Talk:Eurovision Song Contest 2007/Archive 1

Bosnia's entry is in Serbian

Bosnia is a country with three official languages: Bosnian, Serbian and Croatian. This year, the representative is from Banja Luka, Republika Srpska, the majority Serb part of Bosnia, herself a Serb. It's only natural that she sings in Serbian, since the author of the lyrics is Serbian too. A Greek website reported that the song is going to be sung in Bosnian likely out of ignorance (as Bos., Serb., or Croatian sound or/and are the same linguistically), not being aware that this is sensitive in Bosnia. There is nothing wrong with this, however, someone keeps changing this. --Ogidog.

However, Marija is an official representation of Bosnia and Herzegovina, therefore this defeats the purpose of the song being dubbed "Serbian" yet "Bosnian" as Serbians and Croatians in the country are not in the title of the country. Mehicdino 02:27, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Bosniaks changed the name in 1992 so that they would be in the title. Actually Bosnian and Herzegovinian are both pertaining to Serbs, Croats and Bosnian Muslims -- you are welcome to read about that in the article on Bosnia and Herzegovina. Official languages in Bosnia are Serbian, Croatian and Bosnian. Please don't base facts on your own assumptions. --Ogidog

People, I have found concrete proof now that the song is sung in pure Bosnian, therefore making it the Bosnian language. There are minor differences in pronunciation and spelling with Bosnian and non-Cyrillic Serbian. This is all from my father with a major in linguistics, specifically Balkan languages. In Bosnian, you would pronounce and spell "river" as "RIJEKA". In Serbian, you would pronounce and spell the word "REKA". Marija's song title and in the lyrics the word is spelled and pronounced as "RIJEKA". This fairly makes the song in Bosnian. Now we just need some who speaks Serbian to confirm this as "on the paper" proof and it will be solid evidence. Mehicdino 19:58, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Serbian spoken in Bosnia is the same like Bosnian (Bosnian exists from 1992, when Bosnian Muslims renamed the language they speak from Serbo-Croat). The issue is not whether linguistically this is Serbian or Bosnian. "Reka" is the standard for parts of Serbia (where "rijeka" is also used), while Serbian from Bosnia and Montenegro uses "rijeka". Linguistics degrees matter little here (I actually have one for those purposes!). If you read what I wrote above, you would realize that this is not a linguistic but rather a political issue. Language spoken by Serbs in Bosnia and Herzegovina is Serbian. Since Marija is from Repulika Srpska (where Bosnian is not even taught in schools), it's safe to assume that the language of the entry is Serbian -- especially since the person who wrote the lyrics is from Serbia. If you read the article on Serbian language on wikipedia, you'll see that your "proof" that juxtaposes rijeka and reka is actually flawed. Ijekavian (rijeka) and Ekavian (reka) are both standard in Serbian. Also there is no such thing as non-Cyrillic Serbian as, both Bosnian and Croatian can freely be written in Serbian Cyrillic. You should probably leave linguistics to linguists. --Ogidog

Actually that dosnt really prove anything. Using an online translater at: [1], it says river = reka, rijeka for English to Serbian. Greekboy 20:33, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

That online translator would be incorrect Greekboy. Most online translators aren't that detailed to go into minor linguistic differences among the same languages which are affected by the region in which they are spoken in. We need someone who speaks Serbian here or another Bosnian and they will say the same.

Oh, and I do happen to speak all three official languages and can tell you for a fact that there is no linguistic test that can make a difference between Bosnian, Serbian or Croatian in the words for this song! Therefore, please stop the changes! --Ogidog.

That's a pretty interesting claim my friend, especially since there are no three different languages, they are all the same... Mehicdino 01:42, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Actually according to Bosnia and Herzegovina wikipedia page, it says the official languages of the country is Bosnian, Croatian, Serbian. Greekboy 02:11, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

That's right, but the differences between those languages are minor. If you speak "any one of those" languages you can understand the other two perfectly. After the war everything was done after the collapse of Yugoslavia to maintain as much independence and difference racially, culturually, and linguistically so due to those minor differences between the main language due to geographical reasons, they were dubbed three different languages. In Ogidog's case, nobody would ever say that they speak "all three languages" as it's really one language that was spoken throughout Yugoslavia. Marija's song contains clear evidence of the "Bosnian language" making it a song in "Bosnian". Mehicdino 03:17, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

It is my understanding that because the differences between these languages are so minor, the name of the language spoken by a specific individual is determined solely by his or her ethnic affiliation. It follows then that the language of Marija's song should be called Serbian, not on the basis of any linguistic argument, but simply because Marija is ethnically Serbian. Furthermore, because Serbian enjoys equal legal status to Bosnian within the country, it is perfectly legitimate to refer to it as a language that is representative of that country. The name "Bosnian language" itself is controversial, implying that it is not just the language of the Bosnian Muslims, but that of the Bosnians as a whole, which is clearly not the case. Of course, if the song were sung by a Croat or Muslim uttering exactly the same words, the name of the language would have to be adjusted accordingly. ·ΚέκρωΨ· 03:44, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

So you're saying that on the Eurovision 2007 article in the "language" column of the table, the language is based on the singer's ethnicity and not the language in which the song was sung? You are also deeply incorrect for saying Serbian is the official representation of Bosnia and Herzegovina. To put it bluntly, it is the Serbian population that are the "invaders" (not meant harshly) of Bosnia and Herzegovina, as the original Bosnjak population of the country is the true ethnicity of the country. Mehicdino 04:31, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

From a linguistic point of view, the language is Shtokavian; the question of whether to attach the Serbian or Bosnian label to it is a purely political one that rests entirely on the speaker's self-identification. As for the rest of your rant, it is an appalling example of hate speech that doesn't even deserve a reply. According to the version of history taught outside Bosnia, the Muslims are in fact the most recent ethnic group to emerge in the region. ·ΚέκρωΨ· 04:48, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Hate-speech? I presented no hate towards the Serb or Croat or any other ethnicity in Bosnia and Herzegovina. I meant "invaders" as I couldn't find any softer word. Before the Yugoslav breakup all three ethnicities of Yugoslavia had no ethnic tension and were friendly. Bosnia and Herzegovina had a mix of all three ethnicities. During the breakup and INDEPENDENCE of every Yugoslav country, Bosnia and Herzegovina attempted to maintain its own independence just as the other Yugoslav countries by resenting the Serb population as much as possible and holding in the Bosnjak population. Anyways, let's not stray too far into politics then not needed yet focus on the issue at hand. Marija's ethnicity is Serb, she speaks "Bosnian" according to her lyrical work which features minor linguistic difference between Serbian and Bosnian but indeed indicates that the song is indeed written in Bosnian as "on the paper" there technically exists a "Bosnian" language. On the Eurovision 2007 article, a column lists every language for every song. Marija's song was written in Bosnian, so accordingly this would be listed as "Bosnian". Mehicdino 05:22, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

There is no evidence that the language of this song is Bosnian rather than Serbian. Your rijeka/reka example above is extraneous to the argument; it simply demonstrates that the Ijekavian standard of the Serbian language used in Bosnia coincides with Bosnian in a way that the Ekavian of Serbia does not. In other words, rijeka is no less Serbian than reka; the fact that rijeka is the only form used in Bosnian (i.e. by the Bosnian Muslims) is irrelevant. ·ΚέκρωΨ· 05:37, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

You didn't really say much Kekrops but say what I meant. Since the Bosnian Muslim population of the country say the word as "rijeka" and this population ties with the Bosnian LANGUAGE, this would make Marija's song Bosnian. And since you want concrete evidence that "rijeka" is not a Serbian word, I will fetch this for you in a moment. Mehicdino 05:46, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

No, it wouldn't, because a.) rijeka is as much a Serbian (and Croatian) word as it is a Bosnian word; and b.) Marija is not a Bosnian Muslim. The Bosnian Muslims and their language are no more important than the other constituent nations and their languages. You obviously believe that the Bosnian Muslims are the only ones who matter, as the "true ethnicity of the country", and that the rest are "invaders" - who shouldn't even be there in the first place, I'm sure - but you are wrong. ·ΚέκρωΨ· 05:55, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Lyrics of this song are IDENTICAL in all three languages, it only depends what nation do you belong to. I am not accepting any of those three variants of same language, i am speaking Serbo Croatian language, which was an official language in Yugoslavia, and that language was kind of mixture of those three language. But Marija Šestić is declared as Bosnian Serb and she is speaking Serbian language, she finished school in Banja Luka in Serbian Language. Smooth O 13:40, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

But now it's official that lyrics are in Bosnian/Croatian/Serbian language http://www.pbsbih.ba/bheurosong07/v03/tekst_bhs.html Smooth O 13:44, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

I agree, the national broadcaster has the final word. And if they call the language bhs, that should be good enough for us. In any case, it's clear by now that the language cannot be called (just) Bosnian. ·ΚέκρωΨ· 13:48, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

This dispute seems to be going nowhere as it always end up in a "linguistical paradox" between the three Balkan languages. We just dub the language as all three languages it will end the dispute in a fair manner, as all three languages are small branches of the Ekavian language, which we couldn't put as the song's language since that's too much of a linguistical term and an unknown and unpopular one. Putting it as all three languages seems best. Mehicdino 22:40, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Since this has been settled I suggest that this discussion be deleted. It's embarrassing, and a waste of space. Innate 09:22, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

We don't do that. --Djordje D. Bozovic 10:44, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Embarrassing for whom? The Germans have their BMWs and Mercedes cars, the Americans are the world's greatest superpower, and the Bosnians are proud to have a single language with three different names, that is what makes us unique! Balkantropolis 13:00, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

I speak Serbian, and I never heard the word rijeka (I always say reka). However, when I asked my aunt, she said that rijeka is still in fact a Serbian word, and that even people in Montenegro (who speak Serbian as the offical language) tend to use this variant. Unsuspected 02:40, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Reliable sources

I think that we should develop the line of using more reliable sources than 100% tabloid website as oikotimes, that hardly ever delivered any breaking news, other than reprinting it from other websites. The policy of verification link should be first of all to put link to OFFICIAL broadcaster website, news release or information bulletin, and only then using unofficial websites.

