Talk:East Coast of the United States/Archive 1

Archive 1

"Neutrality dispute"

I am new to editing wikipedia, but I think the following is very biased towards american superiority: The "East Coast," "Eastern Seaboard," or "Atlantic Seaboard" are terms referring to the easternmost coastal states in the United States.

Terms such as "East Coast" do not always refer to the eastern coastal area of the USA, like the article claims. For an example, I might say "Australia's East Coast" or, for short, "The East Coast", depending on context. --User:Lord fabs 19:20, 3rd December 2006 (Australian Eastern DST)

The article is on the East Coast of the United States. This establishes that we are talking about the United States and what the article is about. If you want, you can create an article about the Australian East Coast. Harryboyles 12:21, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

"Back East"

From TFA: "People elsewhere in the United States sometimes refer to the East Coast colloquially as "back east" - You know, I have NEVER heard that term come out of anyone's mouth? lol --Goatrider 18:21, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

I guess you havne't spent much time "Out West." Where I'm from, California, people always say, "Back East." Now that I live "Out East," I'm always thinking about "Back West."

I'm from California and even "back east" I never have heard anyone talking about the "Western Seaboard." Isn't this some sort of discrimination?Trisler 00:53, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

The southern states

The "East Coast" always refers to New York, New Jersey, and other northeastern states. No one ever refers to, for instance, coastal Georgia, as the "East Coast". - 65.218.235.243

I think you're right for the most part, though in some contexts the southern states would be included. Perhaps they should be a different shade. -- Kjkolb 04:41, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

I agree with that as well. Everything from Maryland down should be a different color. You could almost argue that the East Coast should link to the article on the Northeast United States.--Looper5920 04:44, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Yeah. But I disagree with including Vermont at all (they're a mountain state, not coastal), and the same with Upstate NY and western PA. No one would ever really call VT, Buffalo, Syracuse or Pittsburgh as East Coast. They're Eastern but not East Coast. So maybe we should have a procedure for including/shading only parts of states. Bayberrylane 21:32, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

I have heard people from Gulf Coast states refer to Georgia and the Carolinas as the East Coast. It is true that culturally, the Southeast is not "East Coast," but geographically, it certainly is. --CKozeluh 19:26, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Geographically speaking, I've always considered Maine to Florida the East Coast. Culturally, there is a vast difference though.

First major cities do exist below Maryland and they definitely contribute to the culture and history of the east coast including Virginia beach-Norfolk, Wilmington, charleston, and Miami. As someone who comes from Virginia beach, we definitely refer to ourselves as east coast, especially when put in comparison with the beachside communities of the west coast. I think that's what really the point is about defining the east coast- that the cultures and communities that developed along the east coast are quite different than the west coast. I think the terms south, mid-Atlantic, and new england describe broad cultural traditions that developed between states, but the term east coast specifically refers to the unique cultural history that is shared among communities that developed along the Atlantic coast. Even though these communities may be affected by the cultural aspects of the state they are located in, these Oceanside communities also share culture not defined by the states- including seafood, maritime traditions, and the tradition of the boardwalk which exists as far down as Georgia. So I think it is a fallacy to assume that the east coast refers only to northeastern states. East coast shouldn't really refer to states at all but more to the communities that are located on the Atlantic ocean —Preceding unsigned comment added by 32.165.50.27 (talk) 16:21, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

don't forget about lacross that gose down south but not to the west.--J intela (talk) 22:07, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Maryland is always considered "East Coast", and the phrase "eastern establishment" refers to New York and DC. MD isn't lumped in with the Carolinas or Georgia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.49.242.212 (talk) 05:03, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

Actually, very untrue. Plenty of people and sources "lump" Maryland in with Virginia and North Carolina. Maryland is almost never placed with any state north of New York in classifications. Very inaccurate statement you are claiming there. --173.59.249.85 (talk) 02:44, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

If a city has port access to the Atlantic Ocean, and it is a member of the union (whether or not it wanted to be), then it is by definition on the "east coast". -127.0.0.1 24 Feb 2011

I concur that the entire Atlantic coast is covered by the term "east coast". The reasons I see are thus:

