Wikipedia

Talk:Esports/Archive 2

< Talk:Esports
Latest comment: 1 year ago by Alyo in topic Semi-protected edit request on 14 June 2023
Archive 1Archive 2

What works and what doesn't work.

Latest comment: 8 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

I think that everything on this page is quite accurate, however, there is no actual full citation that states some of the information. I like the way how everything is organized one by one and gives good information about the context. The information seems to still lack some in-depth information. Maybe it would be better to add more to the context about more tournaments and events, maybe even a full list of each tournament and which game and where the tournament took place. Besides that, everything else is well done. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 8.41.197.223 (talk) 18:07, 3 October 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 February 2017

Latest comment: 7 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

the international dota 2 tournament is not played annually at the key arena stadium in seattle. the location changes every year. 116.193.131.247 (talk) 10:49, 13 February 2017 (UTC)

Page Title Change

Latest comment: 7 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

According to the AP Stylebook, "esports" is officially written out as that - esports. No capital S, no hyphen. We capitalise the "E" at the beginning of a sentence. Can we please change the title of this page to suit this? https://dotesports.com/culture/ap-style-esports-13789

Digitallic (talk) 02:53, 27 March 2017 (UTC)

@Digitallic: This is being discussed at WT:VG#Associated Press's MOS - "esports" not "eSports" because it affects a large number of articles. Please feel free to discuss there. --Izno (talk) 11:17, 27 March 2017 (UTC)

Video & Arcade Top 10

Latest comment: 7 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

I just wanted to add the Canadian Video & Arcade Top 10 to the 'Online video games (1990–1999)' in the space where the UK and Australian television shows were mentioned, especially because V&ATop10 aired for a lot longer than each of those. Definitely deserves a ping. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.85.53.161 (talk) 23:22, 24 April 2017 (UTC)

I added a link to the show. --Frmorrison (talk) 17:47, 3 May 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 May 2017

Latest comment: 7 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

Change "In the second decade of the 21st century..." to "Since approximately 2010..." SSBM sapa (talk) 20:34, 5 May 2017 (UTC)

I change the above wording to say "During the 2010s decade". --Frmorrison (talk) 20:48, 5 May 2017 (UTC)

Prolixity

Latest comment: 7 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

Polonius, freshman year:

Although organized online and offline competitions have long been a part of video game culture, participation and spectatorship of such events have seen a large surge in popularity from the late 2000s and early 2010s. While competitions around 2000 were largely between amateurs, the proliferation of professional competitions and growing viewership now supports a significant number of professional players and teams, and many video game developers now build features into their games designed to facilitate such competition.

On the Waterfront:

While competitions around 2000 were largely between amateurs, game developers now actively design toward a professional eSport subculture.

I find the entire lead painfully overwrought. There's nearly 400 characters difference between the two versions, yet perhaps 50 characters worth of added value. — MaxEnt 19:33, 4 June 2017 (UTC)

The influence of Polonius is present in this article and plenty of others. I trimmed the offending paragraph. --Frmorrison (talk) 14:47, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

Name consensus, AP style book

Latest comment: 7 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

The last discussion on the naming of eSports was Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Video games/Archive 129#Associated Press's MOS - "esports" not "eSports" here. The result was no change. eSports is still the current consensus. -- ferret (talk) 13:46, 27 July 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 19 August 2017

Latest comment: 7 years ago3 comments3 people in discussion

Change redirect link of 4Kings from "https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Books_of_Kings" to "https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4Kings" Se7enk1ngs (talk) 21:27, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

  Not done for now: I do not see a link anywhere. jd22292 (Jalen D. Folf) (talk) 21:42, 19 August 2017 (UTC)
  Done Changed link from 4 Kings to 4Kings. -- ferret (talk) 22:39, 19 August 2017 (UTC)
Latest comment: 7 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 8 external links on ESports. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 19:07, 15 September 2017 (UTC)

Latest comment: 7 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 3 external links on ESports. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 13:57, 30 September 2017 (UTC)

Add a paragraph : Sponsoring

Latest comment: 7 years ago4 comments2 people in discussion

Hello, I would like to add a text to the article. The new paragraph will be about sponsoring. It is not mentioned and this side in the esport is really important. Nowadays, sponsoring is considered as a new communication strategy and it has a real place in this field (in the sport so also in the esport). Sponsoring allows the player to have a true support from the brand (money, materials etc.) and in exchange, the brand earns visibility. Gaming players are influencers as any sportsman. I also want to add that it is part of the “player dream” to be sponsor by a brand. A well known player will provide a good visibility to the brand and the brand will be associated to this player. It’s a partnership between the brand and the player. This is really common in our times as well as a brand can sponsor a football player or a team. IAEP.CoralieLY (talk) 18:55, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

  Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. It will also need to be backed by reliable secondary sources. -- ferret (talk) 19:21, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
I don't want to change the text but to add a "sponsor" section to the article. This section will be divided into 4 parts -> Sponsoring possibilities (what is it possible to sponsor in esport); who are the sponsors (what are the mutuals benefit for brands and players), sponsoring target, growth and the revenus (USA, Europe, Asia). My sources are writers and online news articles. IAEP.CoralieLY (talk) 19:52, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
Unless you provide exact text to insert and the reliable secondary sources, I cannot help. Reliable secondary sources will be critical, see WP:VG/RS for a list of vetted sources we typically accept. Major news sites also typically qualify. -- ferret (talk) 20:59, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 October 2017

Latest comment: 7 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

Sponsorship

Sponsors are in all televised international competitions or direct live broadcast via streaming. The brands can sponsor a player or an event. Since 2016, more than 600 esports sponsorship agreements have been signed[1]. Most of the time sponsored players are paid with benefit in kind: materials, equipments to put forward the brand. When it comes to the events (e.g: tournaments) brands give money in exchange of visibility. By sponsoring a player, a company wants to take advantage of the player popularity or audience to publicize its products or services and develops its economic activity. Then, the player become a digital influencer and the brand uses the player's notoriety as a real media.