Qualification query

I have looked on esctoday.com, and all I found was articles saying that the system was changing so that only the top six counties qualified. Can anyone show me a website which says that the 2006 top ten countries qualify for the final?

• See [2]

ESC 2007 qualification system

In www.eurovision.tv, the official website of the Eurovision Song Contest it is clearly mentioned that "Only the six highest-scoring artists from this year’s (2006) Final are qualified to take part in the 2007 Final."(That leads us to 10 finalists since the 'Big Four' automatically qualify) This information can be found in http://www.eurovision.tv/english/2049.htm near the bottom of the page.

• This one was just the discussion at some point in EBU meetings. At EBU press-conference in Athens it was confirmed that qualification will stay the same, top 10. [3]

Removed section Other Facts

I have removed the section because it was copied directly from the article referenced below. The information was unrelated to ESC 2007 as it contained information about the ESC 2006 voting procedure and other useless facts. Currently very little is known about next year's contest. Loool 11:36, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Serbia and Montenegro

• What about Serbia and Montenegro ?86.207.55.131 21:20, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
  • Given the result of the current referendum, they could both enter! Jess Cully 23:03, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
    • id love to see serbia or montenegro enter. or both. theyr good musicians
      • Serbia and Montenegro are countries, no musicians. --Tyron1 23:28, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
        • I've heard that they're both going to enter in Helsinki --Nathan Waddell
• both RTS and RTCG confirmed to ESCKaz their intended participation. We approached EBU to confirm the status of these 2 countries, whether they should be considered new or returning? and received following responce: "This hypothetical question is difficult to answer. We will just have to wait and see how many countries apply for the participation before the deadline". [4]

Kosovo?

I heard that Kosovo would like to participate next year and also there will be much more strict rules about each country participaetion.(Source:Macedonian newspaper Vest @ www.vest.com.mk

• As, for the time being, Kosovo is neither independent nor an EBU member, we'd best wait before speculating on that one. Jess Cully 17:04, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
  • Kosovo could only enter in 2008. The likeliness is that they will debut with Azerbaijan in 2008 as long sa they can join the EBU by the time of the entry deadline. Nathan Waddell

Conan O'Brian

There are already rumours in Finland, that YLE is interested in making Conan one of the presenters. 159753 14:02, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Won't happen. It'd be as likely for them to put Matti Nykänen as the presenter as Conan O'Brien. --HJV 21:58, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

But Conan O'Brien might do it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.181.214.51 (talk) 04:57, 10 May 2007 (UTC).

doesnt seem likely, but one can always hope ;) --chandler 04:07, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Pull-out?

Why does the map in the aricle show that Israel and The Netherlands probably will pull out? I haven't heard something about it.

The map was produced when it was suspected that those two participants were likely to pull out. These rumours have now vanished, so the map is out of date. 0plusminus0 18:03, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Updated. —Nightstallion (?) 23:38, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Possible debutant countries vs deutant countries

Why is that on other section?My opinion is that Montenegro and Seria will be present in Helsinki.Can anyone suggest something else?

• They will participate alone after Montenegro declared independance. I'd like to see both Serbia and Montenegro in 2007. Nathan Waddell Oh wait, lol, we do !

Finland?

In 2006, Finland presented the first ever hard rock song in Eurovision, and instantly won. What will they do in 2007? Sing traditional "crying songs" from Karelia? JIP | Talk 16:36, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

The map

Italy and Slovakia need colouring magenta on the map. Jess Cully 16:26, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm actually waiting for someone from WikiProject Maps to reply to this request. They might not do anything, an even if they do, it might only be after Kosovo becomes independent. It might be best to wait for these problems to resolve themselves, before we can edit the maps. RedvBlue 15:56, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

I've updated the map and the legend, meanwhile. —Nightstallion (?) 19:50, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Where's the map...Sorry! Nathan Waddell

'Possible Copyright Violation'

Can anyone explain why the article has been replaced with a 'copyright violation' notice? On the given link, I can't find anything that seems to have been in the article. If anyone can prove me wrong, please do so! Thank you! - Lewis R « т · c » 15:48, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

I actually have no idea what's going on there? It's really annoying, hopefully wikipedia sort it out soon... - TF100

I dont care if I wasnt allowed to remove that copyright violation notice, but that is only suppose to be used when most of or the entire page is copyright violation and its not the case in this article. Also, the Oikotimes article posted as proof of copyright violation has nothing to do with any of the information present on the page. If there is a small reference that hasnt been cited, it doesnt mean that the whole page should be blocked. Evilperson 20 21:26, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Austria's in.

ORF just confirmed it, source in German is here. —Nightstallion (?) 15:01, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Kazakhstan?

I think Kazakhstan has broadcasted the contest for some years now. Are they members of EBU? And could enter the contest in 2007? --213.64.150.45 12:01, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

• They are not active members of the EBU, but as a part of Kazakh territory falls into the European broadcasting area, theoretically they could join in the future and enter ESC (but not for 2007). - TF100
• Theoretically they can join, but so far no interest confirmed. National television never broadcasted Eurovision Song Contest.

according to [5], you are wrong, they cannot join. --androl 15:39, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

I hope they get Borat to perform!

Canada

Canada doesnt broadcast the Eurovision Song Contest. Evilperson 20 03:03, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

• I heard that they used to do so in the 80s... but ok. TF100
• No, they have never Broadcasted Eurovision. 209.135.121.21 21:14, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

• I know this isnt Canada, but I dont want to make a new section. Who in the US broadcasts the contest? I watch it on ERT World. If foreign channels are the only ones broadcasting it, should it be considered as a US broadcast. Also Canada with many other countries would fit in as broadcasting. If anyone has any information please let me know. Greekboy

Italy?

What would happen if Italy rejoined the ESC and thus made the Big Four the Big Five? Would the tenth country from last year's final have to go to the qualification round to allow Italy its automatic qualification? —Nightstallion (?) 00:46, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

• If Italy returns,the Eurovision Song Contest would e so complicated:In that cause,the participation of Armenia at ESC is in question,as that country participated at ESC only once.
• If Italy has Big 5 status, the top 10 from last year's final would still qualify automatically, making 15 automatic finalists. There would still be 10 qualifiers from the semi, as there have been plenty of ESCs with 25 participants. Jess Cully 13:44, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

If Italy would not participate and if Serbia and Montenegro participate independently,and Austria and Hungary return,then Chezch Republic,Georgia,Lebanon or another country would be rejected. If Italy doesnt come back as well as Austria and Hungary,and if Serbia,Montenegro,Chezch Republic,Georgia,Lebanon and other country participates,then the last participant of the next competition will be decided with a draw. The final decision for participants of ESC 2007,will be known in December.

Because Italy snubbed ESC for ten years, if they do return in 2007 they'll certainly have to enter the semi-final. The only way they would get 'Big 5' status is by paying the same EBU subscriptions as the Big 4, and that would only be allowed from the second year of their return. Jess Cully 11:31, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Aha, okay. And is there really no way that more than 40 countries can participate? I'd think it would be better if there were more participants, no? —Nightstallion (?) 13:21, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

But I think that Svante Stockselius already promised to Italy a spot in the final,if they ewnter as part of big5.He also said it is his wish to see Italy return.Now with the new government it is more likely Italy to be back.

Actually Italy is a member of the Big 5, as stated in the rules of the Eurovision Song Contest, and therefore would go directly to the final despite having "snubbed" it.

I figured as much. So, what's the deal with the arbitrary cap of 40 countries? What happens if there are more entrants than that? Do some have to concede, or can all participate somehow? —Nightstallion (?) 10:10, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Who knows whats gonna be on Eurovision next year.The deal eventually is to limit the countries in entering the ESC.However,I think that if next year be more countries than 40,then EBU would hopefully change the rules and would probably hold a draw,or having 2 separate semifinals and one big final which only big 4/5 enter and the winner of the edition.Italy Boycotted eurovision so much,in 1993,1994 til 1997,and up til 2007.

