Talk:Effects of cars

Word choice, citing, and cleanup

This article is definitely in need of cleanup

Uncited subsections

• Costs for nature and landscape
• Costs for water pollution
• Costs for soil pollution
• Costs of energy dependency
• Obesity

Exasperated by lack of sources also a lot of WP:WEASEL and WP:EDITORIAL throughout Negative externalities. Also WP:COPYPASTE under climate change revealed by incorrect bullet formatting, possible under Air Pollution too. Gfaster (talk) 20:44, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

I have done a bit - hope others will now take over Chidgk1 (talk) 19:28, 11 March 2023 (UTC)

Diagreeing with the move from "Externalities of automobiles" to "Effects of cars"

Hi all,

As stated above, I disagree with the move, for two simple reasons: although largely synonymous, "automobile" is more specific than "car" because it is necessarily self-propelled (whereas a car could be one of a trains wagon, for instance). OTOH, "externalities" is more specific than "effects". Apparently the move was motivated by the fact that obesity isn't primarily an externality, which is true; but if you consider the collective costs of obesity (mostly from healthcare), than it is, in fact, an externality. If we use "effect" then the article is to become much much broader, covering cultural, historical and social aspects of the invention that will make the article very difficult to keep. Rkieferbaum (talk) 21:01, 11 March 2023 (UTC)

@Rkieferbaum: Good points. As the obesity section is unclear and not cited I am now wondering if it is actually trying to say that even people who don’t use cars become more obese in cities with lots of cars - for example if they are scared to ride their bikes in the terrible traffic. So perhaps the current scope of the article is only externalities? However nobody says “automobile” nowadays and nobody uses "car" for a part of a train. Is there a more easily understandable word than “externalities” for the average reader? If not how about a name of “Externalities of cars” with a short description something like “Effects of cars on living things outside them” or “How cars affect other people and things”? Chidgk1 (talk) 07:02, 12 March 2023 (UTC)

@Gfaster: or anyone else. Other articles use the word 'car' in the name like Effects of the car on societies and may overlap a bit with this article. What do you think for name and scope? Chidgk1 (talk) 07:18, 12 March 2023 (UTC)

I think making sure "externality" is used in line with the economic definition should be suitable to distinguish this page from Effects of the car on societies. That leaves Effects of the car on societies to primarily deal with societal and cultural impacts and this article to expand specifically on the uninternalized costs of cars. Moving to "Effects of cars" would reverse this relationship, making this article the more broad one. "Externality" has a specific meaning that is addressed by this article so I do not believe a move is warranted in that respect.

As for "automobiles" vs "cars" I personally don't have as strong an opinion about. As @Rkieferbaum pointed out, "automobile" is more technically accurate, but the difference may not be great enough to choose it over "car". Since "automobile" is somewhat more technical language, the reader could use that as an indicator of the slightly more technical nature of the article and that perhaps reading Effects of the car on societies might be more appropriate for a broader overview. This stance is more in line with the titling of articles like Economics of automobile usage, Automotive safety, and Epidemiology of motor vehicle collisions. Gfaster (talk) 19:46, 12 March 2023 (UTC)

City growth?

This subsection is under the ‘positive externalities’ heading but the text seems unsure if it is positive or negative. So perhaps it should be under a new heading of “Other externalities”. Or ‘History” as is any city nowadays growing due to cars? Chidgk1 (talk) 07:10, 12 March 2023 (UTC)

Accessibility and land value

It uses wikibooks as a source - is that OK?Chidgk1 (talk) 07:15, 12 March 2023 (UTC)

Side effects of vehicles 10 lines

Kjyed 106.221.128.160 (talk) 11:37, 5 May 2024 (UTC)