Sponsorship opportunities

Brand can sponsor :

  • Professional events, teams or players. The Team Vitality is one of the most famous French teams: 37 professional players and about fifteen titles won. The team signed a partnership with Adidas and the brand also became the official equipment supplier for Vitality.
  • Create experiences with fans
  • Sponsor or co-create content with streamers, influencers including Youtube or Twitch.
Brands

Until recently, the main companies that sponsored players were close to eSports area : computer science, video games, high tech. Today, new companies are investing the eSports sponsor market : Arby's, Audi, Coca-Cola, PepsiCo, Gillette, Bud Light...[2].

Sponsorship and advertising represent the bulk of revenues. It is one of the main growth drivers of eSports. It’s more significant and it’s structured budgets for teams and organizers [3].

The brand advantages:

  • Be distinguished from the competitors by entering in a new and growing market
  • Benefit from international coverage but also local coverage
  • Addressed to a young and connected audience who is increasingly receptive to advertising (e.g: adblockers)

The hearing

Sponsorship is a new growing communication tool to a young and connected target. The audiences concerned vary slightly from country to country, but it is a rather male audience between 15 and 35 years old, very connected and active on digital. It should be noted that women are also present in this sector[3]. Emerging streams can be noticed as wells as professional players are more and more numerous. A football community is also present around the game Fifa. It grows by following investments in football clubs. Since 2016, they have invested eSport by recruiting their own players.

Revenus

Sponsorship is growing as investors are growing. The US and Europe are gradually catching up on Asia, which is the largest eSports market. Sponsorship revenue is expected to reach $266 million in 2017 and $1220 million in 2020, while ad spending on esports will hit $155 million, according to Newzoo[2].

IAEP.CoralieLY (talk) 11:05, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ Darren Heitner. "More Than 600 Esports Sponsorships Secured Since Start Of 2016". {{cite web}}: Unknown parameter |Retrieved= ignored (|access-date= suggested) (help); Unknown parameter |site= ignored (help).
  2. ^ a b Web production by Chen Wu. "Behind the Rise of Esports and What It Means for Brands". {{cite web}}: Unknown parameter |Retrieved= ignored (|access-date= suggested) (help); Unknown parameter |site= ignored (help).
  3. ^ a b Flavien Chantrel. "État des lieux de l'eSport et de ses opportunités pour les marques". {{cite web}}: Unknown parameter |Retrieved= ignored (|access-date= suggested) (help); Unknown parameter |site= ignored (help).
  Not done for now: I feel like this is far too much content for just three sources. It needs to be condensed considerably. There's also a lot of parts that make me think it was translated off of a different Wiki, including the use of Link Web as a template (We use Cite Web) and odd phrases like "The hearing". If you have translated this from elsewhere, we have to proper attribute it to that Wiki. -- ferret (talk) 14:58, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

First P-1A Visa claim

Latest comment: 7 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

The article makes the following claim

In 2013, Canadian League of Legends player Danny "Shiphtur" Le became the first pro gamer to receive an American P-1A visa, a category designated for "Internationally Recognized Athletes".

This is sourced from a LA Times article. However on the P visa page and in this fnatic archive they claim the first pro gamer to get a P-1A visa was Swedish CS player Marcus "zet" Sundström in 2007, when he came to play for compLexity Gaming. Does anyone have any insight here? I can't find any sources talking about zet's time in states, beyond fan-sourced wiki's and team blogs. However, I don't find it hard to believe that mainstream news outlets just overlooked his achievement when writing about Shiptur's visa in 2013. GiovanniSidwell (talk) 12:37, 24 October 2017 (UTC)

I just did a search and other than fan-source Wikis and blogs, I see no other reference to "zet" getting a visa. Therefore, I corrected the P visa page with the reliable source. Also, zet's info was first added about a year ago and did not appear before then. --Frmorrison (talk) 18:06, 24 October 2017 (UTC)
Latest comment: 7 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on ESports. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 15:38, 3 November 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 November 2017

Latest comment: 7 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

please add my request in 8.Media coverage contents,Can you add my request next from 8.3 Television

eSports web platform

Many eSports events are created by big companies.it requires a lot of investment. The International 2017 is the biggest tournament of Dota 2. The initial prize pool for the tournament was $24,787,916 USD. It is the highest prize in the world. But eSports web platform it is a website that allows anyone to create an own event without the huge capital. To use eSports web platform to manage events. eSports web platform consists of events organization, organizers, team organization, ranking system of professional gamers or “pro players”, commentators, pro players market and advertisement.First events organization it is a system used to organize all the thing of your event example scheduling, number of contestants. Organizers who are the owner of events. they can invite any team and commentator to join their events.The main income of the organizers is from advertisement. commentators, it is similar to football narrator or basketball narrator. Everyone can be a commentator. But your popularity will be provided by voting from web users .voting point will affect the decision of the organizer. Pro players market for more player trading and organizers can invite any team to join their events. the trading market will record trading statistics, statistics of pro players.ranking system, This system was created for the organizers would select the same level of any team. This is based on individual player stats and the overall statistics of the team.