Ok, Italy are in 'The Big 5.' It's only 'The Big 4' whilst Italy are not participating. The rules suggest that Italy would automatically qualify. I'd love to see all members of Europe gain access to the EBU and they would probably shortern the automatic qualification for the Final to the Top 5 and 'The Big 4/5.' Nathan Waddell

The voting system,and Russia

I have a question about Russia.I recently watched the 2004 edition,and I saw that Yana Churikova said that now votes the biggest country in the world.However it was unclear for me about the voting:Does all Russia (including Asian part have televoting or only the European part?)

• All of Russia can vote, although in reality the vast majority of votes come from the European part, I should imagine, as it would be around 5 or 6 AM in parts of Asian Russia by the time it came to vote. What interests me more is whether the DOM of France (such as French Polynesia, Guadeloupe, Réunion, French Guiana, Martinique etc etc), who are legally as much a part of France as Paris is, get to vote? -- TF100 18:07, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

• • As long as they are part of the EBU then yes. I think they probably get a say in the French vote. Nathan Waddell

• • • Can not agree with that about Russia. Contest is broadcasted live only in Western Part of territory, and Eastern part views it recorded next day, so they are unable to vote.

Individual Entries in the Eurovision Song Contest 2007

I have a question. Should'nt the box with the individual entries say "FYR Macedonia" instead of "Republic of Macedonia" since that is how the EBU recognises them? Also it is a shorter name to put into the box. Wikiwow12 01:54, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Simple answer-No because thats the name of the country.It doesnt matter how the EBU recognises Macedonia,but thats the name of the country.

Actually to get technical the name is disputed and the UN and EU also know it by FYR Macedonia. 68.37.213.40 17:27, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

It is funny because Yugoslavia does not exist anymore.However Macedonia is recognised from Bulgaria, Russia,Albania,Serbia and all countries under constitutional name Republic of Macedonia-I guess this is the best solution because the Greeks doesnt want only the name Macedonia so Republic of Macedonia will be great choice.I hope this will clear out some time because it gets so upsetting in Macedonia too.

My understanding is that the official international recognised name by the EU, NATO, ect. and the EBU is FYR Macedonia. But the constitutional name is the Republic of Macedonia. But shouldnt we write it as it is recognised by the EBU since this is an EBU event? Wikiwow12 09:28, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Languages Of Bosnia and Herzegovina

It is really a pity that there are Serbian nationalists here at wikipedia. I mean, the song from Bosnia is sung in it's official language, which is Croatian/Bosnian/Serbian. The song does not contain ANY word, that only exists in one of the three versions of the language. So it is Bosnian, Croatian and Serbian - all three, but not just one!

So I don't really get the point, when people change that into "SERBIAN" in this article, since this is a very poor form of nationalism! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.176.40.154 (talk) 15:48, 6 March 2007 (UTC).

It's not nationalism, it's the fact that if sung by a Serb, the song is likely going to be in Serbian. It's a fact. It was in Bosnian last year, and in Croatian the year before. Furthermore, contrary to what you may be saying, there isn't one single national language named Croatian/Bosnian/Serbian in Bosnia and Herzegovina -- there ARE three languages with three names (read the constitution), they are linguistically the same, but politically they're not. There is nothing wrong in a Bosnian entry being sung in Serbian.--Ogidog 00:10, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

It was in English in 2005! Smooth O 11:36, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

It was in English in the ESC, but the song that won the national selection was in Croatian and was called "Zovi" (a far better option for lyrics compared to the retarded and clumsy English version).

I agree with that Smooth O 18:11, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Song will be preformed in Serbian Language, one of three official language in Bosnia and Herzegovina Smooth O 11:28, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

It's interesting to see that the user Greekboy who keeps reverting doesn`t make difference between Bulgarian and Bosnian but claims to be sure which language is used in Bosnian entry. Avala 19:01, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Excuse you. I only reverted the article 3 times for that subject through this WHOLE argument. I stayed clear of it all, since I can't stand ESC arguments. (last year...) I found a reliable source, and I posted it. So stop using my name saying that I'm doing stuff. And for all you reverting back and fourth, you do realize you are breaking the Wikipedia:Three-revert rule. You can get banned for that, as well as the whole article blocked from editing. And I have no clue what you mean by "dosnt make a difference between Bulgaria and Bosnia. Greekboy 20:29, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Greekboy, please stop changing the page. The entry is in Serbian and there's no doubt there. Several people keep reverting this to Serbian, not one person. You have understand that your Oikotimes/ERT source has the wrong information. In Bosnia, you don't need sources to determine this. Please leave the page as is. Thank you. (And if you look at one of your notes with the reverts, you said Bulgarian instead of Bosnian -- since you don't understand the issue, just lay off it). And I don't think Avala made any reverts, so you're addressing the wrong person! Ogidog

I wrote Bulgaria by mistake, because the same day I had reverted a change of the name for the Bulgarian song. Second, as much as you dont like it, ERT is an official source. They get information from all the broadcasters, and write news. They are in no way affiliated with Oikotimes. I only reverted the article 3 times through this whole argument. Yet I am the one being pointted out by Avala. And I was not addressing Avala for the 3 Revert rule. I am addressing EVERYONE. You WILL get banned if someone turns you in. And worse yet the Article will get blocked. We do not want the article to get blocked. It takes 2 weeks+ to get un-blocked. Greekboy 22:03, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

It is indeed official for Greek matters, I don't think it's relevant for Bosnia. The article is only descriptive, and I personally think that the author wasn't aware that there are more than one languages in BH. Furthermore, even official sources may be wrong. The Bosnian page is cryptic on pupose and they don't mention the language -- actually the MP3 for download is in BHS which stands for Bosnian/Croatian/Serbian. They want to avoid to list the language. This is why one needs to use logic. Likely, if you asked Marija or Aleksandra Milutinovic what language they spoke, the would say Serbian, what's more, Bosnian is not even taught in Banja Luka schools.

Let's clear this. Bosnian entry this year will be preformed in Serbian language, because Marija Šestić is Bosnian Serb from Banja Luka and she speaks and sing in Serbian, also song is written by Aleksandra Milutinović (she is from Serbia, also speaks Serbian). I know that Bosnian, Serbian and Croatian are basicaly same language (i live in Bosnia and Herzegovina), but it must stand some language, in this case it is Serbian. I do not like either this separation of languages in three names, but it's official and we must accept it. I am official Serbo-Croatian language speaker, as you can see on my profile page, and it's not official language name any more. It's not nationalism or something similar, it's fact, so please don't change it. Smooth O 19:48, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

As YLE is perhaps slightly more official than ERT, I suggest to change the language to "original" [6]. Now, honestly, we have a Serbian young lady singing a song written by an author from Serbia and we can't make up our mind as to what language it is in - well fine let's just call the language "original". --Dzordzm 14:49, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

No, she is singing in Serbian. There is a political movement that wants us to assume that all languages in Bosnia are Bosnian until proven otherwise, which is ridiculous. Bosnian is not even a majority language in Bosnia.

This is getting kinda ridiculous. Bosnia and Herzegovina is represented by a Serbian singer, singing a song composed and written by an author from Serbia and some people can't get over the fact that she is "perhaps" singing in Serbian language, one of the official languages in the whole of Bosnia and Herzegovina. Bosnian broadcaster has not indicated the language and YLE refers to it as "original". I'm afraid we do have to go by common sense here. --Dzordzm 07:05, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Has anyone of you heard Marija saying she sings in Serbian? Since official sources (her website) claim the song to be sung in "bhs" (bosanski/hrvatski/srpski) (=Bosnian/Croatian/Serbian) I think they would have to know better than single users here, since I think we can take an official statement rather as a fact than claims of some users. DannyLibre 18:29, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Agreed - though please note that that website only went online yesterday. (P.S. Of course, the whole thing is PC BS, but we should go according to the official website.) --Dzordzm 06:04, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

According to an interview with ESC Today Marija says "Bosnian version" and she doesn't say anything about the song being in serbian. Unless someone can give an actuall source where her saying that she sings in serbian it should either be Bosnian or BHS. I will provide a link to the video interview as soon as ESC today is up again. EDIT: Here is the link http://www.esctoday.com/news/read/8581

map

It would be good if someone fixed the map to reflect the fact that Serbia and Montenegro are now separate countries. --Dzordzm 01:50, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

I deleted it, as long as it's fixed. 137.226.135.153 14:02, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

I fixed the map to reflect Serbia and Montenegro as separate countries. Greekboy 17:31, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

You did it a little bit wrong. You placed Pljevlja within Serbia; the boundary should go just a little bit northwards. :p --Djordje D. Bozovic 11:22, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

There's another thing to fix: the European part of Turkey is already in the final:P Mb731 15:47, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

I will fix it again, but what do you mean European part of Turkey? There is only 1 Turkey. Greekboy 17:28, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Indeed, user Mb731 is right - you painted a part of Turkey green and the rest of the country red. :D --Djordje D. Bozovic 17:31, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, I'm not a native speaker of English, so forgive my mistakes =)) I meant that part of the one and only Turkey which borders Bulgaria to the northwest :P Mb731 17:40, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Alright it is fixed. Feel free to let me know of any other mistakes. Greekboy 18:47, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

The map needs a different colour system, changing blue since Blue is not suppose to be used in maps (as it represents water) Evilperson 20 02:52, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Alright. I re-uploaded a new version of the map with purple substituting blue. Greekboy 03:25, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Eurovision 2008

I think that we should put a link so to make a page aout the next year contest,as something for example the dates are known.I wrote an article,and someone deleted it.Or can you suggest what can we do?

