Talk:Erbil

Spelling

Was there every any discussion and/or consensus reached regarding the transliteration of اربيل‎/ھەولێر I believe that "Erbil" is the most common rendition. - Ledenierhomme (talk) 08:59, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

I agree. And Erbil is the way the city offically spells it as well. Iraqi (talk) 07:47, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

Yes, if you see their Airport codes are also with E, for IATA its EBL for ICAO its ORER, and the official airport logo itself uses the acronym/letters EIA, so Erbil is the official and correct spelling, request article header be changed back to Erbil as was before.119.155.45.212 (talk) 10:20, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Of the people who live there and/or control the country, the guys using Arabic call it Arbil and the ones using Kurdish call it Hewler. Erbil is the Ottoman Turkish transcription. I get that makes it more common in sources from the early modern period and I get we should follow the local official name, especially if it's historically common in English, but why are they still using a transcription from the wrong language? — LlywelynII 18:11, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

all the civilizations in this region call this city "erbil, arbil, urbil" and so on. the only person to call it different are the kurds. they call it hewler.

in a historic context how can someone argue this is a kurdish city. i think this is everything but kurdish. {{subst:unsignedIP93.192.205.214|17:06, 17 January 2012 (UTC)}}

Ancient city

I'm fairly certain Arbil/Erbil/Erbala was a city long before the Median Empire. Wasn't it part of the heartland of the Assyrian Empire, along with Assur, Nimrud and Nineveh? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.203.194.207 (talk) 13:58, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Historical accuracy

This article has been hit by so many waves of alternating Assyrian and Kurdish CPE that you can't tell what is what. Hopefully some neutral party with knowledge in this area can fix it up.Ploversegg (talk) 17:51, 8 April 2010 (UTC)ploversegg

'Name' section be renamed 'Etymology'

Would 'Etymology' be a more appropriate section header than 'Name', as in the main article? After it, the paragraph details the origin of the word etc. If you want a reply from me, just find me at my talk page. Cheers, ANGCHENRUI ^Talk♨ 15:52, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

No, it wouldn't. Fixt. — LlywelynII 18:12, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

Areas around Erbil

Having been in Erbil in October 2010, I used the wikipedia page for much of my things to see information, and when I returned I updated the page extensively with things to see in surrounding area. Don't have a problem with it being removed, but where would a more appropriate location be for that kind of information as it seems a shame to remove it entirely instead of resorting it to somewhere more appropriate. Natalyamarquand (talk) 20:22, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

Being the one who removed that section I can answer this question. The section in what you called "the surrounding area" contained descriptions of places all over Iraqi Kurdistan (some of them tens of kilometres away from Arbil), with many of them already having their own pages (for example Shanidar Cave, Rowanduz, Shaqlawa, Koi Sanjaq). It was simply a listing of tourist info without any relevance to Arbil itself. There were one or two places that have been removed that do not have their own page, and I don't think that's a real loss since there were no reliable sources on them anyway. If you do feel that these places should be on Wikipedia, give them their own page, but do not include them in the Arbil article unless they are actually located in Arbil. The sights in Arbil itself (the citadel, the museum, Minaret Park etc) are of course still described in the article. I hope this answers your question. -- Zoeperkoe (talk) 20:54, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

Template:Location map Iraq Arbil

FYI, there is now a Template:Location map Iraq Arbil to locate places and buildings. -- Zoeperkoe (talk) 16:41, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Coordinate error

{{geodata-check}}

The following coordinate fixes are needed for

Hi,

You write: WGS84 36° 11′ 28″ N, 44° 0′ 33″ E 36.191111, 44.009167 UTM 38S 410913 4005601

Of course the UTM zone cannot be 38S but 38N as the latitude in NORTH!