[1]

References

  1. ^ http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/The_International/2017

Earth 98 (talk) 18:45, 13 November 2017 (UTC)

  Not done: Unsourced, and broken English. The wiki link for Team Liquid would be unreliable, and doesn't source any of the content, just the pool for The International. -- ferret (talk) 18:50, 13 November 2017 (UTC)

Additional paragraph to the mediatisation section

Latest comment: 6 years ago6 comments3 people in discussion


IAEP.CoralieLY (talk) 22:10, 20 November 2017 (UTC)

Sponsoring

eSport borrows the traditional sport codes : - the organization : team, management, competition - the mediatization: television, social media, internet, magazines and sponsorship.[1].

The sponsors are, with advertising, one of the biggest income of eSports.[2]. These budgets[3] allow the organizers and video game professionals to be partly paid and be able to organize big eSport events (e.g: Paris Games Week in France).

Advertising managers see sponsorship as an investment. For these companies, it's a good way to reach their marketing target which is a young audience who spends money by buying their products[4].

Until recently, the main corporate sponsors were close to the eSports world (informatics, video game, high tech companies). Today new companies are investing this communication tool. Smartphone companies easily sponsor tournaments in order to reach their target audience such as Samsung and to be associated to the high technology[5]. Other kind of brands sponsor eSport by associating their products to these events: Coca Cola, Redbull, Gilette...

Sponsorship is a new growing communication territory that targets young and connected people. There are more than 320 million viewers around the world and 60% of them are between 18 to 34 year olds[6].

IAEP.CoralieLY (talk) 22:10, 20 November 2017 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ "Du streaming au mainstreaming: mécanismes de médiatisation du sport électronique". researchgate.net. 20 November 2017.
  2. ^ "Raising the Stakes: E-Sports and the Professionalization of Computer Gaming". books.google..fr. 20 November 2017.
  3. ^ "État des lieux de l'eSport et de ses opportunités pour les marques". blogdumoderateur..com. 20 November 2017.
  4. ^ "Raising the Stakes: E-Sports and the Professionalization of Computer Gaming". books.google..fr. 20 November 2017.
  5. ^ "Samsung Galaxy (eSports)". en.wikipedia..org. 20 November 2017.
  6. ^ "Ce "e-sport" qui dérange le monde sportif". la-croix.com. 20 November 2017.
  Not done: Essentially for the same reason as previous rejected sections. There's quite a bit of broken English here and I am not sure what the intent of it was, so cannot fix. Over all, the section has a strangely promotional tone and marketing and promotion of eSports. None of this really aids the reader to include. -- ferret (talk) 22:15, 20 November 2017 (UTC)

It looks like broken english because I am French so feel free to correct the wrong sentences. I used strong sources such as "Taylor" who is working in the MIT and wrote a thesis about eSport its Sponsoring and Communication is a huge part of eSport. The companies provide the materials and the money to build such events and tournaments, otherwise it won't be possible. If you read thesis and other people work about eSport subject, they all provide content about the sponsoring side of eSport and no promotion of eSport will be the death of this sport. No sponsors = no means = 0 events & projects. IAEP.CoralieLY (talk) 09:23, 21 November 2017 (UTC)

I cannot evaluate the sourcing used as it is all French. The translation from French is difficult to understand and I'm not sure how to repair some of the sentences. Overall, it reads like a PR piece either way, and lacks an encyclopedic tone. @Salvidrim!: Would you perhaps be willing to evaluate the sources, and re-translate this from frwiki? -- ferret (talk) 15:32, 21 November 2017 (UTC)
Of the sources, the first one is an actual paper from an INSEP researcher, the second and fourth are the same, a book by an MIT professor, the third is an interview with Audrey Fleury, founder of http://digitalinsighters.com/ (PR firm) and teacher of digital marketing & communication, the fifth is just another enwiki article, and the sixth is a news article in La Croix which seems just like any other reliable news outlet. As for the retranslation, maybe eventually, but for the time being I have other things on my mind unfortunately. :( Ben · Salvidrim! ✉ 15:43, 21 November 2017 (UTC)

Changing the capitalization to "esports"

Latest comment: 6 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

"esports" is the form recommended by the Associated Press style guide. [1] Bert303 (talk) 16:35, 21 November 2017 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ Darcy, Kieran. "Why the AP Stylebook settled on". ESPN.com. ESPN. Retrieved 21 November 2017.
This has been discussed numerous times. See Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Video games/Archive 129#Associated Press's MOS - "esports" not "eSports" which resulted in no consensus to change based on the AP stylebook. -- ferret (talk) 16:39, 21 November 2017 (UTC)

No capitalisation in the middle of words.