UK cock-up!

It was pretty embarrassing but we nearly had Cyndi going to Helsinki because, Terry and Fearne messed it up!! Anyway Scooch is typically Eurovision, well for us lately anyway... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.35.121.138 (talk) 15:57, 19 March 2007 (UTC).

Most of these shows are fixed anyway. Notice how Cyndi wasn't happy at all when she heard her name? Looks strange to me.

Bosnia's ethnic key

There seems to be a tacit agreement on the ethnic rotation of Bosnia's Eurovision entries, much like its presidency. According to this agreement, it is the Serbs' turn this year. I have found a couple of references to this on Eurovision fan sites.[7][8] Does anyone have anything more substantial on this? ·ΚέκρωΨ· 05:11, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

This will never be much more than speculation and original research. Yes they obviously do take care of the ethnic key but it was never official policy and you won't find anything in credible sources. --Dzordzm 06:26, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Well as far as i know,thats true,it is Serbs turn to send candidate to Eurovision(we remember in 2002 that was Maja Tatic,and immediately after that was Croats turn(Mija Martina) and of course in 2004 that was Deen.Again in 2005 was Croats turn,in 2006 Bosniac turn and now in 2007 Serbs turn to send the performer.I think next year will be some Croat or Bosniac.

This is not a rule, that's coincidence (officialy, but we are not stupid). That's biggest problem here in Bosnia and Herzegovina. If you don't use ethnic key it's a problem. Smooth O 09:50, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Dates

I've removed the '2007-07-12' date from the subtitles, and simplified them to just final and semi-final. I don't think that date format is suggested by the Wikipedia manual of style, nor is it common in UK English or ROI English (someone correct me if Malta uses it).

I appreciate the other Eurovision pages use that format too. I'll gladly change them all if no one objects. Dmn € Դմն 18:46, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

This is a little late, but if you set your preferred date format in your user preferences, that date format will automatically be converted for you. Vashti 22:50, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Broadcasting of the show

As I saw,recently,it is written that the show will be broadcast in Costa Rica via TVE satellite channel.But can we make more specific,can that mean that all Latin America can watch Eurovision Song Contest,since TVE's satellite signal is quite strong and it usually can be seen everywhere in all Central and South America,including Mexico.

Serbia and Montenegro

Isn't it funny that Serbia is represented by a Turkish-origin woman (Marija Serifovic) and Montenegro by a Scotsman (Stevan Faddy)? ;D --PaxEquilibrium 15:02, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Her grandfather has Turkish blood, and that's why her last name is Šerifović. She said that on Turkish TV http://www.kurir-info.co.yu/arhiva/2007/april/03/ST-03-03042007.shtml That is common Muslim last name in Bosnia and Herzegovina. Also some other Serbs have similar last names because Serbia was under Ottoman empire. I don't know about Stevan. Smooth O 20:34, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Serifovic is her mother's surname, not father's. --PaxEquilibrium 09:55, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Problems with Eurovision winners link

[edit] Problem with Eurovision winners link It seems that somebody is having the time of his life by spreading farcical information on several Eurovision winners. As I am French and try to get information for the French Wikipedia Eurovision winners section, I am a bit annoyed. At first, I noticed the joke on the Linda Martin link where she is described as "heavily botoxed", at first I was hugely amused (although I have no idea how she looks) but thought administrators were seeing to that because in the discussion page, there was a reminder of how they wanted the article. Then it started to occur to me that while creating some links for the French pages, I had discarded information that sounded strange or out of place and yesterday I realized that there is somebody having fun. I think all winners links should be looked at by administrators especially Linda Martin, Bobbysocks and the clairvoyant story, Udo Jürgens described as a womanizer (perhaps it's true but on a Wikipedia page, it does not sound serious) and his "family links", Massiel's birthdate and place and strange "political" biography, I don't think the Spanish link mentions it and perhaps Teddy Scholten or I can't remember who is supposed to have a hit by "recording instrumental versions of The Shadows' hit. Consequently, I'm not sure I can rely on the English version to create links for the French version. Something like "heavily botoxed" has no consequence because you know immediately it's a joke but more troublesome are other information that do not sound farcical and might be repeated and translated on other links out of good faith.

Kindest regards,

P.R —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 130.79.228.47 (talk) 06:37, 18 April 2007 (UTC).

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Eurovision_Song_Contest"

FYR Macedonia Bi-Lingual

Just so you all know, i updated the Semi-Final table with the Macedonian's Song's Languages as today it was announced that it would be sung in Macedonian and English on esctoday.com Celticfan383 06:53, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

On a further note, I noticed you changed the spelling of her name. I changed it back to how it was. That is how it appears on the official CD, and how she will participate in ESC. Greekboy 15:31, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Really? I could've sworn it's shown as just Karolina in the SF and F. Shall we leave it at Karolina? Celticfan383 15:33, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

She will spell her last name with a ch. I guess for easier pronunciation. Here is the back cover [9] Greekboy 15:50, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

I suppose then they couldn't get the proper spelling in that font, lol ! I know it's for easier pronounciation, but to make it even easier and to stop arguments should we put it as 'Karolina' ? Celticfan383 15:58, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Well the ESC people can get fonts. So I don't think thats the problem. Usually what is on the CD is what the participation will be. Maybe we need an outside opinion on this one. I would prefer someone not 'attached' to the entry to be un-biased. Not a big issue, but just minor disagreement. :) Greekboy 16:03, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

I agree, but surely it should be Karolina. Can we have an outside opinion please ? Celticfan383 16:31, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Big4Who

Who are the "Big 4"? Why are they not on the Map thing either?

United Kingdom
France
Spain
Germany
These are the 4 main financial providers for the Eurovision Song Contest and the European Broadcasting Union (EBU). They are on the map and under 2006 qualifiers (green). For more information see this link -- Chris as I am Chris 16:41, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

In additional information, if Italy re-entered the contest, which they may do very soon, the Big 4 would become the Big 5, as under the money needed to participate rules, Italy would become one of the biggest payers into the contest ¡иąтнąи! | Talk | Email| 18:59, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks

You guys made my day tonight. I was updating the Final List while it was being announced and when I was going to save I had a problem with my connection. When I got it back, I saw that someone had already updated the list. It made me feel that I am not alone. Thank you. --Nauki 22:04, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

I was also gonna do it lol, i got beaten to it...! ¡иąтнąи! | Talk | Email| 18:59, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Exact Semi-Final Results

Does anyone know when the exact results from the semi-final will be published? I mean, which country in the semi-final got the most votes, who got second most votes, etc.

Thanks!

DJ Dritt 13:35, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

After final i think Smooth O 17:12, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

It will be released after the Final with the Final results table. Then all the Easten Europe vs Western Europe can hopefully be settled...¡иąтнąи! | Talk | Email| 18:57, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Polls

Are there any polls or something?

I hear they're mass-betting on who will win, and the amount of interest is larger for those who "probably won't pass" and very little for the "winning ones"... --PaxEquilibrium 00:29, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Voting System

This year, more than other years the Eurovision Song Contest was biased by the fact that the votes all returned to countries that come from the Eastern block. This is the first time that is evident so much that all viewers of the show knew what had happened. There were a total of ten qualifiers as required. Almost all countries (instead Turkey) make part of the Eastern block. Countries like Cyprus, Malta, Netherlands, Denmark, Andorra, Poland, Austria and also Switzerland (this country was predicted to be the winner of this year's edition) didn't reach to qualify.

As seen from the leading Eurovision fan website, esctoday.com, the Iceland singer stated that he has no chance to compete again in the Eurovision because first thought that anyone can win this year's contest but doubts cropped because of the eastern european dominance. Some countries like Cyprus and Switzerland are threating to withdrew from the competition while the Maltese Head of Delegation, Robert Abela said that if the EBU does not do anything there will be a chance that they will halt their Eurovision experience for a year until something suitable will be adapted.

Chrisportelli 07:11, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Not true. German watchblog bildblog.de made a recount counting only the votes of western countries. It turned out that the first five would have been the same, had only western european countries voted. This includes Serbia winning. Maybe it's time to consider that the eastern european countries just sent better songs this year.