1. From a purely descriptive term, East Coast distinguishes from the West Coast and from the Gulf, and encompasses little cultural elements.
2. In terms of physical geography, the Eastern Continental Divide seems to provide a really good guideline, using watershed data alone; it aligns neatly and exactly to include the disputed territories, and no more.
3. The Navbox categorizes this article under "physical geography: coast", not purely a cultural definition
4. Geographic regions (unlike political jurisdictions) are not necessarily mutually exclusive. E.g. Florida is both East Coast and Gulf Coast, in physical terms. Inclusiveness would not hurt.
5. In reference to the referred to areas, "Northeast" is a valid term that refers to these upper places, and in some contexts, the eastern megalopolis / chain of Metro areas spanning from Boston to Norfolk (where a major city is no more than two hours from another major city).
6. In terms of history and the derivative culture, the thirteen original English colonies spanned the whole section of it, not just the northeast. While there are some cultural divides between them (as a result, in part of which English sub-groups settled where), there are equal if not greater cultural divides between those along the coast, and the later inland states; hearkening back to the English colonial towns and cities(and in the case of Florida, coastal spanish),(versus forts or trading posts) is a phenomenon that is largely limited to the East Coast (the exception of missions and forts in the southwest noted), yet encompasses all these states; similarly, they all share a relationship with the Atlantic Ocean (see comment above about port access to the Atlantic ocean).
7. Many of the cultural objects seem exaggerated, as often there is a spectrum of gradiated change. For instance, Maryland is not disputed, yet it is culturally very similar and intertwined with Virginia, which is (both were tobacco-heavy economies in the 17th, 18th, and 19th centuries, sharing the Chesapeake Bay cultures). Indeed, Virginia and Pennsylvania have considerable cultural links (see e.g. "peace church" populations in the Shenandoah Valley areas, colonial sympathies, urban histories). Likewise, there are cultural divides within the undisputed region: compare Maryland and Mass. Given these considerations, the "Grit Line" alone should not be sufficient.
8. From personal experience, having grown up in central Virginia and North Carolina, we always saw it as the East coast / Atlantic seaboard, etc, especially in relation to anyone west of the Alleghenies; thus making the defining element the relationship with the Atlantic ocean.

Morgan Riley (talk) 15:17, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

Colours and appearance

I have made a proposal to change the colour of the map box, please see the discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject U.S. regions --Qirex 05:36, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

Segregated list

I would like to see a column of state names, maybe divided into consensus states and more ambiguous states. Example:

The following states are widely recognized as East Coast:

Maine

Massachusetts

etc.

These states are less clearly included:

Florida

Vermont

etc.

I think this would make the page easier to read and the links easier to find. --CKozeluh 19:26, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Maybe based off of the image? Solid states in the "widely recognized" and striped states in "less clearly included". --- Kpavery (talk | contribs) 00:52, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Original Colony descrancy

The article states that this region normally includes all of the original 13 colonies. However, many are shown in the image as striped. Which is it? Will 05:06, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

I think that it's stated in the article that the geographical term East Coast refers to the whole Eastern Seaboard, but the cultural East Coast refers to only the costal Northeast. If there's a better way to bring this out of the article, maybe we should. CSZero 14:38, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Agreed, what the east coast refers to depends on wether you consider the whole physical coastline or just what would be considered the "cultural" east coast (Northeast states, NY, NJ, CN, MA, so on). Maybe to re-write the structure so that it talks about the culture of the northeast and the east coast as a coastline seperately? --- Kpavery (talk | contribs) 00:51, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

It seems wrong to me that the wording that includes non-original states like Maine, Vermont and Washington are lumped with Florida. Maine was originally part of Massachusetts, and is of course classic East Coast, for example. Can anyone think of a way to concisely reword this? CSZero 13:41, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

History

I reverted edits today deleting the History section, since I think it's a large part of the article and needs work, not removal.

