intends to do, and specifically for 2025, then the information should not be presented. Doing otherwise would be a violation of WP:CRYSTAL. Sims2aholic8 (talk) 23:14, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

Portugal

RTP President of the Board of Directors has confirmed in this article by Eurovoix that Portugal has no intention to withdraw from Eurovision, stating that: "it makes no sense for RTP to consider leaving Eurovision." I brought the topic here as I was unsure if we could consider this a confirmation of participation or not and as such I was looking for the community's opinion on this. The source for this information is https://eurovoix.com/2024/05/13/portugal-rtp-ebu-may-14/ Violatie (talk) 08:25, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

Russia

@IvanScrooge98: Should we add Russia into the 2023 and 2024 articles? Or do we leave Russia yellow with no comment, like Yugoslavia in the 90s — IмSтevan ^talk 17:17, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

I think it would make more sense to leave it out, since its suspension is not related to those contests; otherwise, out of consistency, we would have to repeat it year after year until (and if) Russian broadcasters are ever reintegrated into the EBU. ~ IvanScrooge98 (talk) 17:51, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

I like it as it is now. It's very briefly written why they have no chance to partcipate. They have a long history in the contest, and I think there is a lot of readers interested in knowing the situation about Russia, so I don't see why such a short line, as it is now can't be there Thomediter (talk) 11:55, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

Norway

As of the most recent version of the article, a Hebrew article on a songwriting camp for MGP is listed as confirmation for Norway participating. This seems strange to me, as an article on that exact songwriting camp has previously been listed as source for Norwegian participation, but has later been removed as it didn't seem to confirm anything about Norway's actual ESC participation, only about MGP.

While MGP has so far always served as the Norwegian national selection, there is a theoretical possibility of it taking place without serving as such in 2025, as previous editions of other national selections have shown (Portugal's Festival da Canção in 1970 and 2000 as well as Hungary's A Dal from 2020 onwards come to mind), so can we really take an announcement of this songwriting camp (not even MGP itself) as confirmation for Norway's participation? Mr. Thistle (talk) 14:26, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

A similar source was used to make the same assertion but this was removed a few weeks ago for the exact reasoning you described. I've gone ahead and removed it again. Sims2aholic8 (talk) 15:24, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

I still think Norway should be considered a confirmed participants, when Melodi Grand Prix has been confirmed. That show was made and has always been used to select the Norweigan Eurovision Participant, so in what world does an announcement of that show not mean Norway will take part in Eurovision. We risk, having a very short list, and appear outdated, if we want literal words for every single confirmation of participants. Thomediter (talk) 15:58, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

Sure, if they properly confirm MGP and don't explicitly state that it will no longer be connected to ESC (kind of how Iceland formally disconnected their national selection from Eurovision this year), we can assume they participate. As long as it's only a songwriting camp as is the case right now though, it's a bit too little to really confirm their participation. Mr. Thistle (talk) 16:11, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

I disagree. MGP is not synonymous for Eurovision. If we make this synonymous, does that mean that Norway does not participate if the MGP is not organised? Of course not. But that's what happens if you grant those events an automatic connection. And I don't think we risk having a very short list; Eurovision media are very keen on looking for and publishing country confirmations, including literal words. And one could argue that this is still all speculation until the EBU publishes the official list of participants in September/October, so the fact that we're covering it ahead of the official list of participants, means that we need to source it well, clear and explicit. And it cannot be outdated as long as the official list of participants is not published. Hhl95 (talk) 00:15, 14 May 2024 (UTC) knowing norway: they will not participate without mgp. in 1991 mgp was hosted by a different channel and nrk did not want to send its winner. mgp have not been held when norway have not participated.84.208.108.74 (talk) 18:11, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Israel

Israel is listed as a non-returning country, is there any source confirming this?

I saw the edit history says "Israel cannot return", but I don't see any definite reason why Israel would be banned next year and can't find anything about this on the internet Rockoro (talk) 12:12, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Okay, this was reverted as of https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Eurovision_Song_Contest_2025&diff=prev&oldid=1223959688&title=Eurovision_Song_Contest_2025&diffonly=1

Nevermind Rockoro (talk) 12:22, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Looks like accidentally doing something someone already asked about is something I do now. :) Jamo62 (talk) 09:08, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

TBA May 2025 seems wrong

So I've noticed that it currently says that Semi-final 1 is TBA May 2025, Semi-final 2 is TBA May 2025 and Grand Final is TBA May 2025. I have two issues with this, that I think are worth discussing.

1) There is no offcial rule, as far as I'm concerned, requiring that the contest takes place in May. It's true that it has taken place in May in the entire ongoing century, so it's expected to be the same for 2025, but we don't know for certain. One of the biggest reasons I have a problem with May, is that Eurovisionworld, which we use in between, suggest 29 April 2025 as a possible date for Semi-Final 1.

2) Writing TBA May 2025 can easily be misunderstood as meaning that the dates for the shows will be announced in May 2025. It's similar to if Greece shared that they were going to announce the artist in December of 2025, then we'd write TBA December 2025 in the Greece column.

For the first one, I think either removing May or adding (expected) to the text is the way to go.

For the second one, I'm kinda hollow at the moment about how to tackle it properly. But I wanted to hear if somebody had a good idea, to a change of concept that could improve this aspect of the page. Thomediter (talk) 12:06, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

On second thought, "TBA" should maybe just be removed alltogether concering the dates in the infobox. So we'd write May 2025 (Expeceted) or 2025 when informing about the show dates? Thomediter (talk) 12:16, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

Agree with your view. I think "TBA" would suffice. The Contest has not always taken place in May and Israel and the Netherlands have holidays in May that are usually taken into account (both countries did not participate in the years that the Contest was held on those holidays in the '70s and '80s). So May is not simply a given. Hhl95 (talk) 13:41, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

If we look at Eurovision's How It Works page, there is a statement that Participants then compete at the Eurovision Song Contest, traditionally held in May. While it's not specifically concrete for 2025, I believe to ignore this would be wrong as well, given that the last time the contest was not held in May was in 1994. I think "May 2025" is a perfectly valid approach to the dates of the shows within the infobox at this stage. Sims2aholic8 (talk) 09:10, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

I would disagree with this, see also my comment above about distinguishing between rules and traditions. I don't think we should take May for granted, based on a tradition. If it was a rule, that would change things. Of course, I think it's not plausible that the Contest will take place in January or September, but a bit earlier, at the end of April, can be very much possible if that suits schedules better. Hhl95 (talk) 08:59, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

I'm also not 100% confident that writing May 2025 is a good choice. It's not a fixed month that the contest is held in. Thomediter (talk) 15:37, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

I get what you're saying with this, however we do have an official source now that says that traditionally the contest is held in May. Of course the exact dates are unknown at this point, but given it's been over three decades now since the last time it wasn't held in May, and given that only two contests in the last forty years were held outside of May, I think we're within the realms of plausibility to state that the contest will almost certainly be held in May again. We may be wrong, but given that the majority of the information within other sections of this article is also provisional, I don't see why we should be bending over backwards to try and disprove something when there's a 99.99% chance that it's right just because there's the tiniest possibility it's not going to be in May. Just like there's a slim possibility that X country might decide not to participate later on, that doesn't mean we shouldn't not include information right now that says they will participate, and I think the same process should be used for the dates as well. Sims2aholic8 (talk) 08:53, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

I think that adding something like "(expected)" at the end, could help this. Just like we do with this. Thomediter (talk) 10:21, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

I don't see what's wrong with just "TBA" though, since we don't know the exact dates anyways. Hhl95 (talk) 09:26, 19 May 2024 (UTC)