• Obvously having more free time than I should, I have calculated what would happen if only certain countries had right to vote. I considered every country east of Finland-Germany-Austria-Italy (except Greece) to be Eastern European - please do not take offense or debate this, it's just a provisional thing... Also, I didn't put Israel anywhere, as I don't think it can be considered either Western or Eastern European country.

Position	EU-151	EU-272	Western Europe3	Eastern Europe4	Actual vote
1st Place	Turkey	Serbia	Serbia	Serbia	Serbia
2nd Place	Serbia	Ukraine	Turkey	Russia	Ukraine
3rd Place	Ukraine	Russia	Ukraine	Ukraine	Russia
4th Place	Bulgaria	Bulgaria	Hungary	Belarus	Turkey
5th Place	Armenia	Turkey	Bulgaria	Bulgaria	Bulgaria
3rd last	FYR Macedonia	United Kingdom	France	Ireland	France
2nd last	France*	France	FYR Macedonia	United Kingdom*	United Kingdom
Last Place	Ireland*	Ireland*	Ireland*	Sweden*	Ireland

1 - EU-15 countries except Italy and Luxembourg, who do not participate.
2 - EU-27 countries except Italy, Luxembourg and Slovakia, who do not participate.
3 - Andorra, Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Iceland, Ireland, Malta, Norway, Portugal, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, The Netherlands, United Kingdom.
4 - Albania, Armenia, Belarus, Bosnia, Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Estonia, FYR Macedonia, Georgia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Moldova, Montenegro, Poland, Romania, Russia, Serbia, Slovenia, Turkey, Ukraine.
(*) - Nil points. Meelosh 17:52, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

This table does not show the fact that only 7 Western European nations had acts that could be voted for in the final (Greece is geographically in Eastern Europe). Eastern Europe had 17. Over twice as many. You can't vote for a nation's act if it's not competing in the final. Eastern European acts therefore had a greater statistical chance of picking up votes simply by showing up at the final. The reason why - each country has to list a total of 10 votes (1 to 8, then 10 and 12). With only 7 Western European acts competing, 3 alotted votes would have to go to Eastern Europe regardless if that country alotted every single one of its vote to a Western European country. Hence three Eastern European countries would each time be guaranteed to pick up votes, from either East or West, regardless of their voting order. If you want a fairer system, there should be 17 Western European countries in the final to match the 17 Eastern European countries or only 7 Eastern European countries to match the 7 Western European entries in the final, and you and I both know that's not going to happen under current Eurovision rules. MegX 01:58, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

What would really make it a lot fairer is if they scrap the 'Big Four' idea and make UK, Germany, Spain and France (note these are all Western European countries) compete in the Semi-final. The majority of people are not going to vote for these countries, as long as it is written into the rules that they can technically cheat every year. ~~ Peteb16 09:21, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

You do know that the Big Four practically finance the competition, don't you? Will ^{(We're flying the flag all over the world)} 14:19, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Of course, but I don't see why that should interfere with the rules of the contest. It's a song contest, Countries should progress into the final based on the merit of their songs not on the wealth of the country's broadcasters. Plus, if things carry on as they are, I suspect these countries may realise that it may not make financial sense to pile money into a competition they're unlikely to win. ~~ Peteb16 14:59, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

They actually finance the EBU, not the competition itself - host broadcaster pays for this, by rule with help of sponsors and local government. Also, I do believe it's fair to have some kind of advantage if you're one of the biggest contributors, and thus, have no problem whatsoever with Big 4 rule. However, Peteb16 is right when saying it can create animosity and sense of injustice - so, perhaps, it could be beneficial to Big 4 not to use their earned right to compete in the final only. Their call, as far as I'm concerned. Also, these financial contributions are to EBU, not ESC, and EBU is not only about ESC - which means that this funding is not in danger of being cancelled. Meelosh 17:50, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Well, I could've made another table showing that the semi-final Top 5 would have been more or less the same if only Western European countries voted. Actually, Western vote would exclude Belarus with their James-Bond-wannabe song, but include your typical Eastern country - Bulgaria. (Also, Greece really cannot be considered Eastern European - geographically, it's Southern European country, but is considered to be Western due tu cultural and economic ties to the west. It would be like putting Finland in the east because Poland is actually on their west). The fact remains that Portugal, Denmark, Poland and Iceland would have been in the final (instead of Belarus, Georgia, FYROM and Moldova), have only the western countries voted. EU-27 would have included only Andorra and Iceland.

I don't really understand why it would be fair to match the equal number of entries from the west and from the east? Until the 90's, Yugoslavia was the only eastern country to participate in the ESC, however, it still won. Even today, votes from the west would have put Serbia in the first place, and you don't get that by giving out 1, 2 or 3 leftover points. And, actually, there are 24 eastern and 17 western countries, so eastern countries would have to eliminate more by default, that doesn't seem very fair. Finally, if you think that eastern vote is unfair, this wouldn't have solved anything, since there would be quite enough eastern countries in the final (either 7, 12 or 17) in order for one of them to necessarily win.

Indulge this - East cares about ESC a lot and sends the best they have. I know for a fact that several countries in the east have really strong national competitions and that the artists selected to represent their countries are by rule among top 10 performers in their country. And who do the British send? I'm sure we all know (and like) British music far better than Serbian and that this country gave dozens if not hundreds of world-class performers and superstars. But where are they? If they send their third-rate band (and a third rate song), don't expect it to beat east's top of the line - they/we are not that hopeless.

However, I do believe that 50-50 vote by jury and televote is a nice proposal. Serbian national competition is like this, and I find it a good filter for songs that are too ethnic, trashy and could be popular only in the national level - and this could all apply on ESC (Ukraine coming 2nd is a pretty nice example of what would not happen). But would that stop these allegations, except if juries voted only for the western nations? Erecting a kind of iron curtain between the west and the east would just create animosity and strenghten the existing voting blocks. But even with them, only the song recognized by the west and the east stands a chance of winning - just look at points that Serbia received. Yes, Turkey is more or less guaranteed Top-15, Greece and Cyprus have 12 points to begin with, Balkan and ex-USSR countries are likely to get at least 6 points from all of their neighbours, as well as the Nordic countries are - but that does not come nearly close to qualifying for the final, let alone winning the competition or getting into Top 5. Meelosh 11:12, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Meelosh, "I don't really understand why it would be fair to match the equal number of entries from the west and from the east?" I was just making a point that the exercise in which side of Europe could be fairly compared would be if there was an equal number of acts from both Eastern and Western Europe. If there was an act from Western Europe which wasn't at this final but was in a hypothetically alternate one, whose to know that it couldn't have altered the voting and thus final outcome? Certainly if there were more than 10 acts, as I've mentioned with the current voting system set-up, the odds would be reduced considerably. Andorra, Switzerland, and Denmark both were quoted before the semi-final at having a good chance of actually winning it but didn't. I wasn't surprised that the audience booed the semi-final result btw. Again it is difficult to compare what would have happened because as it eventuated history took a different course. This is not to say that Serbia didn't have a great song because it did. Probably one of the best entries in a long time. Greece btw has a long history of giving most of it votes to Cyprus and Balkan countries in previous Eurovisions. Again that bloc voting thing. And I'm with you on the United Kingdom statement. Terrible song rehashing a tired idea. MegX 03:47, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

I feel compelled to add to this discussion one more item for the debate. If you study the votes from some Western Europe countries, you see that Spain has been giving 12 points to Romania for three years, at least, and Germany has been giving 12 to Turkey for a few more years. The immigrants living in Western Europe who come from those countries vote for their countries of origin, and that "invalids" the rule that keeps you from voting for your own country. Then, of course Eastern Countries would have filled top positions if only Western countrie shad voted, because Eastern people living in Western Europe vote for them. Besides the fact that there may be some more sympathy for the songs of the Slavic Countries in those nations, we must consider that people in Eastern Europe are widely spread around their neighbouring countries. Hence, there are many Russian people in Ukraine, Belarus... Many Serbian people in Croatia, and so on. I do not mean that this is bad. Of course those people love their countries and want to express it voting for them in the ESC. But that makes the voting system very unfair for performers. There were songs that, I think, deserved to be in the Final Round, such as "Salvem el món", from Andorra. It was a brand new style for the ESC, and it would have refreshed its image. But there are not many immigrants from Andorra anywhere aruond Europe, so this country can never collect the support of its own people. But, I must say, that I felt happy about Serbia's victory. It was my personal choice. But I also consider that Ukraine did not deserve the second place. There were many unfair situations this year, mainly in the Semi-Final Round. I do not think that many of the Slavic and Balkanic songs that made their way to the Final deserved it more than Andorra, Malta or Cyprus, for instance. And by the way, this is another example of why the voting system should be modified. The 12 points exchange between Greece and Cyprus is getting sort of shamefully blatant. EuroFerni, June 1, 2007

How will the votes be presented?

Will the votes be presented in the same way as last year (1-7 automatically, then the spokeperson says 8, 10 and 12) or something different? In my opinion, spokeperson should read votes 6 and 7 too, it isn't boring to me. In the new way, it's hard to keep the track of the score table. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Bosco adventure (talk • contribs) 07:31, 12 May 2007 (UTC).

