Talk:Eruca vesicaria

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Arugula

Arugula 103.153.117.66 (talk) 15:03, 24 November 2021 (UTC)

Welcome, and thanks for the input. Could you elaborate? Eric ^talk 15:07, 24 November 2021 (UTC)

Article should be moved

Move to arugula, rocket would be fine also. Plants used in food should be under common name. 75.172.112.177 (talk) 02:52, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

As American English and Commonwealth English have differing common names then the binomial is probably the most appropriate title to use. Quetzal1964 (talk) 18:02, 10 April 2023 (UTC)

Italian article not linked in languages

I tried fixing the link but I can't see what the problem is. The Italian article is https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eruca_vesicaria Brian Fenton (talk) 12:21, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

I just tried to add it to the Wikidata page that is associated with this article (https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q5395935#sitelinks-wikipedia), but, as usual, after re-discovering how to do so via the unhelpful interface there, I got an error stating my edit could not be saved. The issue stems from there being two Wikidata pages related to E. vesicaria. I've submitted a conflict report here. Eric ^talk 14:31, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

"Either A, B, C, and D"

I am unable to determine the original intended meaning of "with either burrata, bocconcini, buffalo, and mozzarella cheese." If anyone knows what was intended, perhaps they could fix it. The construction "either A, B, C, and D" has 2 basic problems: (1) "Either" should be followed by 2 alternatives, not 3 or 4. (2) The 2 alternatives should be contrasted by "or" rather than linked by "and". Also, I'm pretty sure "buffalo" is out of place here, being the common name of at least one type of undomesticated bovine animal. "Pij" (talk) 07:19, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

Move to common name

I’d prefer arugula, especially if a British person can confirm that name is in any use there. rocket is fine also. Common plants and vegetables should NEVER be under binomial, The name of the article is meant to be understood, very very few people can recognize binomials off hand so it’s not a useful title WP:COMMONNAME 97.126.89.248 (talk) 23:01, 9 September 2023 (UTC)

While I understand your point, I think there are too many common names for that to work in this case. I think this is a good example of the utility of WP:REDIRECT. Eric ^talk 02:08, 10 September 2023 (UTC)

Redirect still works at a common name. I think WPcommonname takes precedence to avoiding an argument. A lot of people will read this article and will recognize a name like rocket or arugula. To 99.99% of people the Latin name is meaningless, there is a reason guide books and physical encyclopedias have the Latin name second, it’s because it’s not as important. 97.126.89.248 (talk) 16:27, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

One complicating aspect is the fact that multiple species are referred to by the same common names, e.g. Diplotaxis tenuifolia. Eric ^talk 17:13, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

Requested move 18 September 2023

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

No consensus to move. After much-extended time for discussion, there is no consensus for a move at this time, due to objections to the proposed title on the grounds that it is one of several regionally divisive "common names" for the plant, and that is sometimes used as the name of a related but different plant. BD2412 T 01:43, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

Eruca vesicaria → Arugula – Articles for plant articles with a one to one correlation with a culinary product should always be at a common name, see WP:FLORATITLES. This article is currently in violation of wikipedia policy. I want to stress there is NO policy or precedent supporting the use of scientific name in this article, similar articles with ambiguos common names are at one of those names not at the scientific. The reason this article is not properly named is from people seeing the British/American fights in articles like Maize or Zucchini, the relevant policy WP:ENGVAR also support the title being at one of the names in question. I do not think people will get into a big fight about this move, people do not seem up in arms for the name Rocket. If in this move request people are actually upset and think the name should be Rocket(plant) or something, Please pick a fight in the comments below. I would rather this article be at rocket then in latin, I won't argue for why Arugula is better than rocket because I don't feel like it matters. I have not seen evidence that people will get into a fight about this, so it feels like a nonissue. There is a cabal of people on wikipedia who want every article to be at Latin name who I feel like take advantage of situations like this to push Latin name which is against policy, weirdly elitist and makes article naming inconstant because almost all common plants and animals are at a common name. If you really want the name rocket then you can put in a move request whether or not this move succeeds or fails Always beleive in hope (talk) 17:17, 18 September 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 14:10, 27 September 2023 (UTC)