Latest comment: 6 years ago7 comments4 people in discussion

It's either esports (as per the Associated Press) or e-sports (as per the Oxford Dictionary) but NEVER eSports. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A01:C23:7804:5E00:DC8:5EA5:380:B66D (talk) 18:40, 27 November 2017 (UTC)

You could read the section just above this that discusses the same topic. -- ferret (talk) 18:43, 27 November 2017 (UTC)
Is it time to hold another official discussion on this? I think my own personal opinions on it have changed, as well as some sources, and this is going to constantly be an issue over time. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 19:18, 27 November 2017 (UTC)
I'm neutral to be honest, I just follow the established consensus. Having to follow the convention of eSports is annoying but that doesn't mean anything to policy. COMMONNAME as far as it applies to capitalization is a massive pain to try to search and analysis. What I fear is that any change will just result in calls to go to back, so as far as a remedy to address the topic constantly being brought up goes... nothing will change. -- ferret (talk) 19:23, 27 November 2017 (UTC)
I do agree, however I think the article will eventually have to be moved. If I remember right, basically all of the "keep as eSports" comments, including mine, were mainly about its COMMONNAME usage by sources at the time, which seems to be going more and more in the "esports" direction as of late, especially since the AP thing. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 19:58, 27 November 2017 (UTC)
I believe the common usage of "eSports" will become esports in the future but for now I see more use of eSports by the press. I guess those outlets haven't read the AP style guide yet. For regular people in tweets, I see more use of esports.--Frmorrison (talk) 20:06, 27 November 2017 (UTC)
Interesting, I see the opposite and notice less and less use of eSports, as compared to the last discussion we had on this anyway. Could you provide a list of eSports using sites? Also, should we only consider reliable sources as a part of the general consensus, or would sites like The Esports Observer and Dot Esports be considered too? ~ Dissident93 (talk) 20:22, 27 November 2017 (UTC)
Latest comment: 6 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 3 external links on ESports. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 01:48, 12 January 2018 (UTC)

Hello!

Latest comment: 6 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

I'm a college student from the U.S and I'm in the beginning stages of editing this article for a class assignment. Thanks for letting me join your community! I look forward to discussing contributions to this page. :) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Agexil3157 (talk • contribs) 01:56, 2 March 2018 (UTC)

@Agexil3157: This article is currently semiprotected and you are not eligible to edit it. You will need to make edits elsewhere to other articles in order to gain autoconfirmed status, after which you can edit this article. Please make sure to read some of the recent talk page discussions before editing, and heed to edit notice regarding spelling. -- ferret (talk) 01:59, 2 March 2018 (UTC)

Training

Latest comment: 6 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

I'm considering creating a new section on training in eSports and how it differs in training compared to traditional sports such as basketball, football, and rugby. I would talk about the specific games and programs that the players use to better themselves with things such as typing speed, keyboard coordination, and accuracy with the mouse or joystick. eSports training consists almost entirely of the mind, whereas traditional sports deal with much more physical training and preparation.

Agexil3157 (talk) 00:58, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

What kind of reliable secondary sourcing is there for this topic? Not just in the specifics, but in comparison to other sports. -- ferret (talk) 01:10, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

Potentially changing name from eSports to esports. Similar to email.

Latest comment: 6 years ago6 comments5 people in discussion

It's pretty much been agreed in the esports industry to use esports as the term, in the same way as email is used. Start of a sentence? Esports. Could get some top esports people in here to sign for it or whatever. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.161.148.175 (talk) 21:24, 2 April 2018 (UTC)

  • You are really bringing nothing new to the discussion, as this has already been mentioned countless times before. For the record, I'm on board of moving the page, but there isn't enough of a consensus from other editors yet. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 01:16, 3 April 2018 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ https://www.apstylebook.com/help?query=esports#/questions/163722-Whats-new-in-the-2017-edition
  2. ^ https://twitter.com/apstylebook/status/849696651111309312?lang=en

The order of games (Smite before StarCraft II)?

Latest comment: 6 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

Why is Smite listed before StarCraft II? SC2 was released two years earlier, and has had 20 million USD more in prize pools. Is this shameless Smite propaganda? Please, correct the order.--Adûnâi (talk) 12:18, 18 April 2018 (UTC)

I put the games listed into abc order, that is the most fair approach. --Frmorrison (talk) 13:46, 18 April 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 May 2018

Latest comment: 6 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

change eSport to esport. Best regards, Redeye 213.64.2.135 (talk) 21:46, 4 May 2018 (UTC)

  Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. See numerous discussions in the talk archives. -- ferret (talk) 21:56, 4 May 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 May 2018

Latest comment: 6 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

Esports has been identified in the AP stylebook as having the same capitalisation rules as email: if the word is at the beginning of the sentence, it should be spelled "Esports"; anywhere else in the sentence, it should be spelled "esports". "eSports" or "ESports" would need to be replaced with "esports" or "Esports" in the URL, page header, other AKA variations ("eSports" would also needed to be added as an AKA variation in place of "esports"), and throughout the article. Wi5domDG (talk) 23:34, 17 May 2018 (UTC)

tournaments

Latest comment: 6 years ago3 comments3 people in discussion

Less important tournaments from Europe should be added ( y-games ). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.151.246.155 (talk) 16:01, 2 June 2018 (UTC)