From what I understand, they only read the top votes to reduce the length of the show. See Voting_at_the_Eurovision_Song_Contest. Can you imagine 240 votes read individually, or... (how many countries) x (all mentioning each other). That's why it's reduced. And also why there's now the semi-final. Westleyd 23:54, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Colors in map - I'm getting blind

A map is very useful, but with this colors you get blind, they are much too bright. Those who are in the finale should have more satiation, the others should have less, also the water. The first map is obsolete to me. Could this be changed, please... --Abe Lincoln 18:20, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Points reps

What's the name of the Swedish points presenter guy? Lady BlahDeBlah 21:55, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

André Pops —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Xhandler (talk • contribs) 22:07, 12 May 2007 (UTC).

His name is André Pops, he is a famous programleader of a show called "Lilla sportspegeln" in Sweden. Here is a link for one of his performances: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKay5pr4i_A&mode=related&search=

Bloc voting

Is anyone going to make a mention of the bloc voting? It'd need to be carefully worded, but I think the Eastern European/Baltic/Scandinavian voting blocs warrant a mention. Anyone else agree, or am I just being sour? Hawker Typhoon 22:44, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

It definitely should be mentioned in the article. --Emx 22:46, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

I'd leave it out - it's not exactly news. And I'm still convinced it's not entirely politics, but more similar tastes and cultural backgrounds.87.189.210.238 23:50, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

I think its worth a mention. Its the cause of a lot of complaints from Western-European countries. Whether the complaints are "correct" or not. It is something worth mentioning. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.83.254.201 (talk) 17:26, 13 May 2007 (UTC).

I agree that it's similar tastes - Romania & Moldova for example. But could we link to where "Regional block voting" is mentioned on the overall Voting_at_the_Eurovision_Song_Contest page, then update that section to include this year's honorable mentions? Westleyd 23:58, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

I hate the bloc voting, I'm not saying the Serbian song wasn't bad, it was good. But if it had been lets say Portugal who had it... It probably wouldn't have won, right? Thx 2 .fi .is .no .dk for Sweden points HEHE --chandler 00:29, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

If it's mentioned, it needs to be pointed out that this has been going on for long, it's not something that was invented by Eastern European countries. Here in Sweden, you hear people saying that these countries are more or less destroying the whole thing with bloc voting, while we ourselves have been gladly accepting high scores from the other Scandinavian countries for as long as I can remember.

My personal opinion is that much of this is coming from being bad losers, and that there's also a pinch of looking down on what is still perceived as 'Europe B': "stupid poor dirty drunk backward farmers who won't vote for the same ABBA rip off we're sending every year!" Sorry for the rant, but this attitude is really, really getting on my nerves. The Legend of Julie Egbert 20:34, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

what I find interesting is the all other 5 former Yugoslavs voted for Serbia. Kudos to them for recognising a great song despite everything that has happened in the past. People are strong, much braver than their leaders.
Parrisia 20:56, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

The voting in this particular contest appears to have been glaringly and seriously flawed, as it appears to be based on voting blocks, rather than merit. It is noticeable how Norway and Denmark voted for Sweden and the Balkan states all voted for one another, by way of two examples. The whole thing also appears to have been hijacked by the East Europeans, who occupy the top 17 positions. In the bottom seven positions, 6 (six) are West European countries. This speaks for itself. To reduce this bias, countries should not only be barred for voting for themselves, but also barred from voting for neighbouring countries.

Nothing to do with sore losers (I'm neither from Western or Eastern Europe). Bloc voting has been an increasingly serious problem for the Eurovision format and this has been mentioned for years on television, mockingly so by commentator Terry Wogan, so it's not a new thing. Since the breakup of the Soviet Union and Yugoslavia, the voting patterns however have shifted mostly to Eastern Europe. This can easily be demonstrated by viewing the voting tallys. The last seven positions on this years voting table (with the exception of Lithuania) are occupied by Western nations. Unheard of in the history of Eurovision. While those in Serbia and many other Eastern European countries may rejoice, it's long term effect will ultimately stiffle the contest and kill the concept, which was about uniting Europe, not dividing it. MegX 03:19, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Whoever says there is no bloc voting is such a hypocrit. Just look at Turkey who finished what, 4th? With a hideous song and performance. They have been receiving high points every year because Turkish people have emigrated all over, definitely not because they are good. Look at Germany's voting: every single year they have been giving them 12 points, except last year which was "only" 10. Scandinavian countries might have been bloc voting all the time, but not to this degree and it had no big effect on the show, but because Eastern countries seriously outnumber them, the problem has become huge, and with the additions of all those small countries even farther to the east (what' next, Japan?), things will get worse. Look at that nice color map, the red is all on the right side of the map! This is not about sore losers, it'a all about eastern countries voting themeselves. Even the western countries voted them, because probably they are the only ones voting (the emigrates living in the west). Bring back the juries and this is sooo worth mentioning in the article as it has reached its zenith this year. Dollvalley 08:11, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Why do we let countries in the far west, like Ireland and Iceland, participate? What's next, Canada? The Legend of Julie Egbert 23:27, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Iceland is a European country, as is Ireland - Ireland use the Euro, and Iceland isn't that far west of the UK. Will ^{(We're flying the flag all over the world)} 23:31, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Yes, they're European. Just as European as Georgia and Armenia, which was the point I was trying to make. The Legend of Julie Egbert 11:50, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Since when are Georgia and Armenia European countries? and then, just AS European as Ireland and Iceland??? hahhaha, oh dear. Well when I studies geography at school in the 80s Ireland and Iceland were, guess what? European countries. We had never heard of Armenia and Georgia as being European countries. Aren't you a bit biased miss legend whatever!

The fact is, bloc voting has taken a huge surge since Yugoslavia and the USSR fragmented. Because Yugoslavia and Russia are effectively six and twelve countries, at least 20% of their votes will be Bloc votes. Will ^{(We're flying the flag all over the world)} 14:19, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

I don't think anyone's denying this. Several groups of countries are obviously voting for each other, and this is mentioned in the article. I still think this had a minor effect on the final outcome, though. There's an interesting chart a bit up on this talk page, showing that if you only count Western European votes, the Top 5 remains the same.

Anyway, I have no problem with people who may think it had more than a minor effect. I do however have a problem with people who use this discussion to make general anti-Eastern Europe comments, as I felt Dollvalley did above. Hence my sarcastic remark. The Legend of Julie Egbert 19:14, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Oh please put a lid on it, I did not make anti->eastern remarks, maybe you are the one who feels they are dirt-poor as you put it. I feel that they are the ones submitting some of the best songs, but they also submit supercrap and they still end up in the final because of blocvoting, and because the number of eastern europe countries is growing in the contest they have a much bigger upper hand. there is no denying this. I am personally happy they are using the contest to get exposition and awareness in the world, altho I am sure that is not their intention. They want to win, they want neighbors to win. That is the worst kind of voting possible and it is plain WRONG. I fear i am the only one voting what I think was the best song.

They are not being fair at all. And might I point out that the contest is what it is thanks to the biggest contributors financial-wise, and the eastern countries are making their best to make them lose interest and make this the Eastern Eurovision Song Contest.Dollvalley 09:50, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

The table does not show the fact that only 7 Western European nations had acts that could be voted for in the final (Greece is geographically in Eastern Europe). Eastern Europe had 17. Over twice as many. You can't vote for a nation's act if it's not competing in the final. Eastern European acts therefore had a greater statistical chance of picking up votes simply by showing up at the final. The reason why - each country has to list a total of 10 votes (1 to 8, then 10 and 12). With only 7 Western European acts competing, 3 alotted votes would have to go to Eastern Europe regardless if that country alotted every single one of its vote to a Western European country. Hence three Eastern European countries would each time be guaranteed to pick up votes, from either East or West, regardless of their voting order. If you want a fairer system, there should be 17 Western European countries in the final to match the 17 Eastern European countries or only 7 Eastern European countries to match the 7 Western European entries in the final, and you and I both know that's not going to happen under current Eurovision rules. MegX 01:58, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

I must say, that sometimes we really cooperate when voting, but it is not the only reason. Let's examin the Balkan peninsula. I'm a Bulgarian. Bulgarians claim that Macedonia is Bulgarian and if Macedonians start to show that they are true Bulgarians we will always vote for them with 12 points. The people in Cyprus do not have this problem, because they are Greeks, and it's the smae with Moldova and Romania :) Serbia and Montenegro were really close too, Macedoians and Serbs too. But then there comes something strange... Bulgarians and Greeks have never been close, but united in their voting /maybe because former yougoslav republics united/. Serbs and Croats hate each other /form what i know/, but Croats gave Serbia 12 points.... Things are just strange. Maybe we are trying to get over our past :/ However, even when over 10% of Bulgarian population are Turks, all Balkan nations have negative oppinion about Turks /they rulled us for a long period/... Therefore there weren't many votes from our countries. However, the Turkish song was my favourite :) and i must say, that most of our popular songs in the 2000s are stolen from Serbians, but we didn't gave them 12 points ... see how complicated it is? . And at the end of all that... it's your fault that everything is like that. If Western Europeans had helped us earlier there wouldn't be countries like Cyprus, Macedonia, Bosna and Herz. or Moldova nowadays! And there wouldn't have been Bulgarian minorities in Greece, Romania, Serbia, Ukraine, or Albanian in Macedonia, Hungarians in Romania, Turks in Bulgaria... (82.199.193.217 20:30, 15 May 2007 (UTC)yavor)

Semi final points

I don't see a reference to that the points from the semi final have been official. The Eurovision page is terrible though, impossible to find anything there. In a way, it's amazing things like this almost come first on Wikipedia. :) - Jetro 23:01, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Why was Finland upset over Russian votes?