Currently, the History reads, uncited, as such:

Culturally it is also where most of the first wave of immigrants from Europe, Africa, and Asia settled before America began its western expansion. The Appalachian Trail runs through most of these states from Maine through Georgia. Historically the Mason-Dixon Line cuts this area in half at the northern border of Maryland, which still indicates a cultural change. Through the course of early United States history, the Eastern Coast was divided over many issues including slavery. In the 1860's this came to a head and the Civil War broke out. This war was fought mostly in states that would be considered East Coast states, including Maryland, Virginia, and North and South Carolina.

My comments:

The first sentence is important - The early urbanization of the East Coast and the waves of immigrants that passed through here really shaped America.

The Appalachian Trail is a factoid bit that I don't think hurts, although Wikipedia is not a collection of facts. Perhaps expansion of that section based around the range's role in shaping the nation would be good?

The Mason/Dixon I think is mentionable, although by the Civil War, there was more to the North and South than the coasts - I don't know how to reconcile that. If it is in fact true that most battles were fought in these states, that may be mentionable as well. But, the 1860 population center for the US was in Ohio, so even by then, the interior of America was somewhat important.

Of course, there's plenty other historical things about the East Coast that should be mentioned as well, or instead of some of these.

Thanks,

CSZero 02:45, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

the history section is quite poor. The immigrant sentence is wrong (Africans are not called immigrants--they were slaves), Asians almost all came thru west coast. Appalachian trail is trivia. Mason-Dixon is about slavery which does not get mentioned except as a political issue. There is nothing about economics, ciommerce, ports, Atlantic connection. It does not make sense--and it ends 140 years ago. There are no sources and few links. Most of all there is no sense of history. Rjensen 03:05, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. However, I don't think what is there is harmful so I don't think we should whipe the section when there should be a history section. I tagged it for now CSZero 14:54, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

What the hell?

Why are Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, and Flordia only striped on the map? The isn't the Northeast article, this is about the Atlantic coast!

This question is repeatedly asked about this article. My *understanding*, not being super well versed in this matter (I'm a Bostonian by the way) is that south of Maryland, when I-95 jogs significantly inland, that that happens for a reason. I'm not sure if it's related to hurricane problems, land being so low that it's basically a swamp, or simply a lack of good harbors versus navigable rivers, but I don't believe that there is a single sizable city on the southeastern coast. Savannah and Charleston are right on the coast but not very large cities (Under 200,000 residents), especially compared to the Megalopolis Northestern port cities. Something more concrete and researched about why the larger cities in the south are significantly inland (and keeping the South from being considered part of the "East Coast" as most people recognize it - a center for population, education, culture, trade, etc) would be interesting to add. CSZero 05:20, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

I missed the Virginia Beach-Norfolk-Newport News, VA-NC MSA in Southeastern VA, but in general, this probably has to do with the fall line being so far inland in most of the South? CSZero 15:57, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

The reason those states are striped is because they are more culturally linked to the South than to the rest of the East Coast. Yes, they fit into the East Coast from a strict geographical standpoint, but they fit into the South from a geographical and cultural standpoint. 68.40.65.164 05:53, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

No, they fit into both the East Coast & the South both culturally and geographically. From a cultural standpoint, states like South Carolina, Virginia, Georgia, etc. fit in quite nicely in that they were among the original thirteen colonies, have Atlantic beaches, Atlantic maritime traditions, stronger connections with Europe than non-East Coast states, etc. They do not fit into the region commonly understood as the "Northeast," but that is not what this article is supposed to be about. To be frank, the map & its false nuance make the article look dumb. --Peter ^Talk 21:31, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Jewish Influence

How is this even a section? can someone explain to me the significance? This is something very strange included here, can we delete it? Somekindofpastry (talk) 19:07, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

Atlantic Seaboard

Is "atlantic seaboard" some kind of regional term? I've never heard it before (I'm from Philadelphia). I tried googling for the etymology, but only came up with a few associations and some weather sites. 199.111.194.67 (talk) 22:58, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Question?

