Talk:En unión y libertad

Disputed

The assertion “En unión y libertad (...) is Argentina's national motto” seems to be inaccurate and lacking every evidence. Evidence against the assertion:

• The 1813 General Assembly did not enact it as a national motto, but just ordered the words to appear in the silver eight reales and golden eight escudos minted in 1813 (see the document referred in the article).
• There are no legal instruments declaring the sentence as national motto. All national symbols are established by law, and no law even mentions the words. Inclusion in category “National symbols of Argentina” is therefore wrong.
• Argentine monetary authority (Banco Central de la República Argentina), when enumerating all circulating notes and coins, states:

Banco Central de la República Argentina

— Comm."A" 3208, 01Jan2001

• Such “political slogans” were very common on republican coins since 1780; see, e.g.,
  • France, 5 francs (silver), 1796-1803: “union et force”;
  • Chile, first independent coins, 1817: “union y fuerza”, and “libertad” in the coat of arms on the same side;
  • Repubblica Ligure, 12 lire (silver), 24, 48 and 96 lire (gold), 1798-1805: “nell'unione la·forza”;
  • France, ½,1 and 2 sols (copper), 1793: “·liberte' e'galite'·”;
  • United States, ½ and 1 cent, 1793: “liberty”, etc.
  • There's also a medal, coined in Potosí on one-fourth real tokens in 1813, with the inscription: “viva / la relig. / libertad / i, union” (Long live / the relig(ion) / freedom / and, union; see Cunietti-Ferrando, Arnaldo J. (1989). Monedas y medallas. Cuatro siglos de historia y arte. Buenos Aires : Manrique Zago; p. 34).
• The sentence occurs only once in the flags, standards and banners that remain from the Independence war times: the divisional flag of Army of the Andes Cabot Division, 1817, where the words appear below the coat of arms' shaking hands (see Corvalán Mendilharzu, Dardo. “Los símbolos patrios” in Historia de la Nación Argentina, Vol. VI. Buenos Aires : Academia Nacional de la Historia; pp. 343-344.)

The issue is also under discussion in Wikipedia in Spanish. I will leave the issue open for a reasonable time, awaiting for adequate references. Thanks! Cinabrium (talk) 20:45, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

"National motto" is not synonymous with "official motto", which is the only epithet your comment seems to disprove. Argentina lacks a de jure motto, but it does have a national, de facto one. This situation is far from being unusual. The United States, for instance, has both an official motto, In God we trust, and an unofficial one, E pluribus unum. --190.19.96.181 (talk) 00:17, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

Please provide any evidence to back your statement, please. AFAICT, “En unión y libertad” is neither official nor national motto, since for being the latter it should be at least sanctioned by custom and traditional usage (which is not: besides some coins and the peso notes, where it's used as a reminder of the inscription on the first independent coins, I've not seen it used anywhere in Argentina). Thanks, Cinabrium (talk) 22:30, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

Actually the fact that En unión y libertad appears on coins and peso notes ought to be sufficient for it to be considered a national motto. Such is the case with e.g. Cuba's motto, Patria o muerte. Moreover the idea that En unión y libertad is Argentina's national motto is far from being fringe:

• El lema de la Argentina es desde la Asamblea del Año XIII "En Unión y Libertad".
• El objeto de este estudio es la divisa "En Unión y Libertad", auténtico lema nacional,
• Su lema nacional "En Unión y Libertad" y la simbología de su escudo son una concluyente síntesis de los ideales heredados de la Ilustración.

--190.19.96.181 (talk) 09:40, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

It's been over two months since your last comment. I will wait one more month for a reply and after such time has passed I will proceed to remove the template you added. --190.19.96.181 (talk) 04:26, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

The template has been removed. --190.19.96.181 (talk) 16:28, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

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