So, I'm watching the show online from here in the states, and I don't know what all the fuss was about when Russia would get "boo"d for 12 point votes. I thought there was a comment from one of the countries giving results about a hockey game? I know they were in a hockey stadium, but is there anything more to it? From the States, I don't hear nearly enough about all of Europe's political/social conflicts, mostly just those affecting ... well, the Big4. Westleyd 23:42, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Eastern Europe is still recovering from War Time Europe, especially the Cold War, so much of East Europe vote for neighbours and the so called Bear, Russia to keep the peace. Generally, Northern and Western Europe are unhappy as at present "Block Voting" is taking place. -- Chris as I am Chris 00:15, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Well they boo'd that the "east-bloc" only votes for the east-bloc, and they have done that since they joined the competition. Think it was the same thing the last time it was hold in a west/north-bloc country. For ex. Slovenia gave Serbia, Bosnia and Macedonia 12-10-8 points (don't remember the order of the points for each country though)... Its probably because so many Serbs, Bosnians etc. live in other parts of Fr. Yugoslavia. Same thing with most of the Soviet states. --chandler 00:34, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

I believe Finland won against Russia in hockey and finns were upset that Russia had more points then Finland, but maybe I'm wrong. DVoit 03:08, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Because their song sucked? No way it deserved 12 points from anyone!  Grue  07:09, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Many finns have still negative feelings about Russia, especially now because of the Bronze Soldier of Tallinn -thing. I was surprised when Estonia gave 12 points to Russia. People also didn't like when many ex-soviet states gave all the highest points to Russia and neighboring countries. I'm finn myself. 62.78.227.229 08:22, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

You are forgetting that Estonia has a large russian minority DVoit 10:30, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Yes its the same with ex-soviet states and Yugoslavian, they're very spread out... which gives them a big, big advance, Is almost as if every country split up in 5-10 parts... they would get votes from eachother too —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Xhandler (talk • contribs) 10:00, 13 May 2007 (UTC).

In fact, as a Finn I guess that the booing is because of the recent situation in Estonia, where the authorities of Estonia decided to move a statue commemorating russian soldiers. Many Finns think that Russia has reacted in an inapproppriate and perhaps imperialistic way, although there are many who also think that Estonia did not handle the statue issue very appropriately either. This is just one link that gives some insight on this unfortunate development http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article1763607.ece Sunherd , 14:57, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

trivia - Lordi

I can't find any precise info on previous running orders, but isn't it the case that Lordi's (last year's winners) opening the show is unusual? I don't remember it having happened before. Anyone know/remember? 82.13.83.244 23:56, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

No, If I remember correctly the previous years winners always open with their winning song.

Laconia 00:00, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

heh, ok, maybe it's just that Lordi has been the most memorable participant for some time 82.13.83.244 00:08, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Scoreboard

The scoreboard needs some major work. Please see Eurovision 2006 for an example. All these have to look alike, as it is part of Wikipedia:WikiProject Eurovision. Can someone fix the 2007 one? Greekboy 06:34, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

don't know if someone is updating... but here's a complete score sheet http://www.eurovision.tv/addons/scoreboards/2007/final.html --chandler 07:00, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

I spent a lot of time converting the HTML table to 'Wikitable' CSS code yesterday, this should be the norm. Since then the scores have been updated, but someone has reordered all the countries alphabetically. Whether this should be done for all previous years should be decided on concensus, but the HTML is definately unecessary and adds about 20,000 characters to each article. ~~ Peteb16 10:08, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Because it's much more easy just to copy in all the scores from http://www.eurovision.tv/addons/scoreboards/2007/final.html I put them in the order shown there. --chandler 12:27, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Makes sense, but does everyone else agree and should we do this for all the tables? ~~ Peteb16 14:09, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

No. It should be ordered by running order, then the draw for voting. They did the draw for a reason, and since it is the scoreboard, I think it should be in it. Greekboy 16:45, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

I think it should be ordered by the voting order (from Montenegro to Hungary) not alphabetical. Mb731 17:25, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

England =22?

I might be wrong but wasn't England joint 22nd with France? It's down at the moment that France was 22nd and England was 23rd. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.132.199.219 (talk) 11:59, 13 May 2007 (UTC).

no look here http://www.eurovision.tv/addons/scoreboards/2007/final.html it states it clear... --chandler 12:18, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Most likely because France was voted for by more countries than the UK. ~~ Peteb16 14:11, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

No Moldovan spokesperson?

Who was the Moldovan presenter? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.217.94.191 (talk) 12:44, 13 May 2007 (UTC).

There may not have been a Moldovan presenter. Along with Albania, Armenia and Georgia, Moldova is not listed to have had a commentator for the contest this year. This is not a rare occurrence at all. Often the countries that do not wish to pay for their own commentary use other broadcasters' instead, such as the BBC.

Lunarwhisper 22:17, 13 May 2007 (GMT)

Wrong flag for winners

Did anyone notice that the interactive flag used when Serbia was singing and when they had won was actually the Croatian flag. Yet in the score table; the correct flag for Serbia was shown. Why couldn't this flag mix-up be rectified before Serbia won the competition. I hope Eurovision noticed this error.

Freddieandthedreamers 13:03, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

I am quite certain the flag used was the Serbian flag in all cases. Though the two flags are fairly similar, the crests are different and the stripes are also different. I am quite certain the heart logos used in the contest did show this, though I do not have a video to prove this.

Lunarwhisper 22:20, 13 May 2007 (GMT)

I did record it and can confirm that it was the Serbian flag, and the stage background was always red. AxG ҈ ^►talk 21:41, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

The BBC "Sing-A-Long" wrongly showed Croatian flag (and song title), but I assume (from the previous comment) that the real graphics didn't. Joel i 17:05, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

I know for certain that it was the Croatian flag shown on the BBC "Sing-A-Long" in the heart logo. The flag of Serbia is very different as there is a different colour sequence and the crest has no red and white checkers. Both crests are in differnt positions on their flags! 86.135.150.158 17:46, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

We should make a paragraph or article about the voting system pros and cons

Concerning that it is a competition between countries, it's impossible to avoid the political friendly vote, even that we hear all these controversies all the time. The rule that you can't vote for your own country is obvious. There are 2 ways of counting the votes: in absolute total values at the european level but the results announcing show will be missing and bigger countries would have a more significant voting role, or the actual system (each country giving points depending on an hierarchy of votes - as it is now -, or, maybe, according to the percentages, but it's a lot more complicated and this encourages voting in just one direction for a higher percentage).

I resume the voting system in this way: each of the 24 countries in the Final has designated a representative as a music competitor who has to vote for his opponents (best 10 of 23 receive points), but his vote is given by his country audience.

The only thing we need to discuss is that is better or not allowing just the countries involved in SF, respectively F to vote and not all of them in both cases. The problem is just financially, but it is in opposition with the correctness of the competition. The best solution is just the countries involved to be allowed to vote! You can vote in both SF and F if your country qualifies from SF to F, only in SF if it doesn't, only in F if it is directly qualified in F. The SF to F countries will not be in such a great advantage as they are now, due to the fact that there will be just 10 of 28 countries to vote them the second time and 14 new ones! The political vote between countries will be at a minimum possible!

Daniel77o 20:20, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

It would probably make more sense to get the voting over with at the start of the show, then play the songs :-) 160.84.253.241 07:25, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

LOL, yes it might even make for a better show. The losing singers might improvise a more entertaining and more original performance ;) 62.2.236.130 13:30, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Serbia's backing vocalists

OK we know her name is Marija Serifovic. Can anyone give us the names of the Serbian dynamites that have also appeared on stage?
Parrisia 20:53, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Bottom right corner of this [10] page. Meelosh 12:02, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

UK in 22nd place

Look the way they seperate tied countries is number of 12 points awarded (see 1991 Sweden-France), NOT on number of countries - the UK received 1 12 points, France none,therefore the UK came 22nd, ahead of France. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.152.195.165 (talk) 20:55, 13 May 2007 (UTC).