How can Pennsylvania and Vermont be considered as "The East Coast" when they do not even border the Atlantic Ocean? Shouldn't these states be, at least, stripped in the map? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.233.213.47 (talk) 21:07, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

north south axess

THe fact is that with migration from the north in addition to popular culter all the south eastern states are being brought into a closser culteral fold along a north south axes, in adion to their origional commonalities of being the location of the estableshment where the founding of the country was and the general greater conservitism and sophistication that comes with it, and other quirks like lacrose. The north south difference is more significant but their is also common differences along longetudes. --J intela (talk) 22:24, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Your spelling could use improvement. It is actually hard to determine what you are saying, when the spelling errors get to a certain point.--Atikokan (talk) 04:54, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

Population

You should mention that, while the East Coast represents about 36% of America's population, this proportion is declining with each Census for at least the last half-century. 2010 is no exception.
--Atikokan (talk) 05:04, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

For the moment actually, it's still 36% as of 2010, I did the math. In any case, it's not as if it's declining in population or going to stop growing anytime soon, is it really worth mentioning?Red Hair Bow (talk) 23:19, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Remove PA

Pennsylvania is not on the east coast.it's inland —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.53.247.103 (talk) 19:44, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

Disagree. Philadelphia sits at the head of a bay that drains into the Atlantic Ocean. Its waterfront is at sea level and is tidal, meaning that the rise and fall of the Atlantic Ocean's tides are significant in Philadelphia. Ocean going ships dock at Philadelphia without having to go through locks. I'm replacing Philadelphia to the list of cities. Several other cities do not sit right on the ocean, and under this reasoning would have to be deleted as well, including Burlington, Hartford, Atlanta, Richmond, Charlotte, and possibly Baltimore and Washington. Slgordon3 (talk) 01:59, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, PA is NOT the east coast, it is just near it and your petty excuse does not make it so. PA LOVES to think that they are east coast because they are near more exciting states and they need to belong. VT and PA are out. Both can be northeast, but not east coast. You need a coast to be east coast. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.233.213.76 (talk) 15:22, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

If you want to remove Pennsylvania from the list because it has no coast, then you also have to remove Connecticut because it, too, lacks a coastline. It has shoreline on the Long Island Sound, just like Pennsylvania has shoreline at the head of Delaware Bay, but no coast. See Connecticut's geography page for an explanation. Of course, both states ARE part of the East Coast despite lacking coastline, because the East Coast doesn't refer to states which touch the Atlantic Ocean, but, instead, refers to area in the eastern portion of the country that was first settled by Europeans. See http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/177372/Eastern-Seaboard. 68.162.78.97 (talk) 19:14, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

CT has a coastline that is called the Long Island Sound which is on the Atlantic. It is not a river or a lake so don't try to play the game of semantics. You inland wannabe east coast state are really reaching to make something that you do not have. Where is you "Atlantic," "ocean," "oceanside," "seaside," "beach" or anything else named after the water in PA? ALL east COAST states have something named after the water, be it a city (Atlantic City, Atlantic County, Riverside, RI or towns called "ports") or some area within the state like a "Jersey shore" or beaches. PA has none of these and being near states on the east coast does not qualify you to be a member of the club! You are in the Northeastern US, not the east coast. You may not like not having and identity, but it s what it is.--24.91.26.152 (talk) 06:21, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

Inland cities...

I've removed Pittsburgh for the list. Philly's an east coast city, but Pittsburgh is across the mountains and quite a bit further inland. I also removed Rochester and Buffalo for the same reason. It's tricky to know exactly where to draw the line...Atlanta and Raleigh-Durham are a ways inland too, but at least they're in watersheds that drain directly to the coast. The cities I removed are more part of the Upper-Midwest, like Cleveland, than they are part of the East Coast. -Helvetica (talk) 09:09, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

I disagree completely. First, cities like Buffalo and Pittsburgh still have a distinct Northeastern feel to them compared to the Midwest, and second, those cities are in East Coast states, that should be more than enough to make them East Coast cities in the North or South. At least going by states gives a standard, you can't just draw an imaginary line where you think the coast area stops, everyone would have their own stopping point. If you want to do it that way should we not consider Fresno and Bakersfield West Coast cities because they're too far inland? Hartford might be too far inland for some, Springfield? Albany?Red Hair Bow (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 09:15, 12 June 2011 (UTC).