Such as....? -- ferret (talk) 16:12, 2 June 2018 (UTC)
Yeah, you should provide examples. And if they don't have articles, then they don't belong. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 00:35, 3 June 2018 (UTC)

Addition to Training Section

Latest comment: 6 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

Training is crucial to players longevity. "Make no mistake, sports medicine and wellness initiatives in esports are both lacking and in high-demand. Perhaps the clearest example is one of the most-celebrated esports stars of all-time, StarCraft: Brood War player Lee “Flash” Young Ho. Just four years into his professional gaming career, Flash showed clear signs of pain coming from his wrist and arm muscles. Eventually diagnosed with a severe repetitive strain injury, Flash would go on to require reconstructive surgery, resulting in “a scar, half an inch wide, stretched from just above the elbow and up over his shoulder.”

There are, obviously, other serious and minor injuries esports professionals have sustained over the years as well. Carpal tunnel, DVTs, neck pain, and even tennis elbow have all been documented within the industry. Of course, professional teams have been hiring doctors and trainers for years in attempts to help lengthen their stars’ careers. Making matters worse is that new teams and organizations often lack either the resources or foresight to invest in these areas. Foundry IV along with Hyperice have created evaluating duration of game play and necessary preventive and recovery solutions relating to muscle relaxation, stress reduction and mobility. Now, educational workshops, tutorials featuring elite level gamers and scientific experts are beginning to utilize Hyperice like traditional professional athletes as well. Cite error: There are <ref> tags on this page without content in them (see the help page).https://esportsobserver.com/foundry-iv-partners-with-hyperice/ Ssage10 (talk) 20:47, 8 August 2018 (UTC)

It is Esports not eSports

Latest comment: 6 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Basically...it is Esports not eSports — Preceding unsigned comment added by Themichaelm123 (talk • contribs) 17:11, 10 September 2018 (UTC)

Esports should not be written eSports.

Latest comment: 6 years ago7 comments5 people in discussion

When did the word esports become immune to basic grammar/spelling? Can someone give a consensus for why it's written eSports, or is it just the "ferret" guy that likes to falsely inform people?

Ffk89 (talk) 16:02, 4 August 2018 (UTC)

There isn't really a debate over it, just more of what you prefer writing, Esports or eSports. ESPN[2] and Blizzard[3] has ESPORTS as Esports, while Guardian[4] and RedBull[5] uses "eSports", I'd say maybe just change the title to "Electronic Sports" -忍者- (talk) 02:47, 6 October 2018 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ https://esportsinsider.com/2017/03/associated-press-ended-esports-vs-esports-debate/
  2. ^ http://www.espn.com/esports/
  3. ^ https://esports.blizzard.com/en-us/
  4. ^ https://www.theguardian.com/sport/esports
  5. ^ https://www.redbull.com/us-en/tags/esports

Having an RFC on "Esports/esports" vs "eSports"?

Latest comment: 6 years ago11 comments4 people in discussion

Because this keeps coming up, I think we may want to consider asking the question broadly to WP as a whole, of whether for MOS and naming purposes, do we go with "esports" (or "Esports" when leading a sentence) or stay with "eSports". I know the last move was only 2 years ago, but this AP thing was more recent and that does change the picture. Again, I'm only asking if we should have an RFC, not about whether this is a good change or not. --Masem (t) 18:11, 10 September 2018 (UTC)

I don't think it can change without an RFC. The move history shows this has ALWAYS been contentious, and since the current local consensus from WP:VG is to not automatically follow the AP style guide, we have kept it as is for now. However, since this is more than simply the name of this article, but the convention of "esports" spelling wiki-wide, I suggest a MOS:VG discussion/RFC. Make it MOS so we have someone to point to and organize around. -- ferret (talk) 18:13, 10 September 2018 (UTC)
Yeah, it's definitely a MOS thing more than a move request in how I think we need to approach this. (if we do end up with the MOS at "esports" then this page needs to move by default). I just want to make sure such an RFC is not seen as disruptive or anything. --Masem (t) 18:22, 10 September 2018 (UTC)
I think it's the only route to a resolution with the history of the page. -- ferret (talk) 19:37, 10 September 2018 (UTC)

RFC has been started over at MOS:VG Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Video games#RFC: Standardization of "eSports"/"esports"/"e-sports". --Masem (t) 21:00, 10 September 2018 (UTC)

This RFC has closed with the consensus that Esports is the preferred spelling. E-sports is acceptable as well. eSports should not be used. -- ferret (talk) 13:18, 16 October 2018 (UTC)

Well the RFC made some news anyway.[1][2] -- GreenC 16:10, 18 October 2018 (UTC)

"one last big holdout". Some day media will realize Wikipedia is supposed to follow sources, not set precedents. Ah, who am I kidding. —  HELLKNOWZ   ▎TALK 21:59, 18 October 2018 (UTC)
@Hellknowz: But at least the "the correct choice one out.".... Sad, from an accepted reliable source ;) -- ferret (talk) 22:00, 18 October 2018 (UTC)
We should restart a new RFC, demanding we call esports "Snuzzlefluffers", and see what happens :P --Masem (t) 00:19, 19 October 2018 (UTC)
@Masem: At the very least we should think about Esports Spelling Controversy, right? -- ferret (talk) 16:52, 19 October 2018 (UTC)

Addition to Associations Section

Latest comment: 5 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

We would like to request that the Esports Trade Association (ESTA) be added to the Associations section. ESTA is a new trade association formed in 2018. You can find more information about the association on our website at: https://esportsta.org/.