I don't find the use of Latin binomials to be elitist; I find them useful for clarity. Did you see my post just above this section? I think in this case there is an argument for sticking to binomials and using redirects from common names to the various species. Re arugula vs rocket: I can't speak for how many anglophones outside of the US recognize arugula, but I can say that most Americans are not familiar with the term rocket as referring to a salad green. So I think picking a single common name as an article title could be tricky for this reason as well as because of the many-to-one aspect. Eric ^talk 18:31, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

Adding, for what it's worth, Google's ngram viewer shows the term arugula first appearing in the English corpus in the mid-1970s. Eric ^talk 18:33, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

Elitist isn’t the right word, but I do see it as a sort of gatekeeping because preferring Latin names doesn’t value accessibility. Wikipedia is for everyone, children use Wikipedia. People who want to know about arugula as a food might see the Latin name title in google and think the article is purely botanical and look for a different source of information. Always beleive in hope (talk) 19:23, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

• Support per WP:COMMONNAME. Rreagan007 (talk) 21:27, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

Interesting to see the page that Google renders as the search result. And to see what their "see results about" link above the main display produces. Google appears to be evolving to cater to people who use it as their start page for anything they do on the internet. I don't look up things like this on Google. My first stop for something like this would be Wikipedia or ITIS, depending on my goal. In my opinion, we should not be in the business of structuring the encyclopedia to complement or accommodate Google. I think if someone looks up "arugula" or "rocket" here, it might be best to take them to a disambiguation page that lists the species for which those are used as common names. Eric ^talk 20:14, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

the policy Commonname is not about accommodating google directly but about accommodating the average reader. Google is one way that a reader might find this article as well as directly searching wikipedia and following article links. Being directed to an article with a scientific name can give readers pause, having to read further to see they are on the right article or assuming the article focuses solely on botany. To someone who reads a lot of wikipedia on similar subject having a binomial name as the title to me is a mark of a low quality article (which this is) because the wikipedia policy is so definitively commonname that you do not see high Quilty articles on similar subjects that use a binomial. All that is pretty moot though because the policy's on commonname and Floratitles, are extremely clear that a binomial is not the appropriate name. Also you bring up a good point about multiple species with the same common name which is a good reason why Rocket would be a worse name for this article than arugula, Arugula seems specific. Always beleive in hope (talk) 19:08, 20 September 2023 (UTC)

Actually Diplotaxis tenuifolia does appear like it's sometimes called arugula but from what I've found, it's almost specified "wild arugula", "Perennial arugula" or "Roquette arugula" so I think this would be remedied by mentioning in the lead and a direct at the top to either the article or a disambiguation page, but I don't think links should direct to a disambiguation because Arugula without a prefix almost always refers to Eruca vesicaria and directing to a disambiguation would confuse that fact. Always beleive in hope (talk) 19:22, 20 September 2023 (UTC)

It seems I did not make my above points clear. I do not see how looking up "arugula" on WP and being led to a disambig page listing the different species as binomials could be problematic. Eric ^talk 03:48, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

It's problematic because this is the main plant called arugula, the other is a plant sometimes marketed as arugula. A disambiguation page would make the problem with a binomial name worse. 99.99% of people do not sight recognize binomial names, If they were redirected to a disambiguation page that listed binomials people would click on the article for Diplotaxis tenuifolia when they meant to be reading this article. This should be the main subject and at the top of this page should have a redirect like ""Garden Rocket" redirects here. For wild or perennial arugula see Diplotaxis tenuifolia". Disambiguation pages should generally be avoided anyway 97.126.89.248 (talk) 17:25, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

--- Always beleive in hope (talk) 17:26, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