And what exactly is the "distinct Northeastern feel" that Buffalo and Pittsburgh have but Cleveland and Youngstown, OH don't have?... Pittsburgh is practically in Ohio. You're right that it can be hard sometimes to know exactly where to draw a line, but if a city is on the Great Lakes then that's not "East Coast." If it's across the Appalachian Mountains from the coast then it's not "East Coast." The southern piedmont cities are a ways inland, but at least with them there's just flat open plains between those cities and the coast. Also, the Piedmont region is something of an extension of the "BosWash" megalopolis - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:MapofEmergingUSMegaregions.png . The state-line method doesn't really make a lot of sense. By that logic, El Paso and Amarillo would be considered "Gulf Coast cities." See Gulf Coast of the United States#Metropolitan_areas. Note that Dallas and San Antonio aren't included, much less any city in western Texas. -Helvetica (talk) 19:42, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

I was wondering where those cities went, but you can argue that they are in riverbasins which drain westward and northward rather than eastward. Hurriquake (talk) 20:50, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

I disagree. If Pennsylvania is on the list of east coast states, then that means that Erie and Pittsburgh are east coast cities. However, this is just my opinion, as I do consider Pittsburgh to be an east coast city myself but not Erie.

75.73.193.118 (talk) 22:47, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

The Map

Who created this map? Where are the sources? It is only PERSONAL OPINION that Maryland and Delaware are Northeastern. They are by formal definition by the United States government Southern. This map is tainted by personal opinion. It is NOT a factual map. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.15.93.12 (talk) 02:15, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

Scrap It

You know it seems some editors are just bent on destroying this and other related articles. So let's just scrap it. The East Coast of the US doesn't exist, there is nothing to learn or know about it, and it has no importance as a place in the US whatsoever. And we can add the Northeastern United States to this as well of course.70.172.204.219 (talk) 04:26, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

Culture/Settlements

This is how to do things. I have more to say on this matter, so I am putting it here.

BTW Hoppingalong, read this:

"While Wikipedia's written policies and guidelines should be taken seriously, they can be misused. Do not follow an overly strict interpretation of the letter of policy without consideration for the principles of policies. If the rules truly prevent you from improving the encyclopedia, ignore them. Disagreements are resolved through consensus-based discussion, rather than through tightly sticking to rules and procedures. Furthermore, policies and guidelines themselves may be changed to reflect evolving consensus." Ref: [1]

This is exactly what you are doing, esp. in this most recent 'clash', you need a concensus-based discussion. And the fact that they're incitable because they're incorrect and then removing them is just abusing the system. If they're incorrect, you dispute it or change it, not use WP:V as your weapon.

I also have more to say more-specifically regarding the article and this section, that I'll add soon.--ɱ 20:53, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

What? I think some of what you added was wrong or irrelevant. And it is new or returned by you after three years out of the article, so there was no consensus to include it. Pass WP:BURDEN and it can go back in. Read this: WP:BRD. Leaving unsourced and inaccurate or misleading stuff in articles is not the way we do things. Hoppingalong (talk) 03:44, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

If you think info wrong or irrelevant, you make minor changes (that is, not deleting an entire section) and/or mention it on the article talk. No excuse there. And 'no consensus'? THere are hardly any involved editors anyway, as you say it's a small article. And in both volume and following. And leaving unsourced information is fine, better than deleting it altogether. And innacurate things are fixed, not deleted along with their entire section. And your WP:BRD says this -

"If you have reason to disagree with the explanation given, or you don't see any explanation at all, start a new discussion (section) on the article's talk page to request an explanation for why your edit was reverted, or to present your argument. You may also wish to ask the editor directly on their user talk page. Discussion is a primary method for editors with different ideas to work out solutions."

