Talk:Enterprise (slave ship)

Page title

Other commercial ships with common names seemed to have article titles of Name (year). If the year this ship went into service is known, the article should be moved to Enterprise (YEAR). davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 01:49, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

Haven't come across the year yet.Parkwells (talk) 17:09, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

Categories

Please keep the category: "Maritime incidents in 1835," as this has relations to other incidents of this period in the British West Indies - where the British freed slaves from American ships in the domestic trade. RLamb found a terrific new book about this topic and relations between the US & Britain over slavery, where the latter became a kind of ally of American slaves.Parkwells (talk) 17:17, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

DYK hook, sources, etc.

Have found that archives of the Royal Gazette and other newspapers are available at the Digital Library of the Caribbean.Parkwells (talk) 19:08, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

The Bermuda National Library has scanned images of pages from the newspaper online, but I've made little progress in searches.Parkwells (talk) 22:04, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

Hi Parkwells, thanks again for the massive improvements to the article. I am resolved to learn how to add references in a consistent way. As to a 'hook', no I haven't given it any thought as I don't know much about them. I've come up with 'Did you know that in the 1830s Bermudians used new British anti-slavery laws to release 72 black Americans from a slave ship driven ashore there by a hurricane?'

A bit of a fudge perhaps since they also used 'habeas corpus' and I suppose the Enterprise was really a general cargo vessel; but I hope it shows the Bermudians acted effectively, and within the law. If you know how to make it clearer and hookier though, please do.RLamb (talk) 08:15, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

Just had to edit my proto-hook as I referred in it to 'Bermudans'; whereas it should be 'Bermudians', as any fule kno.RLamb (talk) 12:18, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

Came across some more background stuff at http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=ATq5_6h2AT0C&pg=PA340&lpg=PA340&dq=%22comet%22+slave+ship&source=bl&ots=5MQ7o4YOA1&sig=Le8D6jhftpteXZ8GrcyBK94raRo&hl=en&sa=X&ei=VQhgUarCGNGb0AXAvYG4Bg&ved=0CDMQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=%22comet%22%20slave%20ship&f=false

and

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=XTLFKrmJPgcC&pg=PA279&lpg=PA279&dq=%22children+of+the+enterprise%22+musson&source=bl&ots=V8m8Oz6I_f&sig=3LG1Z-MBV1gCqZgG6Dukv1q5vQg&hl=en&sa=X&ei=HAZgUfewE8LO0QXcmYGgBw&ved=0CEEQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=%20enterprise&f=false

Also a Bermudian local historian Nellie Musson referred to it briefly in her 'Mind the Onion Seed' and wrote a short children's book on the incident too. But will adding more make the article too bloated? I can't work on it for some days and you've already been very generous with your time. I think the entry good as it stands.RLamb (talk) 12:18, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

These are terrific sources; the Horne book puts the ship incidents into a much larger context of US fears about slave revolts and losing slaves from the South to the British West Indies. He also emphasizes the actions of Bermudians and others in the islands, as well as American slaves, who acted to gain freedom.Parkwells (talk) 17:31, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

How about: "Did you know that in 1835 a Bermudian took the American captain of the Enterprise to court in Hamilton to free the ship's 78 slaves?" Still thinking about this. Parkwells (talk) 17:31, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

It got a B! I have never contributed to anything above a C. The hook is much improved - the shorter the better.

There was a tantalizing mention in The Times of 1817, about a 'suspicious' brig called the Enterprise. A British troop transport charmingly called Dorah hailed her in foreign waters. But the language of the report is so Hornblowerish I can't understand quite where their paths crossed, or why the British thought the brig 'suspicious', or even what they suspected it was up to. Here it is:

'PLYMOUTH, Sept. 16. Arrived the Dorah, from Bengal, with part of the 60th regiment on board. Extract from her log-book:- On the 13th August spoke a brig of very suspicious appearance, in lat. 13.49 N. Long. St. 35 W. At daylight perceived her standing towards us, under easy sail, being to windward: at noon the stranger hauled her wind on the weather quarter, still under easy sail, and appearing very suspicious, we hove to, and hoisted our colours, when she hoisted American ones, with a pendant, and came alongside, with guns run out, and prepared for action. We then hailed and asked her what brig that was; she said the United States’ brig Enterprise, from Buenos Ayres bound to the Straits; out 36 days. The course she was steering, the number of men she had on board, and her appearance altogether was such, that no doubt she was not what they said. At 10 a.m. observed her tack, and stand to westward.

"Ship News." Times [London, England] 19 Sept. 1817: 3. The Times Digital Archive. Web. 9 Apr. 2013.

Unfortunately Enterprise seems a very popular name for a ship. RLamb (talk) 18:04, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

Yes, sounds like a military ship. Interesting, though, looked up the ships, and there was no US military ship Enterprise listed (at least not in WP). Had not tried to figure out the geographic location by the coordinates, but maybe it was the ship out of Alexandria, roaming around. Parkwells (talk) 18:25, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

Possibility of a series

With the Enterprise and Creole case, and references to the Hermosa in this period, as well as the earlier Comet and Encomium, there appears potential for an article on, say, "British Liberation of American Slaves in the Caribbean", or "British Liberation of American Slaves from Ships", with the others linked to it in a series. Or "British Application of Ban against Slave Trade", "Trouble in Paradise: British-US Relations in the Caribbean" (but of course this is not a book or TV series; couldn't resist it, though). You have found some excellent sources. May work on some thinking without the title. It would allow some consideration of the issues without requiring them all to be repeated in each article, and the discussions were related to the actions of more than one ship. The individual articles could be the place to show the actions of individuals, and the overall article to show how governments tried to respond - and to show the continuing losses of the US due to slaves escaping from Florida.Parkwells (talk) 11:33, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

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