• Support per WP:COMMONNAME. Always beleive in hope, I have collapsed part of your nomination statement. Edward-Woodrow • talk 13:59, 24 September 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose moving from a scientific name to a vernacular name on the sole basis of WP:COMMONNAME. COMMONNAME is not a mandate to avoid scientific names. It calls for the name commonly used in reliable sources. Is that name for this plant Rocket (plant), Arugula or Eruca vesicaria (and are the vernacular names precise and unambiguous?). Rocket vs. arugula is politically loaded in the United States ([1]). Plantdrew (talk) 04:11, 25 September 2023 (UTC)
• Support per nom.--Ortizesp (talk) 05:03, 25 September 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose per above arguments, and per WP:COMMONNAME 3rd paragraph: Ambiguous or inaccurate names for the article subject, as determined in reliable sources, are often avoided even though they may be more frequently used by reliable sources. See also the footnote there on ambiguous. Eric ^talk 12:52, 25 September 2023 (UTC)

  Arugula is not ambiguous. Rocket would be. Red Slash 22:51, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose per WP:ENGVAR which instructs us to look for commonality when different parts of the English speaking world have different names for something (in this case arugula vs rocket). Jenks24 (talk) 13:37, 27 September 2023 (UTC)

  1. The text of this article already calls this plant arugula
  2. There is no commonality, no neutral name, that clause of engvar doesn't apply.
  3. There are many many articles that have names of British or American English, there isn't precedent for not having an article at a natural name because of engvar.
  4. This isn't an engvar problem because literally nobody has advocated for the name Rocket, if people actually cared then the text of this article would not use the name Arugula

  Always beleive in hope (talk) 01:34, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

  In different parts of the English speaking world it is called different names. Where I live in Australia for example it is overwhelmingly called rocket. And the article is sourced to say that is true for most other countries in the Commonwealth. So there is a clear ENGVAR issue. But in all countries the scientific name is the same, that is the commonality, and is it neutral because it doesn't preference any one variety of English over another. Jenks24 (talk) 07:18, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

  Thank you for confirming that people call it rocket, nobody had advocated the term and I felt like I was loosing my mind. Even so, the section on commonality almost certainly assumes vernacular name, commonality would be something recognized by people who speak both English varieties, a Latin name is recognized by neither. Always beleive in hope (talk) 17:41, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

Note: WikiProject Plants has been notified of this discussion. ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 14:10, 27 September 2023 (UTC)

Note: WikiProject Food and drink has been notified of this discussion. ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 14:10, 27 September 2023 (UTC)

• Support Researching this, it seems the current (Latin) title is not the most common (or "correct") Latin title, and arugula is an extremely popular term even compared to the most common Latin title. So the title needs to be changed and arugula wins on WP:FLORACOMMONNAME so should be the title. Also arugula wins on grounds of WP:CONCISE, although that is less of a consideration in flora discussions.
  • In n-grams it seems "Italian cress", "rocket lettuce", "arugula lettuce" are all at broadly similar usages (although in increasing order). Then above that is "garden rocket" (old British name, popular in 1800's, currently ~2x more common than "rocket lettuce") and "salad rocket", and the Latin name Eruca vesicaria at 10x more common. Eruca sativa is 7x more common than Eruca vesicaria. But then way above that is just plain "arugula", 44x more common than Eruca sativa.
  • According to Google Scholar, "Eruca sativa" has 21,400 results, "Eruca vesicaria" has 5,520 results, and "Arugula" has 15,900 results. The recent papers [2] using "arugula" do mention the scientific name "Eruca sativa" but mainly use arugula in the text. I would thus say that scholarly usage of the Latin name is not significantly more common than use of "arugula".
  • According to [3] "Eruca sativa" is the proper Latin name and "Eruca vesicaria" is simply incorrect. This is backed up by the n-gram and Scholar analyses.
  • With regards to WP:TITLEVAR, it seems that awareness of the differing names is growing and arugula is starting to be recognized as a valid name in countries traditionally calling it rocket, e.g. Australia. Also "rocket" is just an ambiguous term in general (currently in use at rocket, even in a botanical context it refers to several species of plants) so it wouldn't make a good title. I don't find Plantdrew's source convincing; it simply uses "arugula" throughout so doesn't weigh in at all on the naming debate, other than suggesting the use of arugula. It would make a good section to add to the article though.
  • Regarding Eric's comments about ambiguity, it does not seem that "arugula" is ambiguous. The article discusses only one botanical species, and "arugula" identifies this species as precisely as the Latin names. Contrast this with for example maize where renaming to "corn" has been proposed multiple times but opposed on the grounds of being ambiguous in certain countries. Certainly there are similar plants that use arugula in the name but I think it is common sense that a "silver beet" (chard) can be a different plant from a normal beet. Mathnerd314159 (talk) 02:55, 28 September 2023 (UTC)
    • For me, the crux of the issue is that E. sativa/vesicaria is not the only plant species for which arugula is used as a common name. This is further complicated by the engvar aspect. So we have a many-to-many relationship between multiple common names and multiple Latin binomials (themselves in multiple genera). Eric ^talk 12:11, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