Which means that you cannot just go at 22:51 reverting my edit. I am angry, yes. There's a wiki essay on that saying that we're all humans, people tend to get angry. Also, you love all of these rules, advised strongly against here- WP:3LA. Listen to that essay, whoever wrote it is smart.--ɱ 04:00, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

And you practically made 3 reversions anyway. Not entirely, but essentially. Please put the information back, really. All of the people on the Dispute Resolution were saying that the info should be preserved. And I significantly changed the wording so it is more accurate. Your challenge was not to that text, it was a text not modified by me. So really your claim of removal due to challenge isn't accurate.--ɱ 04:04, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

You must not have read WP:BURDEN. Just clarify, correct, contextualize, and cite to Reliable Sources and we will have consensus. Hoppingalong (talk) 04:08, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, I've read it. And I've read plenty of other policies and essays that say otherwise, esp. when it comes to content dispute. That's what this is about. The direct issue. Which means using talk and/or non-drastic edits. You can't snake around discussion by claiming that because the content is wrong it can't be cited and everything needs deletion. You seem to so often use WP:V and BURDEN as your handy and so versatile tools, using them as a reason for incontestable deletion, no community discussion necessary whatsoever.--ɱ 04:18, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

But I am glad that you are using talk. And you'd have no idea how annoyed I'd be if you were still this way against me and on top of that made terrible and nonconstructive edits. At least you have good faith.--ɱ 04:20, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

WP:BURDEN is part of a policy, WP:V. If the information is true and relevant, you should have no problem adding Reliable Sources, as I have done to several other facts in the article. We will not need to discuss; I will agree with you with a smile on my face and gladly defend the edits to any terrible, terrible Wikipedians who would then remove it. Hoppingalong (talk) 04:24, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I have little to no problem with adding refs, yet I do not believe you can or should sneak around and use those policies as multitools. This is a content dispute, not a ref one. And in the case of that Nov 6 22:51 edit, I changed the material so you really had no right to delete it without challenging it again, which you hadn't done.--ɱ 04:33, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

Start-class?

Who labeled this start-class? We still have practically more headers than text underneath them. And that's embarrassingly pathetic, in the non-critical sense of those words. I'd suggest reverting that and returning the US Geo stub template to the article.--ɱ 04:12, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

It seems like more than a stub to me, WP:STUB. But it is no big deal. I will put it back. Hoppingalong (talk) 04:15, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

Major Cities

It may be unclear to you about 'what this adds', but articles about regions do list the biggest cities by population within that area. Next time you're confused regarding how extra information regarding the topic is important in the article of that topic, use the article's talk page. You're way too 'trigger-happy' when it comes to reverting useful and reliably-sourced information. Also, the data about Baltimore and Boston isn't wrong, even according to your linked article. You were viewing a 2011 estimate. The 2010 official US census has Baltimore listed as larger in pop. than Boston. Anyway, that's a very poor and skewed judgement to cite that wiki article; as a reliable source is something to base information off of, a wikipedia article isn't. Wikipedia even states that an editor cannot use a wiki article as a reliable source in other wiki articles. Also, yes, I agree that the definition in the lead section could be better. It could be a lot better. And it should be.--ɱ (talk) 20:19, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

I did not cite a Wiki article as a Reliable Source, merely noted it in an edit summary to point out that the information you wanted to add would itself need a Reliable Source. It does not have one. Worse yet, the text ("five largest cities") is contrary to the latest estimates. It is wrong. It also contradicts the definition given in the lede. (I agree that that definition needs to come from Reliable Sources, too--it doesn't--but that is what we have for now.) If the Census Bureau or similar weighty Reliable Source for U.S. population data notes the five most populous (largest could also mean area) cities on the East coast, that would be a great source to add. And why five cities? And why not metro areas? What other article lists five cities. I am going to remove it again. Let's work toward consensus here before reinserting this new text. Hoppingalong (talk) 01:18, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

So yes, you didn't specifically call the wiki article a reliable source, but you claimed that the info on that page must be correct over the info of a reliable source, which is lousy judgement. Secondly, are you stating that the info doesn't have reliable sources? The info has two reliable sources. Thirdly, my info may contradict the lead section, but you don't just delete it because of that, you really need to get into the habit of making a minor edit to one or the other. Why can you really not understand that one needs to make minor changes to fit standards instead of deleting whole sections, which is oftentimes information that people spent good effort on? That really, really ticks people off. And the lead section doesn't actually need reliable sources whatsoever, in fact it's discouraged to use inline cites in the lead unless necessary, as the info in the lead is always restated with greater depth and cites later on in the article anyway.