Meganvanpetten (talk) 22:13, 3 January 2019 (UTC)Megan Van Petten, Managing Director, Esports Trade Association

Such additions are based on whether reliable sources (such as those at WP:VG/RS) have covered the organization. —  HELLKNOWZ   ▎TALK 22:52, 3 January 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 February 2019

Latest comment: 5 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

e-Sports should be written in this way 'Esports'. This is one of the common mistakes committed by most of the journalist in the industry. According to Paul Chaloner well-known esports broadcaster claims esports is the right way to be. Nickooooooooo (talk) 11:13, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

  Not done: This is already how we spell it. —  HELLKNOWZ   ▎TALK 11:21, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 10 July 2019

Latest comment: 5 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

Esports should be spelled as "Esports" and "esports", but not "e-sports", or "eSports" BruceVayne2216 (talk) 06:13, 10 July 2019 (UTC)

  Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. That is already pretty much the consensus. Note that spelling variations mentioned in the article have been discussed at length and all variants are or have been used in media to varying degrees. —  HELLKNOWZ   ▎TALK 07:16, 10 July 2019 (UTC)

Game examples in the lead

Latest comment: 5 years ago5 comments4 people in discussion

So there's been an edit war regarding Rocket League and a number of other games as popular esport examples in the lead, for both bloat and notability reasons. My compromise was to only list games/series that have been an esports staple for a long time (five years or more), which justifies the current list of League of Legends, Dota, Counter-Strike, Super Smash Bros, and StarCraft. An exception that I left in was Overwatch, as it has a number of official leagues and international events for it (and generally more popular/notable than Rocket League). However, I wouldn't oppose if somebody wants to remove it for the same reasons, since it's still a newer game. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 21:02, 28 October 2019 (UTC)

I mean, anything above 3 examples is just an WP:EXAMPLEFARM that will never get better. Ideally, we would have source that discuss which games are the most notable example of eSp0rtS. —  HELLKNOWZ   ▎TALK 21:12, 28 October 2019 (UTC)
That's true, but I think there could be an exception here because of how varied the genres are. Or we could instead list the three major genres that cover the majority of esport games, which would be MOBA, first-person shooters, and card games. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 21:55, 28 October 2019 (UTC)

Qylux (talk) 21:01, 7 November 2019 (UTC)I would like to add Rocket League because it is becoming a popular esport among gamers, and it is one of the most played games on Steam. Oh and by the way Dissindent93 it is not a new game, it came out in 2015, and before that was Supersonic Acrobatic Rocket-Powered Battle-Cars which was the prequel of Rocket League, and was very popular on PS3. And last but not least, look at the RLCS and RLRS, do you think a minor esport would have tournaments like that? No my friend. (EDIT) And, you gave an exception for Overwatch, Why? Rocket League has a larger community. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Qylux (talk • contribs) 19:07, 11 November 2019 (UTC)

How are you going to prove that? Dissident's reason is pretty clear, and I'd tend to agree. Even though its a mid-day check, Overwatch has 4 times more people watching on Twitch right now than RL does. We're just listing some of the biggest most famous examples, and I agree that RL doesn't quite fit in the top tiers. I also agree with Hellknowz that we have too many examples as is. -- ferret (talk) 19:19, 11 November 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 22 November 2019

Latest comment: 4 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

Underneath: "In 2014, the largest independent esports league, Electronic Sports League, partnered with the local brand Japan Competitive Gaming to try and grow esports in the country.[51]

Physical viewership of esports competitions and the scope of events have increased in tandem with the growth of online viewership.[52] In 2013, the Season 3 League of Legends World Championship was held in a sold-out Staples Center.[53] The 2014 League of Legends World Championship in Seoul, South Korea, had over 40,000 fans in attendance and featured the band Imagine Dragons, and opening and closing ceremonies in addition to the competition.[54]

In 2015, the first Esports Arena was launched in Santa Ana, California, as the United States' first dedicated esports facility.[55]"

Please add: "To date, the annual event that attracts highest viewership numbers remains the League of Legends World Championships. In 2018, the tournament attracted 99.6M unique viewers and a peak of 44M concurrent viewers watching from across the globe.[1] This audience figure surpasses major sports competitions, including the 2019 Superbowl (typically the most-viewed event per year) with a unique viewership of 98.2M.[2]" JDB37 (talk) 17:10, 22 November 2019 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ "League of Legends 2018 World Championship Finals by the Numbers". 11 December 2018. Retrieved 22 November 2019.
  2. ^ "Super Bowl draws lowest TV audience in more than a decade". 05 February 2019. Retrieved 22 November 2019. {{cite web}}: Check date values in: |date= (help)
  Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Remember, you can't WP:Synthesise something not stated in a WP:RS. - ChrisWar666 (talk) 14:20, 27 November 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 29 August 2020

Latest comment: 4 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

In section: History --subsection: Growth and online video games (1990–1999)

Change last sentence "PC games played at the CPL included the Counter-Strike series, Quake series, and Warcraft."

to "PC games played included the Counter-Strike series, Quake series, StarCraft, and Warcraft."