      This is contradicted by the studies I mention which use arugula specifically for Eruca sativa. Do you have actual evidence (peer-reviewed reliable sources) that arugula is used for other species? Mathnerd314159 (talk) 18:16, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

      I don't have sufficient passion regarding this to list peer-reviewed sources, but if you would like to see some, you could try here: Google Scholar articles containing both arugula and diplotaxis. Note re peer review: Contrary to what many people believe, it is not tantamount to certification. Perhaps worth noting that several WPs treat their languages' equivalents of rocket as comprising multiple species de:Rucola, es:Rúcula, fr:Roquette#Plante. FYI, ITIS gives wallrocket as a common name in its entry for D. tenuifolia. Eric ^talk 19:26, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

      That is a good way to query for it, but if you limit to 2023 papers as I did [4], there are only 42 results, already suggesting that usage of arugula to mean Diplotaxis is uncommon. Going through them, the majority refer to Diplotaxis tenuifolia as "wild rocket" and the mention of arugula is secondary. There is only 1 result [5] which lists arugula as Diplotaxis, and it is just some non peer-reviewed slides. The slides are not even consistent - earlier he uses [6] as the image for arugula, which per the Commons description is Eruca sativa. This is why I specified peer review, because non-peer-reviewed sources are typically of much lower quality. So the conclusion I draw is that, although it does exist, the use of "arugula" to mean Diplotaxis tenuifolia has become incredibly rare, is not an "encyclopedic" usage of the term, and such usages are often in an ambiguous context where what is meant is all rocket-like plants. Mathnerd314159 (talk) 22:15, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

Strong support per Airplane and many other examples where we just up and picked one that people actually use rather than something absurd like powered fixed-wing aircraft. And just like Elevator, Tire, etc. when one variety's term is ambiguous and yet the other variety's term isn't, we go with that second one. Red Slash 22:53, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

Yes, people in the United States have used the term arugula for this plant for the past five decades. The anglophone community's use of the plant goes back much further than that. Eric ^talk 00:44, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose per WP:FLORACOMMONNAME which states the same type of plant may be called two different vernacular names in different regions (which seems to be the case here) However, since both regions also refer to the plant by its Latin scientific name, that scientific name is actually more commonly recognizable than either of the vernacular names. Eucalyptusmint (talk) 20:32, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

  This is incorrect though, as I have stated usage of "arugula" is 44x more common than usage of either of the scientific names. What WP:FLORACOMMONNAME describes as "the typical case" is not the case here. Mathnerd314159 (talk) 22:16, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

  Yes, I understand that since, in general, plants are known by their common names vs scientific. But in this case, it looks like that's what this policy seems to be saying, "don't confuse WP:COMMONNAME with common name" (vernacular name). In the comment below you noted that you "get 243 results for rocket salad, 245 for arugula salad, and 278 for arugula". These results aren't that drastically different which, to me, shows all of them are commonly used depending on where one lives. This is also seems to be what some of the other editors are saying about what it's generally called where they are. So per WP:FLORACOMMONNAME that means the scientific name is actually more commonly recognizable than either of the vernacular names. Jenks24 has also nicely summed up the same, "in all countries the scientific name is the same, that is the commonality, and is it neutral because it doesn't preference any one variety of English over another". Eucalyptusmint (talk) 15:57, 1 October 2023 (UTC)

