Talk:Environmental determinism

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 16 August 2021 and 17 December 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): CJTheReader.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 20:45, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Saw2188, Kevinmccarthy25.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 20:40, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Some comments

Hi Saw2188 and Kevinmccarthy25, this is a huge improvement over the previous page, on an ambitious topic. Here are some reflections and suggestions for improvement:

• I made some edits to the article for clarity and accuracy and organization that you can see. You need to be careful about
• The sources and authors for future improvements are good suggestions. But they seem to be covered here (except for Barrington Moore) so I'm not sure if these are out of date)
• I thought the history of thought piece was nicely done
• The Ecological and geographic impacts on early state formation section is good, though I felt some of the discussion of Herbst needed editing and clarification, and I made some edits
  • This section is nicely done but each of the subsections seems to emphasize one thinker alone rather than bodies of work. I grouped Herbst and Alsan under a common subsection on Africa
  • This discussion could be linked to the state formation page. I added a main page link but I don't think the two pages talk to one another. Likewise the state formation page could link to the environmental determinism page.
• Effects of geography on institutions
  • I renamed the section "Effects of geography on political regimes" because "institutions is not a colloquial term with meaning
  • The section omitted AJR, which I added in brief, but this could be developed
• Direct effects
  • This section tended texjkryctuxrzekyxr,u.ctxrzkxu,i.ctxrzkxu,lticxrkuztizukxlticyxtuzrxtlzkxtzyrkxuxjdkutrdi7ythrxtzjeykxthtuyfctfho mix up the role of trade versus climate. I fixed a little but it could still use improvement. The ideas go back to Adam Smith if not earlier.
  • "Effects of terrain on economic development" did not seem to belong under the institutions heading, so put it under direct effects. But this could use some cleanup and fine tuning.
• The last section "Climatic determinism and colonization" seems out of place
• The lede could probably explain the substance a little more, even if only a few sentences.

Chrisblattman (talk) 18:08, 11 May 2016 (UTC)

Sources and authors for future page improvements

1. Barrington Moore.
2. Include longer discussion of the scholarship of David Landes, including The Wealth and Poverty of Nations.
3. "Responding to State Failure in Africa" by J. Herbst
4. "Institutional and Non-Institutional Explanations of Economic Differences" by Engerman and Sokoloff
5. "Geography and Economic Development" by John Luke Gallup and Jeffrey D. Sachs

--Sarah Whittenburg (talk) 05:13, 8 May 2016 (UTC)

Is this up to date? Some of these seem covered.Chrisblattman (talk) 18:08, 11 May 2016 (UTC)

Bad Article

The article repeatedly states that it has been debunked in academic circles but I don't see any convincing arguments as to how exactly, or links to the opposing views that have supplanted environmental determinism. Saying it's bad because it justifies colonialism or racism or whatever does not say anything as to whether or not it is actually valid, but I can't really see any other "reasons" as to why it is considered "debunked." Not to mention, how can it possibly be "racist" if it posits that the it's the environment that shapes human culture and development, not heritable traits. Reading this feels like I'm reading an article on genetic determinism by mistake.

There is also way to much space taken up by Jared Diamond's work. Put a link to his pop-history book somewhere, sure, but I'd rather hear from the opinions of the authors from the time period when environmental determinism was actually considered a relevant approach.

It's generally a very verbose article, with too much devoted to it's criticism or perceived negative consequences. That aspect should be contained within its own section, not sprinkled throughout the whole thing. 50.71.184.223 (talk) 23:59, 27 September 2016 (UTC)