Fourthly, sure it would be ideal if a site did list cities just on the east coast in order by pop., but I've looked extensively and found nothing. Fifthly, don't bother mentioning area, area is 100% insignificant in these regards, population is always consistently used as the scale for cities in a region. And you ask, why five cities? Well, should we name them all? No. Five is a good number that people are interested in. They don't want to see a long list that'll take up the whole page. And metro areas, like area as a measurement, is just not how cities are scaled either. I do agree with some of what you're saying, and therefore propose making a list similar to that of this article - Third Coast. Regarding your whole 'work towards a consensus'; although it sounds pretty, it's essentially saying 'I'm getting it how I want it, until you satisfy me enough with your work that I deem it worthy enough for conclusion'. Which I think is rather selfish, to be honest. Oh, and I apologise if you consider my frankness as just being rude, but I just trying to convey my opinions in the clearest way; and truthfully partially because I am upset with your unfailing tendency for reverting worthwhile edits as opposed to using one of the many alternatives (minor changes, user talk, article talk, etc., etc.), any of which are much better options.--ɱ (talk) 02:16, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

Dubious claim

"The 14 states which have shoreline on the East Coast are, from north to south, the U.S. states of Maine, New Hampshire, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Connecticut, New York, New Jersey, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, and Florida.[5] Vermont, though it has no Atlantic coastline, is considered among the "Eastern Seaboard" states"

It seems rather odd to claim that Vermont, which is 100 mile from the sea, is an "eastern seaboard" state, but Pensylvania, whose main city is located on a salty tidal river, isn't ( according to the above list ).Eregli bob (talk) 10:10, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

Vermont is generally considered East Coast because all of New England is usually considered East Coast. I don't know why Pennsylvania isn't listed.Red Hair Bow (talk) 01:38, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

Penn has no coastline, it only has access to the Atlantic through the Delaware, that was the stated reason why the editor left it out.--ɱ 01:56, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

Pennsylvania is a lot closer to the coast than Vermont is.Eregli bob (talk) 07:17, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

I've never met anyone who didn't think PA was an east coast state. Either way, everyone with a brain knows Philadelphia is east coast, that should be enough for PA. CT only has access to the Atlantic through Long Island Sound which isn't technically open ocean and no one seems to have an issue with that.Red Hair Bow (talk) 08:09, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

Yes, CT is a state that apparently doesn't have a coastline on the East Coast. Philly, when you look at a map, has NJ in front of it, so although the city is not located on the coast like Norfolk is, it does have access to the coast via the Delaware river. So CT and PA are states with indirect access to the coast, and VT has no access to the coast. Those I believe are the three contested states that the editors aren't sure how to put in this article.--ɱ 15:10, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

This map seems to like that CT has no coastline. Would others think that this a good map to use as a template for an article map? It'd take some editing of course, but it shows what states have coastline pretty well. [2] Regardless, the article editors, including Hoppingalong, might want to consider removing CT from the article, unless PA and VT are added in full if we go with the broadest definition of the 'East Coast'.--ɱ (talk) 16:10, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

I always thought (never having lived on the East Coast) that the term mainly referred to the urban northeastern megalopolis. The Carolinas or Georgia never seemed like the "East Coast" even if they are clearly on the Atlantic Seaboard (just as "West Coast" tends to imply Los Angeles or San Francisco rather than northern California or Oregon). 71.40.255.78 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 22:46, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

Demographics

I'm interested in which major cities on the East Coast are within 216 feet of sea-level (ie: and I guess including Penn.), and how many people that affects.

Also, how many people/major cities are within 15 miles of the coast. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.223.63.120 (talk) 17:52, 22 April 2014 (UTC)

The claim about 38 percent of Americans live on the East Coast may not be correct. I am seeing that as Americans live on the East Coast and not East Coast Americans... Sorry first time putting in my input. Please don't yell at me if I am doing something wrong... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.250.187.195 (talk) 10:12, 28 August 2014 (UTC)

~ender 2014-04-22 10:35:AM MST

East Coast or Eastern Seaboard or Atlantic Seaboard?