I want people to know that the additional game StarCraft did in fact have their beginnings in the 90s. Else people may assume that it began in the 2000s since the first mention of it is in the next subsection Global Tournaments.

potential source article? (if you could help format the ref that would be helpful. 4am here) https://www.espn.com/esports/story/_/id/29645681/how-world-changed-original-tony-hawk-pro-skater

formatted (and fixed the warcraft link and counter-strike link, but don't know how to fix quake, but not necessary): PC games played included the Counter-Strike series, Quake series, StarCraft and Warcraft.

104.219.156.34 (talk) 09:59, 29 August 2020 (UTC)

  Done Lettherebedarklight (talk) 12:40, 20 October 2020 (UTC)

Organization

Latest comment: 3 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

The history and media coverage contents could be combined to make the article flow much better, it could help the article to become more concise and not be as long as it is right now. --Gcamp02 (talk) 21:07, 19 November 2020 (UTC)

Gcamp02, I see what you're suggesting, but I think they cover slightly different topics, don't they? The Esports#Media_coverage section as I see it is more about the development of the mediums that esports have been consumed on, rather than the growth of the games/competitive scenes themselves. I personally would keep them separate, but you're right that there are probably ways that the article could be made more concise. Alyo (chat·edits) 19:58, 20 November 2020 (UTC)

Format

Latest comment: 3 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

The popular games section should be able to easily switch out the games that are listed because every year new games become "mainstream" and go into the spotlight. --Gcamp02 (talk) 21:08, 19 November 2020 (UTC)

Gcamp02, I think we should be careful about deciding to add games based on what we editors see as popular. That crosses the line into original research, which is forbidden on wikipedia. We should stick with what reliable sources say are the most popular games over a longer period of time, rather than trying to constantly keep updating that section based on flash-in-the-pan esports. For example, many a mobile game developer has paid a lot of money to suddenly give their game an esports scene and promote it everywhere, but those tend not to last. Alyo (chat·edits) 20:02, 20 November 2020 (UTC)

Request for rewrite of this section

Latest comment: 3 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

"Training The training that the players must undergo to prepare for tournaments is different but still takes a tremendous amount of time. Athletes from traditional sports' training is almost entirely based on honing their physical prowess in performing that sport, such as muscle memory, exercising, and dieting. Esports athletes' training is much more based on training the mind, such as studying strategies and new updates for the game. Team Liquid, a professional League of Legends team, practice for a minimum of 50 hours per week and most play the game far more.[123] This training schedule for players has resulted in many of them retiring an early age. Few careers burn as intensely—and as briefly—as that of an esports professional. Players are generally in competition by their mid- to late-teens, with most retiring by their late-20s.[124]"

This is hardly written in an encyclopedic manner, reading as though it were copy/pasted from an argumentative/assertive essay. I would edit it myself, but as a humble nonregistered user, I would expect any changes I make to be reverted regardless of quality. --131.15.136.128 (talk) 15:53, 20 November 2020 (UTC)

Hey 131, I entirely agree. I'm going to strip this section down to its bones and merge into the general "Players and teams" section. And hey, don't counrt yourself out, I think you could have done it just as well! Alyo (chat·edits) 20:18, 20 November 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 11 January 2021

Latest comment: 3 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

Gambling and betting on esports are regulated differently on a market-by-market basis. In most cases esports betting falls under the regulations that govern traditional sports betting. The online nature of the esports gambling has led to the creation of a grey/black market but the majority of the most popular esports betting sites are tightly regulated by governments and organisations like the Esports Integrity Commission, UK Gambling commissions and Malta Gaming Authority in Europe. In the US esports betting is regulated on a state-by-state basis. Puerto Rico is the most recent region to legalise esports betting. Issues have been raised over the age of the fans watching esports and how it could encourage underage gambling. Despite the average age of an esports viewer being 28 there are valid concerns and in many cases, they are being addressed. Betting sites like Rivalry will not promote their website on players shirts if they are under the age of 18 and they do not sell those shirts in child sizes. (https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20170223005219/en/) GFCapozzi (talk) 16:03, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

GFCapozzi are you requesting this content be added to the article? Alyo (chat·edits) 16:30, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

Reference 174 URL Update

Latest comment: 3 years ago4 comments4 people in discussion

The URL for Reference 170 seems to be outdated. Please change http://bjoernfranzen.com/blog/doping-in-esports-the-almost-invisible-elephant-in-the-room (Not Found) to https://bjoernfranzen.com/doping-in-esports-the-almost-invisible-elephant-in-the-room/ --91.148.224.33 (talk) 21:47, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

  Done - see Special:Diff/1009135480. Best, DanCherek (talk) 22:33, 26 February 2021 (UTC)


Please change the URL for Reference 174 from https://bjoernfranzen.com/doping-in-esports-the-almost-invisible-elephant-in-the-room/ to https://web.archive.org/web/20210422153147/https://bjoernfranzen.com/doping-in-esports-the-almost-invisible-elephant-in-the-room/. I have to permanently discontinue maintenance of the website in the near future, but would like to see the article preserved for future reference. Thanks for your time and effort. Bjoern 176.198.89.55 (talk) 11:11, 13 May 2021 (UTC)

  Done —  HELLKNOWZ   ▎TALK 11:18, 13 May 2021 (UTC)

Mention Russia as a first country to classify cybersport as a sport

Latest comment: 3 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

atm: wikipage mentions only about China that classified cybersport as a sport in 2003. I do believe it worth mentioning about Russia.