—95.170.202.51 (talk) 10:41, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

 Declined — Following links through GeoHack to Wikimapia apparently point to correct place. Feel free to relist (just remove the "tlc|" from the link), and explain more clearly what you mean, especially when you say "you write". You write where? — TransporterMan (TALK) 20:50, 11 May 2011 (UTC)

Recent name change

Recently, the name of this article was changed from Arbil to Erbil, Iraq. I undid this move. I don't mind whether the article is called "Erbil" or "Arbil", but "Erbil, Iraq" is simply wrong since there are no other places called Erbil and there is therefore no need to add the country name to it. If you want to move "Arbil" to "Erbil" (which is a redirect and can therefore not be moved without assistance), please use [1]. Hope this helps!--Zoeperkoe (talk) 19:50, 24 February 2012 (UTC)

Thank you, all road signs in Iraq spell it Erbil, so I dont know why wiki opted to change the title to Arbil when it was correctly titled Erbil when the article was made. 139.190.137.93 (talk) 18:53, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

Standard Arabic. Erbil is the Ottoman Turkish form, so it's unclear why they're still using it for official purposes. — LlywelynII 18:13, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

Arbela

This city, mostly notable for it’s classical-era history, should be called Arbela, it’s classical era name.

http://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=Arbela%2C+Hewler%2C+Erbil&year_start=1800&year_end=2008&corpus=0&smoothing=3

More common according to Ngrams, as well. OttomanJackson (talk) 22:19, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

The current name is more commons in English.--Rafy talk 21:30, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

Nah, the historical city could be dealt with at its historical name and that era might see that name get used a bunch in English, but the modern name of the modern city is going to be Arbil, Erbil, etc. — LlywelynII 18:14, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

Etymology

The etymology offers, without citation, the idea that ur bela may mean 'high city'. Undoubtedly uru (iri) does mean 'city' in Sumerian; but I have no idea where bela comes from. In addition to being two syllables which would be unusual in this case, bel is not a Sumerian word either. Searching for possible transcription variance, bil primarily means 'burn' and obscurely 'sour'; and bal means primarily 'to turn'. There is nothing remotely similar to bel(a) acting as an adjective 'high' in Sumerian. Without citation I suspect it is essentially an overzealous fabrication - and it should be removed. Michael Sheflin (talk) 00:27, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

Let's remove it then. Chaldean (talk) 07:25, 4 July 2012 (UTC)

Ethnic groups

how about ethnic groups in erbil. how many christians, arabs, kurds, turkmen live in erbil? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.6.136.228 (talk) 00:05, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

Reliable population statictics

Does anybody have a reliable source for how many people live in the city? The article currently says 1,5 million without a source. A fast Google search reveals a wide range of claims from just over a million to 2 million. Is there a recent source that has an accurate estimate? ~ Zirguezi 22:37, 10 May 2014 (UTC)

someone cited a website but still brought wrong numbers, since I don't know how to edit that or maybe I'm not privileged to do so ,yet. you should check this website: http://www.citypopulation.de/Iraq-Cities.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by SirwanV (talk • contribs) 20:42, 2 December 2017 (UTC)

Incorrect link

Regarding subsection Twin cities, Arbat, Iraq. The link to Arbat redirects to a place in Moscow, Russia. On the disambiguation page, there are many places in Iran with that name. Where is that twin city actually located? --Mortense (talk) 19:47, 11 June 2014 (UTC)

Slaw Halwest20049 (talk) 00:31, 5 June 2019 (UTC)

Turkish: Erbil

I think the turkish name of Erbil is not necessary for the introduction. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Moplayer (talk • contribs) 11:56, 12 September 2014 (UTC) >This city was under Assyrian and Turkish influence for a long time. I think that both Turkish and Syriac name are needed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.9.217.221 (talk) 09:17, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

This is an Kurdish city, so why Turkish name for it.. Turkish language is not offical in Iraq... If you can add Syriac name. Selocan49 (talk) 00:00, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

Because it was part of the Ottoman Empire through the early modern period. The Ottoman Turkish (not modern Turkish) name belongs in the article, but it can go in the #Name section and/or #History instead of the lead. — LlywelynII 18:15, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

Requested move 24 January 2015

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved. ErikHaugen (talk | contribs) 07:33, 1 February 2015 (UTC)

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Erbil → Arbil – See "The Concise Dictionary of World Place-Names" (3.Ed),Oxford University, 2014, ISBN 9780191751394. Quote: Arbīl, (Iraq) Urbillum, Arba Elu/Arba llha, Arbelles; Evolved from the Babylonian name '(The City of) Four Gods' from arba 'four' and ilan 'gods'. The Greeks called it Arbelles. It is also spelt Irbīl. The de facto Kurdish capital, it is largely populated by Kurds and they call it Halwer. DerHandelsreisende (talk) 21:07, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

Weak oppose The town presents itself as Erbil. GregKaye 13:02, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

