Talk:English cricket team in Australia in 1970–71

The Phantom

This article states, several times, that Bill Lawry was the first Australian captain to be dropped for 70 years when in fact Jack Ryder was omitted for the 1930 tour of England and Vic Richardson was dropped following his successful tour of South Africa in 1935-36. Further, this statement is puzzling: "In 1970-71 he was determined to retain the Ashes, but chose to do this by batting every match into a draw and as he neither smoked nor drank he became increasingly removed from his team". Apart from the POV about his wanting to make every match a draw, Ian Chappell and several other members of the 70-1 side have expressed the opinion that they wanted Lawry retained even if he didn't lead the side. In no way was he removed from his team and the bit about "smoking and drinking" is an irrelevant supposition. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.101.191.143 (talk) 13:51, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

I think the editor is referring to the fact that Lawry was dropped during the current series rather than before the next one. It's a point that perhaps needs to be clarified.

I agree with you about the quoted passage which must be verified or deleted. As it happens, Sky did a lunchtime special on this tour during the Test last week and Ian Chappell made clear in that programme that the team had not wanted Lawry to be removed. --Jack | ^{talk page} 14:12, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

There is a difference between a captain not being picked to lead a tour and one being dropped during a series. Both my sources mentioned that he was the First Australian captain to be dropped in 70 years. I shall amend to dropped during a Test series to clarufy the point. The other, about not smoking and drinking and being removed from the team I took from his Wikipedia page I think. I check my sources at home, Phil Jelley--62.25.109.196 (talk) 20:21, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Looking into the dropping it appears that Lawry was the only Australian captain to be dropped in mid-series. The reference to 70 years is to Joe Darling being replaced by Hugh Trumble in 1901-02, but it appears Darling only agreed to captain in teh first three Tests anyway. There was the players strike of 1884-85 when Australia called apon anew captain in each of teh five Tests - Bill Murdoch - Tom Horan - Hugh Massie - Jack Blackman - Tom Horan - but in that case it can be argued that teh players withdrew their services rather in the same manner as Greg Chappell in WSC, anyway I shall correct this.--Philipjelley (talk) 09:41, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

I have also found the quotations about Lawry being a non-drinker and non-smoker: 1) Bill Lawry wikipedia page "With Australia losing, and as a non-smoker and non-drinker, he became more distant from his own team. Lawry had been under pressure after a highly critical report by team manager Fred Bennett." 2) John Arlott's 100 Greatest Batsman: "On the India tour of 1969-70, Lawry, a non-smiker and non-drinker, with little time for social functions, was not happy. Although Australia won the series, the manager could hardly help but submit an unfavourable report; Lawry's dismissal followed during the next home rubber". --Philipjelley (talk) 09:41, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

In the end although you can find any number of references to Bill Lawry being a fine opening batsman it is more difficult to find them on his good captaincy in 1970-71, which was overly cautious. To be fair to the Phant he did not have the bowling line up to dismiss England twice in a Test with any certainty.--Philipjelley (talk) 09:41, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

Article

Relying on second rate sources, the article is fairly poor albeit wordy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Shillingford Ransome (talk • contribs) 12:28, 23 September 2014 (UTC)

Can you name the first rate sources for this series? As far as I am aware Whittington's was the only book published on the 1970-71 series. Philip Jelley (talk) 08:43, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

I think you're right about the paucity of books specifically devoted to the tour, but I'd suggest it would be worth looking at Jim Swanton's "Swanton in Australia with MCC 1946–1975", published in 1975, in which he describes all the tours of Australia that he went on. I imagine that Amazon would have second-hand copies. The 1972 Wisden report on the tour, by the acerbic EM Wellings, would also be worth referring to if you haven't already done so. It's probably available online on the ESPNCricinfo website. Within the last couple of years Huw Tubervill has produced a book called "The Toughest Tour" that covers all the post-war England tours of Australia. I wouldn't call it a scholarly work, but it contains a lot of interviews with the players. JH (talk page) 09:02, 28 September 2014 (UTC)

Hi, Philip. No, he can't name any first rate sources because he is a complete and utter twat who is here to make trouble. See User:Richard Daft. You're quite right about Whittington. Keep up the good work. 109.158.32.142 (talk) 19:38, 27 September 2014 (UTC)

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Stats

Would it make more sense to list the players statistics at the start of the tour, rather than at the end of their careers?

Presumably you are referring to the table headed "Test statistics of England Team in 1970-71". I imagine the statistics for their complete careers were much easier to come by. But whichever is used, the table ought to be annotated to say which it is (or the title amended to make it clear), as at the moment the reader is left to guess. JH (talk page) 17:03, 11 September 2021 (UTC)