But the offical site makes the UK at 23rd (See bottom of page. --AxG 20:57, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

There is an Extract of the Rules on the official site which states that ties are settled by number of votes before number of 12-point votes.

Rules:

The winner of the Grand Final is the song that has obtained the most points at the end of the voting procedure. Should there be a tie for first place in the Grand Final, the winner shall be the song which has obtained points from the highest number of countries. If the tying songs received votes from the same number of countries, then the highest number of 12-point scores shall be decisive.

212.44.93.210 05:44, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

If the tying songs received votes from the same number of countries - France received five votes, UK two. Everyone except BBC News, IIRC, gives the UK as either 23rd or second-to-last. Even eurovision.tv gives UK as 23rd. Will ^{(We're flying the flag all over the world)} 03:32, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Relevance

I just found out what this thing is cause it appeared in the main page. Is this really that important, compared to other world events? It's just a tv show. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Krazykenny (talk • contribs) 23:55, 13 May 2007 (UTC).

Few events are truly world events. I think the Super Bowl was featured too, and that's a sporting event in just one country.JdeJ 01:56, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

You did not know what Eurovision was until now? I thought near enough everyone knew OF it, if not what it actually was about? Then again, I only found out a couple of years ago... :) Gammondog

Semi-final controversy

A lot of countries have been upset by the semi final results and are threatening to withdraw in 2008 (Andorra, Ireland, Malta etc) and I don't see any word of the many complaints there have been about the semi-finals and block vote there. I have tried to put a word about the strong regional bias - an Eastern block vote leading to 9 out of the 10 spots for the final going - but this has been removed. I don't know why, because this is a fact. Hektor 06:40, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

The information as fact can be seen from the voting results and the map (like, except Estonia and Lithunia, none of the "eastern" countries voted for any "western" song). The question is if the point needs to be stressed in the text, and I'd say yes, because this controversy (by fact) exists, can not be ignored and can initiate changes to the whole system. This not only concerns the "eastern block", but also ridiculous oddities like Malta giving 12 points to the by far worst song of the contest, namely UK - oh wait! It's the same country? Now who wonders...

BTW, it should be noted that the Serbian song actually WAS a worthy winner, that had nothing to do with any conspiration. Our list while watching the tournament was: 1. Serbia 2. Hungary 3. Finland 4. Germany.

Finally, I'd like to note that different taste cannot be the whole reason. The French song was as silly as the Romanian or the Belarus one - but did not get any votes. --212.34.171.12 08:51, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

• Fine, but I was talking about the semi-final, not of the end results, which seem quite fair to me (the best song won, even if the other top ten were not the right ones). It seems that the semi-final results have generated such outrage in a few countries that they could pull out of the competition in the future. This controversy, given its consequences, seems notable to me. Hektor 09:38, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

!!It seems notable to me as well, and we never had so many countries wishing to withdraw, and they were not all countries with bad songs 62.2.236.130 13:32, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

New maps

A note to the creator of the new maps that the contest was not won by Serbia and Montenegro; Serbia won it on its own. ·ΚέκρωΨ· 09:32, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

And by the way, the "After final Map" seems to give the victory to Montenegro, pretending Serbia (th winner) to be unqualified ! 138.231.176.8 12:43, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

What do you mean, Serbia is red (1st place) and Montenegro is blue-ish (near last place) in this map? Mtcv 12:50, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

I believe ΚέκρωΨ/Kékrōps meant to point out (correctly) that the first two maps have no border between Serbia and Montenegro, when they should obviously have that border. - MTC 18:10, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Also I should point out that according to Wikipedia map rules, blue is not supposed to be used to color countries, but only bodies of water. That's why the orig. maps didn't color any blue. Greekboy 18:51, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Serbian plagiarism?

A Danish newspaper [11] is claiming that the Serbian entry is actually a copy of a 2-year old Albanian song. A comparison video can be found on YouTube [12]. Does anyone have more information about this? Tim (Xevious) 09:50, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Sour Albanian grapes? ·ΚέκρωΨ· 10:24, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

I don't know what exactly "a copy" is, but it doesn't look like a plagiarsm. Many songs look like each others, but these two are not similer enough to call one "a copy of the other". 212.200.100.108 (Darth Vader from sr:wiki) 19:43, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Eurofag- really?

ok so, has wikipedia become so inundated with conservative thought that eurovision is no known as eurofag as it is throughout this article?) 130.88.47.20 14:30, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Paul de Leeuw

How could he be the Dutch commentator while he announced the points live?--90.224.50.167 17:23, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Terry Wogan managed it in the UK in 1998 - both commentating, presenting and giving out the points!

I didn't watch in 1998, can you explain how he actually did do all that at once without causing some major presentation problems? I've alway been confused about that. Gammondog 14:44, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

The above information is incorrect. In 1998, Terry presented on stage with Ulrika Jonsson, Colin Berry announced the UK results (as he did frequently up until 2002) and Ken Bruce commentated. ~~ Peteb16 20:16, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

There were two commentators: Cornald Maas in Helsinki and Paul de Leeuw in the Netherlands. Paul went away for 10-20 minutes to do the points, during which Cornald Maas had to comment on his own. Mtcv 13:54, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Wogan came on then anounced Jonsson and then left to do the commentery. ESC98 OpenWogan Commentory --AxG 20:32, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

I conceed, you are correct, BBC Catalogue have Ken Bruce on the list, although I realise now his article here states he was commentator for BBC Radio 2. I'm sure Colin Berry was the vote presenter for many years however. ~~ Peteb16 21:35, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Stevan Faddy sung in MOntenegrin!

To whomever keeps changing the lnagauge of Montenegrin song from Montenegrin to Serbian, please stop. In the lyrics, Stevan sings, "Čija si lijepa đevojko?" (Whose are you pretty girl?) needs to know đevojka is the Montenegrin term for "girl" whereas in Serbian it is "devojka" and in Bosnian & Croatian it's "djevojka". Thank you.

The serbs think that all the languages in the former Yugoslavia are serbian.

I agree with you. But you cann't reason with those kind of people. I think that for the time beeing we should try with a compromise and say that he sung in Montenegrin language and Serbian language. In that way everybody can say that they were right. And in the future, when the Constitution of the Republic of Montenegro expresses the will of the Montenegrin nation that the official language is Montenegrin language, well, then nobody will change the language to Serbian any more. -- Imbris 23:14, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Vidak Latkovic?

I'm just curious but where did you find information about Montenegro's spokesperson (the person who delivers the points)? Basically I'm asking for the source.

Just browse over the internet.For example on http://www.phpbbserver.com/boumbanaboom/viewtopic.php?mforum=boumbanaboom&t=983&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=25&sid=dfca79db8784af6008573b6c5e5fc251&mforum=boumbanaboom forum I found out that He doesn't work for RTV Montenegro any more.He is now a PR of the Ministry of Defence,so It seems that all journalist are leaving TV Montenegro because they are underpaid and take better positions, usually as PR persons in diferent institutions.So he used to be a journalist of RTV Montenegro. You can also watch this clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvHDi0P0g0g, because Jana Pakonnen says that his name is Vidak.Ihope this helped.

Spokespersons

Can I create pages for the spokespersons of the Eurovision Song Contest 2007,because they are highlighted in red.I need help.

About the scoresheet

Hi, I just wanna tell that the scoresheet is terribly wrong. This said Cyprus gave 12 points to Bulgaria, Iceland to Serbia, etc. Maybe it has been vandalized. (Delgadoloayza 16:55, 18 August 2007 (UTC))

I have already discover the error: someone remove Bulgaria from the list of voting and add Italy (actually Italy do like Eurovision don't exist).

Ranking map

this map

I think that the ranking map should be taken out. There's no write up about it so I feel that it is only trying to cause people to think about voting issues like eastern europe doing better than western and so on. I can see putting it on maybe the voting page, but it doesn't really add anything to the quality of the 2007 page. Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 13:19, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

I see that no one cares...I took it out. Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 02:43, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Amended 'Controversy' section

I have changed the line about Abela saying the Maltese 12 points were 'fixed' (yes, the very words someone had put in this article) as a protest vote. The reference given says no such thing and he would certainly not be so foolish as to publicly say his country's televote was tampered with. My correction more accurately reflects what he actually said in the quote cited. I also removed a statement about 'what some fans think' which has no place in an encyclopaedia. I have also balanced out this section as the criticisms of the voting are greatly outweighed by opinion claiming these criticisms are 'racism', etc. Given that the EBU has since changed the voting system clearly the criticism was seen by the event's organisers as justified. User:Vauxhall1964|Vauxhall1964]] (talk) 18:43, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

ok, I think that's an awkward place for that section though. Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 19:38, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

Commentators and spokespersons

Please note that I have started a discussion on this content issue once again at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Eurovision#What to do with commentators and spokespersons. Camaron · Christopher · talk 19:18, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Score board confusion

It says that Poland gave twelve points to both Ukraine & Serbia, how could they have done this? This must be a mistake or some form of vandalism. --TardisShell (talk) 11:32, 12 August 2009 (UTC)