Talk:Emblem of Rwanda

Untitled

The central "tribal devices" are a basket, an ear of sorghum and a coffee branch surroundedd by two shields. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ruramaguru (talk • contribs) 13:03, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

The old coat of arms

If anyone has a picture of the former coat of arms, I think it would be helpful to feature it in the article. Josh (talk) 19:27, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Seal vs Emblem

Who moved this to "Seal"? It's an Emblem, but certainly not a Seal. Not with that banner outside the green ribbon. Fry1989 (talk) 00:52, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

Coat, emblem or seal?

Further information: National coat of arms and Armorial of sovereign states § R

• On 23 June 2007‎, Japanophile Kintetsubuffalo created Coat of arms of Rwanda. The single linked source used the terms "seal" and "emblem", but not "coat". Despite this, they titled their new article with "coat".

• The next substantive edit was by Xanderliptak on 12 September 2009, changing Coat of arms of Rwanda to National Emblem of Rwanda (corrected term).
  On 25 April 2010 Xanderliptak moved Coat of arms of Rwanda to Emblem of Rwanda: Incorrect term.

• On 11 October 2010 Gryffindor moved Emblem of Rwanda to Seal of Rwanda: "Seal" according to Article 3(2) of the 1991 constitution, see http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Rwanda#Article_3_.5BFlag.2C_Seal.2C_Anthem.5D

• On 6 March 2022 drive-by editor Juicisme changed "seal" back to "coat".

• On 7 June 2022 Eco2004 moved page Seal of Rwanda to Coat of Arms of Rwanda.

• On 8 June 2022‎ CambridgeBayWeather moved page Coat of Arms of Rwanda to Coat of arms of Rwanda: Not a capital.

• On 15 January 2023‎ Liz, responding to the speedy-deletion requests of 21:19, 14 January 2023 by W like wiki and 21:23, 14 January 2023 by BangJan1999, moved page Coat of arms of Rwanda to Emblem of Rwanda: when this page is deleted, page Coat of arms of Rwanda can be moved here. It is not a coat of arms, it dont follows the rules of heraldry, e.g. there is no Escutcheon (heraldry), see also Talk:Coat of arms of Rwanda#Seal vs Emblem.

Constitution of Rwanda §Article 3 [Flag, Seal, Anthem] says:

The Seal of the Republic shall be composed of ideograms of a dove and olive branch, a hoe and billhook, a bow and arrow, respectively symbolizing peace, work, and the defense of democratic liberties, in addition to the name and the motto of the Republic, all of it being framed by two National Flags placed opposite each other.

@Fry1989: Is the Constitution of Rwanda wrong when they call it a seal? Can you cite a source that says that official document uses incorrect terminology? wbm1058 (talk) 04:41, 16 January 2023 (UTC)

Per the official website

The Seal of the Republic of Rwanda consists of a green ring with a knot of the same colour tied at the lower edge of the ring; on the top are the imprints “REPUBLIC OF RWANDA”. Below the knot is the national motto “UNITY, WORK, PATRIOTISM”. All imprints are written in black characters on a yellow background. It also consists of: the sun, its rays, sorghum and coffee, a small basket, a blue cogged wheel and one shield at the right hand side and another at the left hand side.

Seems to me like the Constitution of Rwanda is describing a different seal. – wbm1058 (talk) 04:58, 16 January 2023 (UTC)

Hello @Wbm1058: Yes, seems so. What you think why this difference? The sited constitution text is from 2003. Do yo know if there is an updated one? If not, we need some clarification. Regards --W like wiki ^{good to know} 10:37, 16 January 2023 (UTC)

Our Constitution of Rwanda article says the 2003 version is the most recent. I'm hoping someone else with an interest in this topic can do the research and clarify. – wbm1058 (talk) 14:23, 16 January 2023 (UTC)

"quotes-from-copies-from"-cycle

Hello @Wbm1058 and Fry1989: maybe the official website is a case of "quotes-from-copies-from"-cycle? At least they are using the File from commons by user:FischX (and later Fry1989).

And for the vocabular: in my opinion emblem and seal are both right depending on what aspekt you talking. And because everybody (even goverments) can call it coat of arms this is also right. I try to explain:

• An emblem is an abstract pictorial image that represents a concept (of a state) or an allegory, or a person, like a king or saint. Coat of Arms have the same function but a distinctive shape.
• In the old times Coats of arms were symbols for a house/family/ruler in the shape of an shield (escutcheon) because they were displayed on such shields. So Coats of arms becomes the synonym for a symbol of a house/family/ruler/state even when newer symbols like national emblems not have anymore the shield shape or displaying a shield.
• A seal is a device for making an impression in wax,... with the original purpose to authenticate a document. Because the symbol of the authenticating persons/institutions were long time coat of arms the words "to make a seal on something" becames synonym to "to make your CoA on something" and in the other direction: if you see the seal of someone you usually see his coat of arms. Even when later the symbol of the authenticating persons/institutions is not anymore a shield shaped CoA.
• In Japan they dont have western shield shaped coat of arms, they have emblems called mon. But because they are also authenticating documents with seals or stamps displaying their mon, mon and seal sometimes becomes synomym, see for example: National seals of Japan.
• And because some of these symbols are not allowed to use by everybody and they are unique they becoming insignias.

Conclusion: The Emblem of Rwanda has the same function as an old coat of arms and today people are using both words synonym, even when the emblem of Rwanda is not a Coat of Arms. And because the emblem of Rwanda is round like an old seal and probably there are official stamps/seals displaying the emblem of Rwanda, people call it a seal.

Sorry for my poor English, Regards --W like wiki ^{good to know} 05:00, 22 January 2023 (UTC)

Copyright status

Please see a discussion at commons:File talk:Coat of arms of Rwanda.svg regarding the Copyright status. Thanks.  — Amakuru (talk) 11:59, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

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