  "These results aren't that drastically different" - I don't think that's a valid conclusion. Over many searches, I have observed that Google consistently returns around 200 results. But nonetheless there are differences - for example a very specific/long query gets only 146 results, and a very general query "human" gets 165 results. So I think the number of returned search results is, like the estimated number of results, also completely meaningless and simply a reflection of Google's query algorithm. But if we are going to try to use these numbers, then it makes sense to scale them to a percent between the minimum (146) and maximum (278) - then we get 73% for rocket salad, 75% for arugula salad, 100% for arugula, and I also checked the Latin names - 207 (46%) for Eruca sativa and 180 (25%) for Eruca vesicaria. The difference between rocket salad and arugula salad is negligible but the other differences are not. Based on these numbers, both rocket and arugula are 2-3x more commonly recognizable than the scientific names.

  And you are still misreading WP:FLORACOMMONNAME. That policy is written for describing "uncommon" plants where they are not encountered in the grocery store. In that case, the majority of information about the plant is in botany journals, and these botany journals do indeed primarily use the scientific name, only mentioning vernacular names in passing. But WP:FLORATITLES specifically states there are exceptions, namely "plants with an agricultural, horticultural, economic or cultural role, or use that makes it more prominent in some other field than in botany". As all the results I have shown have agreed, arugula has a significant agricultural role outside of botany - most of the information is about how to eat it, how to use it in recipes, the best way to cultivate it for flavor, etc., and they refer to it as rocket or arugula, because they are talking about it as a food, rather than a plant.

  And as Always believe in hope stated, there is no policy favoring neutrality in article titles. It is simply the most common title that wins (subject to regional considerations). There is a clause in WP:TITLEVAR saying "Very occasionally, a less common but non-nation-specific term is selected to avoid having to choose between national varieties", but the stated example of soft drink never actually went through a move discussion, I am unable to find a real move discussion where this clause was used, and so far there has not been much argument on using arugula over rocket because it is more specific. Mathnerd314159 (talk) 20:02, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

• Strong oppose as per Eucalyptusmint above. In culinary use in the UK, I've never seen or heard "arugula" used. The use of Google hits as argued by Mathnerd314159 is totally biased, since it doesn't check the use of "rocket". For "rocket salad" I got 76.2M hits, for "arugula" 54.4M. Considering that other combinations could be used to narrow the use of "rocket", it's clear that this is more common than "arugula". So if a move were to be made (which I repeat I oppose), it should be to "Rocket (salad)" or some such. Peter coxhead (talk) 09:19, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

I agree, Peter. It seems obvious that rocket in its various formulations is the original English term, derived from ruchetta and/or roquette, used to designate multiple species of Brassicaceae. Later, in the 1970s, the American formulation arugula appears. Eric ^talk 12:01, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

Heres my problem Eric, I strait up don't know what you believe. You have changed your stance a lot to however it suits you. You started with "there are two names so it can be neither" then you figured out that arugula might be kinda ambiguous so you changed your argument to that. Now you agree with Peter? Now the fact arugula is bad because it was more recently taken from the Italian American community? Do you want the article to be at Rocket? or do you think the article should be at scientific? Are you British? This opinion directly contradicts your other constantly changing opinions Always beleive in hope (talk) 06:53, 1 October 2023 (UTC)

I don't believe anything. And I have no idea what you are talking about re changing my stance or what suits me. My whole point all along has been that arugula is ambiguous. So is rocket. Both terms are used to designate multiple species. The many-to-many relationship invalidates the the notion that arugula = E. vesicaria. Eric ^talk 21:03, 1 October 2023 (UTC)