In popular usage, "Eastern Seaboard" or "Atlantic Seaboard" refers specifically to the Northeast and the Mid-Atlantic states, and doesn't include the Southeast. See, for example: http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/177372/Eastern-Seaboard.

Should the article not reflect this? It seems a bit confused and confusing at this point. --TimothyDexter (talk) 19:38, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

Capitalization

The capitalization in this article is inconsistent. At different points for instance it says "eastern seaboard", "Eastern seaboard", and "Eastern Seaboard". I will not fix it simply because I cannot find a definitive reference for which one is correct. The best I found was http://www.proofreadnow.com/blog/bid/30440/North-East-South-or-West-Capitalize-or-Not which does not provide a definite answer. But it seems it should be at least consistent inside the article. Timothyawiseman (talk) 21:48, 2 October 2014 (UTC)

Is this article about the entire East Coast, or only Boswash?

There was formerly a map representing the entire East Coast of the US, from Maine to Florida. That map was removed and replaced with a lead map in the infobox of only the part of the US from Boston to Washington DC.

I call BRD on that. Since a Bold edit was Reverted back to the old limited Boswash map, let us Discuss it here.

I propose that the main map used in the article infobox be one that encompasses the entire East Coast of the US, from the northernmost state (Maine) to the southernmost state (Florida). N2e (talk) 01:27, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

• Support, as nom, per the rationale provided above. The map should match the article scope. N2e (talk) 01:27, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
• Partly support. I agree per the nomination that the whole East Coast should be reflected, but I am not sure that the full map that was there briefly actually covered the same states as the article exactly. Nonetheless, I agree a "BosWas" map is not right, and the whole East Coast should be reflected. Since there appears to be a consensus that the BosWas map is wrong, I will remove it. Maybe editors can suggest replacements that fit the article? Hoppingalong (talk) 19:58, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

Super. Sounds like we are both in agreement that the BosWash map that has been in the article is not okay. And that was my first concern. After that, I merely selected a map I could find in WikiMedia that showed all the east coast US states. I have no problem if a better map is found. N2e (talk) 04:43, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

 Done — I have added the image below, as that is the best image I could locate of the entirety of the East Coast states.N2e (talk) 02:12, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

Um, did you not read? "but I am not sure that the full map that was there briefly actually covered the same states as the article exactly." I also think the map is bad. Not only was it created using WP:ORIGINAL RESEARCH, but the states that people consider part of the East Coast will always vary, so this map is far from being entirely factually correct even though right now it is placed and worded like it is factually correct. Please remove it.--ɱ (talk · vbm) 03:22, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

ɱ is right; N2e must have misunderstood. I do not support this map. Since there is no consensus for it, I'll remove it. Hoppingalong (talk) 05:04, 25 April 2015 (UTC)

Potential maps that might work

Here is one map, labeled "US map-East Coast", found in WikiMedia. If there are other/better ones, great. N2e (talk) 04:43, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

States that makes up the east coast of the United States

Pensylvania

Pensylvania is listed in the lead as one of the states that has a coast on the Atlantic. In the first section is said that it does not. Which is right? Klausok (talk) 07:35, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

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Poor map

Very poor map over the east coast. No states, no cities. --Ezzex (talk) 00:34, 13 September 2018 (UTC)

Connecticut Is Not Fronted On Atlantic Ocean

All Of Connecticut's shoreline is on the Long Island Sound. The States of New York and Rhode Island have territorial waters between CT and the Atlantic Ocean. <ref>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coastal_Connecticut/ref> Mwikichapedeial (talk) 12:56, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

Technically it isn't fronted on the ocean, but it is much more on the coast than my home state of Pennsylvania is. I am from Allentown which is a major city on the east end and I consider myself to be on the East Coast along with approximately half of my state, particularly the Philadelphia region, the Lehigh Valley, and the Poconos. Add my state to the definition and you tack on 13 million people. Like the Census Bureau, this seems to be an all-or-nothing definition. Heff01 (talk) 02:36, 23 February 2021 (UTC)