• Strong oppose WP:NOTDICT Wikipedia is not a dictionary. WP:UCN I have never seen "Arbil" used in news reports, it's always "Erbil" ; Indeed Google shows that "Arbil" [2] and "Irbil" [3] are rare forms. Erbil [4] is orders of magnitude higher un usage. -- 65.94.40.137 (talk) 09:52, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
• Comment. According to BGN, the systematic transliteration from Arabic would be "Arbīl". "Erbil" is the conventional (English-language common name) for the city.[5]. This ngram shows the two forms running even. NotUnusual (talk) 11:26, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
• Strong oppose 3.1 Non-neutral but common names is given here. Furthermore:

==> Recognizability – The title is a name or description of the subject that someone familiar with, although not necessarily an expert in, the subject area will recognize. --> Erbil

==> Naturalness – The title is one that readers are likely to look or search for and that editors would naturally use to link to the article from other articles. Such titles usually convey what the subject is actually called in English. --> Erbil

==> Precision – The title is sufficiently precise to unambiguously identify the article's subject and distinguish it from other subjects.--> Erbil

==> Conciseness – The title is no longer than necessary to identify the article's subject and distinguish it from other subjects.--> Erbil

==> Consistency – The title is consistent with the pattern of similar articles' titles. Many of these patterns are listed (and linked) in the box of Topic-specific conventions on article titles.--> Erbil

Google: "Erbil" (with quotes) --> 17,100,000 search results.

Google: "Arbil" (with quotes) --> 562,000 search results.

==> 'Erbil' is more common in English media. WP:COMMONNAME

The user already tried in the German Wikipedia to change the name to Arbil and he/she has failed.

--Moplayer (talk) 18:58, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

Erbil is also a firstname and lastname so the used statistics can be misinterpreted without knowing this. e.g. google books ngrams are no strong argument for erbil, because a lot of authors have lastname Erbil. + On http://geonames.nga.mil/namesgaz/ you can search for Arbil and find Arbil and Hewler as official "approved" names for the city("seat of a primary administrative division (PPLA)") and the gouvernement ("primary administrative division (ADM1)" ; Erbil in both cases is classified as conventional or variant. --DerHandelsreisende (talk) 11:46, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

The first 50 search results in Google refer to the city. Again, consider WP:COMMONNAME.--Moplayer (talk) 13:11, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

A BGN "conventional" name trumps an "approved" one for our purposes. See NCGN#BGN. NotUnusual (talk) 13:18, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

Oppose a move. There is a comment higher up the page that all the road signs in Iraq say Erbil. If the city calls itself Erbil and there is no massive evidence that another name is more common in English, there is no reason to change. Legacypac (talk) 03:26, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Removing Assyria templates from Iraqi Kurdistan cities

We talk about which Assyria ? Ancient Assyria or modern Assyria ? Well, ancient Assyria is exist but an modern Assyria state or autonomous region is doesn't exist. Kordestani (talk) 18:07, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

Who is Robin the Great?

The article has been edited with a claim the city was 'found' (founded?) by Robin the Great. No citation. So who is Robin the Great? Davidbstanley (talk) 14:17, 22 May 2018 (UTC)

A cheeky vandal. — LlywelynII 18:17, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

Erasing Assyrians

Can we please do something about all the Kurdish ultranationalists who constantly edit this page removing any reference to Assyians? It's getting ridiculous. The city was founded by Assyrians and continues to have an Assyrian minority to this day. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sam41ir (talk • contribs) 16:25, 8 December 2018 (UTC)

Requested move 25 August 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved (non-admin closure) ~SS49~ {talk} 12:52, 2 September 2019 (UTC)

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Erbil → Arbil – more common in literature[6] 42.127.66.162 (talk) 21:23, 25 August 2019 (UTC)

• Oppose – Erbil has about 23.100.000 results on Google, while the number is 2.660.000 for Arbil. --Ahmedo Semsurî (talk) 22:11, 25 August 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose – This has been discussed and rejected before. Davidbstanley (talk) 07:09, 26 August 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose – Virtually every travel guide that is not in Kurdish uses Erbil. - AH (talk) 06:15, 30 August 2019 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 7 February 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Not moved (non-admin closure) (t · c) buidhe 23:52, 13 February 2021 (UTC)