Sorry my I think my last message was too aggressive. I get the impression that you don't live somewhere where the term arugula is common. Right now I could go to any of the grocery stores near me and they would all be selling Eruca vesicaria and it would be labeled arugula. Even if Diplotaxis tenuifolia is sometimes called PERENNIAL ARUGULA, Eruca vesicaria is very commonly sold in America and it is always called arugula. The name isn't ambiguous. I think arugula can only be seen as ambiguous if you conflate it with rocket which has more uses then arugula does Always beleive in hope (talk) 00:08, 2 October 2023 (UTC)

No problem. You are forcing me to reveal my personal arugula history, now obscured by the mists of time. At the risk of straying into forum territory, this might help explain our differing perspectives. Our story opens at the twilight of the last millenium...

The Circuitous Voyage of the Rocketship Arugula: One Man's Leafy Green Origin Story:

Of all the terms in my head for these zesty, definition-resistant leaves, arugula was probably the first I encountered, at home in U.S., and I was probably vaguely aware that it referred to a salad green. But my first concrete memory is 30-plus years ago, when Italian friends introduced me to rucola (also ruchetta) on a kind of pizza. Probably during the same era I learned that German uses Rucola (which I later learned, per de.wp, had been adopted from the Italian after a resurgence in popularity of what had been traditionally called Rauke). I probably encountered the English rocket and French roquette not long afterward. If you can follow the de, es, or fr articles I linked above (also it:Eruca_vesicaria), they will be helpful in embracing the ambiguity. I suppose you might make a case for a wp Arugula entry, defining the term as a common name used in the U.S. strictly for E. vesicaria/~sativa, I don't know. Eric ^talk 10:18, 2 October 2023 (UTC)

I understand the issue better now, it seems like in Europe there are a number of vegetables that are equated one of them being E. vesicaria. Even if there is no specific term for E. vesicaria in areas this plant is indigenous to Arugula is specific. It seems like arugula is a good name because it was only borrowed in the 70's and has no long history. Arugula in America is a highly commercial crop, it doesn't describe any native garden herbs used in the same way. Always beleive in hope (talk) 00:12, 6 October 2023 (UTC)

I didn't use Google hits, I used n-grams and Google scholar. As discussed in WP:GOOGLETEST "Google searches may report vastly more hits than will ever be returned to the user, especially for exact quoted expressions." In recent years they have become even more useless - the estimated number of search results seems to reflect commonality of the individual words rather than any pages. So of course since per [7] "rocket" is rank 4126 but "arugula" is rank 19031 there will be many more estimated results for rocket. Measuring actual results by repeatedly clicking "more results" until I get to "In order to show you the most relevant results, we have omitted some entries very similar to the NNN already displayed.", I get 243 results for rocket salad, 245 for arugula salad, and 278 for arugula (using a private browsing window and setting my region to the UK).

Google Scholar runs on a different platform and from what I can tell the result numbers are accurate. I get 100 pages of results for "rocket eruca sativa" and 100 pages of results for "arugula eruca sativa". Notably the estimated results are 7600 for rocket and 3930 for arugula. But when I limit to papers published since 2023 I get 456 results (45 pages) for rocket and 319 results (31 pages) for arugula. Certainly if the choice was on popularity alone it might seem from those numbers that rocket is a better choice. But if you look at the papers in the searches, we see that several of the results for rocket are like "rocket salad (Eruca sativa, Eruca vesicaria and Diplotaxis tenuifoli)", or use arugula as the primary name and mention rocket in passing, whereas the papers for arugula do not have any ambiguity (always referring to Eruca sativa) and many use it as the main way of referring to the plant. Mathnerd314159 (talk) 03:09, 1 October 2023 (UTC)

honestly I'm Kinda relived you came out swinging so hard with the stupid and passionate engvar argument this should've been. Rocket(herb) would be a way better name than the scientific, but worse than arugula, rocket is way less specific. Original name isn't the policy, common name is. the word Arugula is borrowed from Italian, America has alot of Italians, Italians use a lot of arugula. Qo figure. Etymology is moot. It's commonname not firstname. This article needs a vernacular name, arugula makes more sense. 97.126.89.248 (talk) 06:38, 1 October 2023 (UTC)

