Talk:Esplanade Reserve

Move proposal

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved -- JHunterJ (talk) 20:58, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

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The Esplanade (Perth) → Esplanade Reserve – To be precise, the parkland and reserve is called "Esplanade Reserve"[1], which is what this article describes. It was previously known as "Esplanade Recreation Reserve". The reserve includes Alf Curlewis Gardens and the Allan Green Conservatory, neither of which are mentioned here (yet). "The Esplanade" is a road, which quite likely will have an article of its own given that it is separately notable from a historical context, as well as gaining increased arterial importance as a result the proposed traffic changes. Moondyne (talk) 05:03, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

• Alternative suggestions: I suggest "Esplanade Reserve (Perth)" or "Esplanade Reserve (Australia)" or "Esplanade Reserve (Western Australia)", possibly with redirects from other names. I make this suggestion for greater clarity, as there are lots of places in the world that are called "Esplanade". —BarrelProof (talk) 16:57, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

The Esplanade exists as a disambiguation page and this page is (and would) be listed there. Per WP:DISAMBIG, we generally we only add disambiguating words for the purpose of disambiguation—in this case "Esplanade Reserve" is unique. The Esplanade (Perth) could remain as a redirect to assist searching (until the road article is written of course). Moondyne (talk) 05:20, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

There were also other features not yet named or described that used to be on the reserve - the Bowling Club the Croquet club and proximity of other features close to the reserve hasnt been full explored yet...

as to the move - agree with moondyne - The/ Esplanade Reserve - looks good - I would object to anything like 'Australia' as a qualifier, and due to current issues related to the word Perth - would suggest it is not used SatuSuro 05:14, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

When did it stop being a heritage listed public space?

After these edits we have

The Esplanade Reserve ... was a heritage listed public space ...

The reserve was established in 1880 ...

... a major redevelopment of the Perth waterfront area, ... planned to begin in April 2012.

We should probably state explicitly:

• when it stopped being a heritage listed public space
• when the redevelopment began

(These may or may not be the same date.) Mitch Ames (talk) 11:23, 10 January 2014 (UTC)

not so easy. better to edit out the old stuff. deliberately obtusified. try hansard under perth waterfront or esplanade reserve.

• [2] can be read to be imply the metro redev authy dept of planning were doing a redev on the reserve as early as 2011

satusuro 12:23, 10 January 2014 (UTC)

I've copied satusuro's post of 12:29, 10 January 2014 (UTC) below from my talk page, so that all of the discussion is in one place. Mitch Ames (talk) 12:53, 10 January 2014 (UTC)

Once again, wrong end of the stick... check all the links in the refs for the page - almost all now longer linked... ie heritage etc... - there is as much in sorting out lost links - which might in turn lead to the govt killing the heritage listing and the reserve etc etc - gotta think sideways on this stuff - also hansard and other things too... satusuro 12:29, 10 January 2014 (UTC)

"...deliberately obtusified... gotta think sideways on this stuff "

Or we could just clearly state what the reference says - that it is heritage listed.

When we have an actual reference that says it has been delisted, then - and only then - should we change it to "was heritage listed". Mitch Ames (talk) 12:59, 10 January 2014 (UTC)

try finding a link at heritage wa that mentions it. satusuro 13:11, 10 January 2014 (UTC)

I found an entry that says it is listed ("permanent"ly), but I can't find anything on that page that says it was previously listed but is now delisted. Mitch Ames (talk) 13:25, 10 January 2014 (UTC)

that is weird. satusuro 13:44, 10 January 2014 (UTC)

Feel free to post a link to a reference that says it was de-listed. Mitch Ames (talk) 14:00, 10 January 2014 (UTC)

I see the article has changed to the past tense again, but the ref still doesn't give any indication that it has been delisted. Again, I invite the editor to provide a reference that matches the new text. Mitch Ames (talk) 13:55, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

unasked for transfer from a talk page

removed part of message as there was no request to move

(removed)

That scheme amendment has now been gazetted, officially transferring statutory planning authority for the Elizabeth Quay project area to the MRA (effective 1 August 2012), and the design guidelines have been adopted.

http://www.mra.wa.gov.au/Projects/Elizabeth-Quay/About-the-Project/FAQs/

that took about 1 minute to check - please try some sideway thinking when challenging my edits. thanks satusuro 01:08, 15 February 2014 (UTC)}}

http://www.mra.wa.gov.au/Projects/Elizabeth-Quay/About-the-Project/FAQs/ does not appear to mention the name Esplanade Reserve at all. It doesn't state that Esplanade Reserve has been renamed, nor does it mention it being delisted from the heritage register.

So we have an article saying "Esplanade Reserve was a heritage listed public space", with a reference that says it is permanently listed and no statement in the article that explicitly says why the Esplanade Reserve is no longer a heritage listed public place. The closest we have is "... a major redevelopment of the Perth waterfront area, subsequently named Elizabeth Quay, including the Esplanade,..."

So I've reworded the lead section to state explicitly why it is no longer a heritage listed public space. Mitch Ames (talk) 14:13, 15 February 2014 (UTC)

It was a personal message - not appropriate noting as a matter of courtesy I dont ever move others personal messages into general space for any reason without asking, I dont hang my undies out in open wp en space and dont expect others to do so.

Esplanade reserve no longer exists. The vesting in the WAPC - then the MRA was a specific annulment of the former reserve status, and the elizabeth jellyfish pond is now under the MRA.

If the articles and issue were to be a bit more intellectually honest a deeper dig into the issues might reveal that it was

(a) first vested with WAPC, http://www.planning.wa.gov.au/1213.asp - then

(b) p. 3704 GOVERNMENT GAZETTE, WA 31 July 2012 PL404*

etc etc will introduce provisions into the Redevelopment Scheme for the Elizabeth Quay Project through addition of the Project Area to the Scheme Maps, the inclusion of a project vision, precinct statements of intent and preferred and contemplated land uses.

The Amendment comes into effect on 1 August 2012 and will transfer statutory planning authority for the Elizabeth Quay Project Area from the Western Australian Planning Commission to the Metropolitan Redevelopment Authority (MRA).

A careful read of the MRA website about the change from Esplanade Reserve to Victoria Quay also can be found in the absent comments on the website

During February and March 2008, a broad public consultation program resulted in approximately 1,600 submissions, of which the majority of respondents supported development of the area. Significant additional consultation was also undertaken between February and May last year regarding the proposed changes to the Metropolitan Region Scheme to rezone the land to ‘Public Purpose Special Use’.

The current plan is the result of this extensive consultation and detailed and carefully considered planning with State Government agencies, local government, industry bodies and key stakeholders. The masterplanning process led by the State Government has been subject to three independent peer design reviews including leading local and national design professionals and a public consultation period on the draft Design Guidelines and a proposed Scheme Amendment occurred in 2012. That scheme amendment has now been gazetted, officially transferring statutory planning authority for the Elizabeth Quay project area to the MRA (effective 1 August 2012), and the design guidelines have been adopted.

Also see http://www.parliament.wa.gov.au/C8257837002F0BA9/%28Evidence+Lookup+by+Com+ID%29/60CB8A071919E9C048257888000767A6/$file/final+transcript+23+march+2011.pdf for the version of the WAPC vision they had for the development.... The MRA got it off them...

Even more interesting after the opponents no longer had to be listened to, but the number crunchers had their time http://www.parliament.wa.gov.au/C8257837002F0BA9/%28Evidence+Lookup+by+Com+ID%29/03CFFFED6EE7F64148257AA100189826/$file/pac121017+2.pdf

satusuro 15:19, 15 February 2014 (UTC)

External links modified

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