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Erbil → Hawler – From studying Sorani and researching the history of Kurdistan Region, it is clear that the local name of the city to its residents, and to the majority of people living in Kurdistan Region, is Hawler, versus the foreign Arab name “Irbil” for the city. Propose renaming the article “Hawler” to reflect the name as it is called by its residents and by the greater Kurdistan Region, the same way as the article on Kyiv is named “Kyiv” (the local, Ukrainian name of the city) versus “Kiev” (the Russian/former Soviet name for the city). AFAIK this is consistent with Wikipedia’s policy of preferring national/local names for cities, versus the names imposed on them by foreigners, colonists, outside empires, and/or conquerors. Full disclosure: I have no personal bias/partiality toward this subject; proposing this change out of a good-faith impartial concern for NPOV. PowerPCG5 (talk) 00:31, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

Oppose AFAIK this is consistent with Wikipedia’s policy of preferring national/local names for cities, versus the names imposed on them by foreigners, colonists, outside empires, and/or conquerors. I'm not sure which policies you've been reading, but WP:COMMONNAME evidently was not one of them. For what it's worth, the reason the "Kyiv" move took place only recently was that there were not nearly as many English-language sources using that name, say, five years ago. If there comes a point in time where the Kurdish name here is similarly demonstrably the most common one in English for the city, then such a move is justifiable, but that time is not now.

By the way, I figured I should probably address the inevitable: don't you (or anyone else) dare accuse me of being an Arab nationalist sympathiser or whatever simply because I'm disagreeing with this particular proposal. M Imtiaz (talk · contribs) 00:37, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

• Oppose unless evidence is provided that the proposed name is the common one. Also, the years long Kyiv/Kiev dispute wouldn’t have been anywhere near as controversial if Wikipedia policy explicitly called on us to use local names (ie the move to Kyiv would have happened years ago). The proper course of action here should be find evidence that the majority of English language sources are regularly using Howler over the current name and then we have a good case. This reasoning is why The Kyiv move was finally successful and once a similar trend can be demonstrated that would be the time to move this article.--65.92.160.124 (talk) 02:41, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose. Wikipedia does not prefer local names, it prefers to use the most common name used in English for a particular topic. No evidence has been presented that demonstrates that the proposed name is more common than the current title. Rreagan007 (talk) 03:06, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose per all above In ictu oculi (talk) 14:36, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose. Erbil is the clear common name. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:07, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose I don't see any English coverage using "Hawler" as the name. There is no policy of "preferring national/local names for cities", otherwise Bangalore would have been moved years ago. 75.162.124.147 (talk) 17:25, 10 February 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose - per IP above me 🔥LightningComplexFire🔥 17:32, 12 February 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Thank you to everyone who took the time to contribute to the above discussion.  —PowerPCG5 (talk) 05:55, 14 February 2021 (UTC)

Jewish Neo-Aramaic name

For anyone with edit access: could you add the Jewish Neo-Aramaic name ארויל (ʼArwil)<ref>{{cite book |author1=Yona Sabar|title=A Jewish Neo-Aramaic Dictionary: Dialects of Amidya, Dihok, Nerwa and Zakho|date=2002|page=100}}</ref> to the languages at the beginning? Looks like Lishanid Noshan (lang-aij) is the closest recognized dialect in the code. Nevermiand. (talk) 18:57, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

No, but it could certainly be added to the Wikidata entry. — LlywelynII 18:20, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

Climate

It seems like summers are lasting from May to October. Which it make sense to me as a middle eastern person. דולב חולב (talk) 12:36, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

Looks like I accidentally thanked you.

October is a bit transitional because temperatures are dropping and rainfall starts.PAper GOL (talk) 14:08, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

Haha. Anyway, even may is more transitional. In October the temperatures stays relatively high, and the rainfall barely starts. (12mm per month it’s nothing, it’s basically a dry month). And as person who lives not very far away from Erbil, it make sense to me. At my place October is also kind of a summer month. Even November is still transitional at my place. דולב חולב (talk) 01:58, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

Yeah both of these months are hot, but look carefully at those figures, from September to December there is rapid drop in temperatures, almost 20 degrees, and we also have minimum figures below 20. Humidity levels are quite higher than mid-summer.PAper GOL (talk) 07:41, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

Yeah… but a daily mean of 24°C and daily mean maximum of 31.5C in May…

sounds pretty much like a summer to me. דולב חולב (talk) 08:02, 2 March 2024 (UTC)