"And just like Elevator, Tire, etc. when one variety's term is ambiguous and yet the other variety's term isn't, we go with that second one." Red Slash 08:07, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

• Mild oppose If this were the case of there being two or three common names but there were no strong divisions along national lines I would want it to be at the most common of the common names. However, since there is a Commonwealth vs. American division I'm mildly in favor of leaving this at the Latin name so we're not showing excessive preference for American English over the rest of the English speaking world. Before a move happens we could more completely talk about which common name(s) to use in what way to be neutral and encyclopedic. 🌿MtBotany (talk) 21:21, 3 October 2023 (UTC)

  It is not really Commonwealth vs. America. Per a study of the above 2023 papers and their author's national affiliation, besides the US, the plant is called arugula in Argentina, Australia, China, Indonesia, Libya, Malaysia, Poland, Romania, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Taiwan, Ukraine, and Uzbekistan. Meanwhile it is called rocket in Algeria, Benin, Cameroon, Colombia, Croatia, Cyprus, France, Greece, Hungary, Pakistan, Serbia, South Africa, Spain, and Sweden. It is called both rocket and arugula in Brazil, Czech Republic, Egypt, India, Iran, Iraq, Italy, and Turkey. Here is a map. As you can see, the usage patterns are somewhat complex and do not really follow neat boundaries. Mathnerd314159 (talk) 02:22, 4 October 2023 (UTC)

  That is very interesting. Though it also makes the issue as clear as the summer sun. Though I won't be making any jokes about tennis balls and treasure.

  Ignoring the name of the article for the moment, do you have a preference on usage within the article, @Mathnerd314159? Obviously when/if taxonomy is added it ought to be Latin binomial but should other sections be rocket or arugula? Or split 50/50? Something else? 🌿MtBotany (talk) 04:22, 4 October 2023 (UTC)

  When I was reading the papers I noticed a variety of usage patterns. Some introduced it as "arugula (Eruca sativa)" but then called it E. sativa throughout, some similarly did the same thing but with rocket as the common name, and some followed the opposite pattern of introducing it and then referring to it as arugula/rocket in the body. I would say for Wikipedia the usage in the article should probably follow the article title. There is already a section on Etymology - part of the issue is that the plant has like 100 different names, both common and Latin. IMO Wikipedia doesn't really need to add to the confusion and should just pick the most common name (arugula, per the n-gram statistics) and stick with it. Mathnerd314159 (talk) 04:59, 4 October 2023 (UTC)

  Arugula it looks like would be the only viable common name because Rocket seems like it's the name of a number peppery tasting leafy green. 97.126.89.248 (talk) 00:02, 6 October 2023 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Taxonomy should be fixed

Eruca vesicaria and Eruca sativa are two different recognized species. (Please see https://powo.science.kew.org/taxon/urn:lsid:ipni.org:names:1137625-2 and https://powo.science.kew.org/taxon/urn:lsid:ipni.org:names:1110374-2). "Eruca vesicaria var. sativa (Mill.) Thell." is a synonym of Eruca sativa (https://powo.science.kew.org/taxon/urn:lsid:ipni.org:names:3279353-4) and "Brassica eruca L." is also a synonym of Eruca sativa (https://powo.science.kew.org/taxon/urn:lsid:ipni.org:names:324634-2). Loupeter (talk) 18:07, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

I think this page should be about the genus because the taxonomy seems unclear (even wether this genus even has multiple species) and no other species has an article —always believe in hope 97.126.89.248 (talk) 02:54, 13 October 2023 (UTC)

Growing cycle

Could you add how long does it take to cultivate from sowing to harvest? Wiki-tom76 (talk) 18:04, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

Redirect page has more languages

Eruca sativa redirects here but has twice as many language entries linked, this is confusing and it blocks languages from being added here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.186.97.15 (talk) 15:02, 20 March 2024 (UTC)