Source (simplified version):

Russia was a first country that has classified cybersport as official sport discipline.[1]. That happened 25th of july 2001[2]. After series of reforms in Russian sport, cybersport had to and was classified as a sport once again 12th of march 2004 [2][3][3][4][5]. In July 2006 cybersport was removed from a list of sport disciplines cause it did'nt fit new sport standards.[6][7].

7th of july 2016 Ministry of sport has declared to add cybersport into sport registry[8]. 13th of april 2017 cybersport has become an official sport discipline once again.

Source: https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9A%D0%B8%D0%B1%D0%B5%D1%80%D1%81%D0%BF%D0%BE%D1%80%D1%82

Not sure how much of this should be added to wikipage. But i do believe it worth mentioning that Russia was a first country to recognize cybersport 109.252.47.128 (talk) 03:52, 11 September 2021 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ "Как Россия первой в мире признала киберспорт" (in Russian). Retrieved 2017-10-23.
  2. ^ a b Cite error: The named reference komsport2001 was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
  3. ^ a b Cite error: The named reference komsport2003 was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
  4. ^ Cite error: The named reference fedagent2006 was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
  5. ^ Cite error: The named reference reestr2004 was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
  6. ^ ProPlay / Новости / Киберспорт более не имеет официального статуса
  7. ^ См. Приказ Федерального агентства по физической культуре и спорту от 4 июля 2006 г № 414 «О компьютерном спорте»; Положение «О Всероссийском реестре видов спорта (ВРВС)» (утв. Приказом Федерального агентства по физической культуре, спорту и туризму от 28 сентября 2004 г № 273).
  8. ^ Cite error: The named reference pravo-esports was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
Added to the article under Esports#Classification_as_a_sport. —  HELLKNOWZ   ▎TALK 11:14, 3 October 2021 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

Latest comment: 2 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

  This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): RazerBandit.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 20:51, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

Latest comment: 2 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

  This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Ayuen506. Peer reviewers: Ayuen506.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 20:52, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

Latest comment: 2 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

  This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 29 January 2019 and 8 March 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Dw2460.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 20:52, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

Latest comment: 2 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

  This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 13 January 2020 and 7 May 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Nwilkins2.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 20:52, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

Latest comment: 2 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

  This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 4 October 2021 and 9 December 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Baezoey.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 20:52, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

Latest comment: 2 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

  This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 9 November 2021 and 10 December 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Springle12.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 20:52, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 24 January 2022

Latest comment: 2 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

Change: Tournaments established in the late 1990s include the Cyberathlete Professional League (CPL), QuakeCon, and the Professional Gamers League. PC games played at the CPL included the Counter-Strike series, Quake series, StarCraft, and Warcraft. TO: Tournaments established in the late 1990s include the Cyberathlete Professional League (CPL), QuakeCon, Myth World Cup, and the Professional Gamers League. PC games played at the CPL included the Counter-Strike series, Quake series, StarCraft, and Warcraft. Homerrrr (talk) 19:28, 24 January 2022 (UTC)

Do you have a reliable source regarding the addition of the Myth World Cup? Alyo (chat·edits) 20:13, 24 January 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 March 2022

Latest comment: 2 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion
SabaAnsari21 (talk) 10:06, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

I found out that your wiki page needed some edits, and I was thinking if you can allow me to do that! 1. Grammar, spelling, formatting. 2. Citation if needed.

  Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 10:19, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

"Not a sport"

Latest comment: 2 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

"Former ESPN president John Skipper described esports in 2014 as a competition and "not a sport". I remember seeing poker on ESPN, also no a sport. Is there any update on ESPN's stance? 64.72.40.86 (talk) 00:03, 7 October 2022 (UTC)

Why is this protected?

Latest comment: 2 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

I tried looking at the archived talks and couldn't find it. Why is this article protected? 64.72.40.86 (talk) 00:03, 7 October 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Research Process and Methodology - FA22 - Sect 200 - Thu

Latest comment: 2 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

  This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 22 September 2022 and 8 December 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Luciuszlt (article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by Luciuszlt (talk) 16:36, 22 October 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 June 2023

Latest comment: 1 year ago2 comments2 people in discussion

change "Esports often takes the form of organized, multiplayer video game competitions, particularly between professional players, individually or as teams." to "Esports often takes the form of organized, multiplayer video game competitions, particularly between professional players, individually or as teams and is part of a larger ecosystem. [1] " 2A0A:A543:1C0A:0:6D08:FC14:4326:6081 (talk) 20:02, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

  Done Alyo (chat·edits) 21:10, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ Werder, Karl (June 2022). "Esport". Business & Information Systems Engineering. 64 (3): 393–399. doi:10.1007/s12599-022-00748-w.
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Esports/Archive_2&oldid=1238767276"