Talk:Eason Chan

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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 6 September 2020 and 6 December 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Js11323.

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Untitled

did eason study architecture at kingston university, london?

I can't do it, but I am pretty sure that it would conform with Wikipedia's style guidelines if the titles would be transcribed to latin lettering. Maybe somebody with a degree in sinology could magically pop up here? — Mütze 21:38, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

what do you mean? Luke 22:24, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

I mean the song and album titles. It has always been my impresseion that it is consiedered better to use the most common romanized transcription instead of chinese, japanese, kyrillic, etc. letters. Typically, original lettering is only added at the top of the article, displaying the original article's title, as it has been done here, too. — Mütze 23:09, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

YES Mütze, the titles should be Romanized ('in Latin lettering') but even above that IN ENGLISH! There's a difference you know 8-D The point is this is "E N G L I S H Language" WP. So... *everything* is in grammatical English. What's that Chinese doing there? Of course English is the language that 'takes' from other languages. Your "impresseion" - ie., the practice of including elements of source languages- this has to do with TRANSLATION. Ideally you are writing and English-only article. When a text is impossible to trasnslate accurately, when there are possibilites of mis-understandings due to textual complications- complications like obvious word-play (puns, jokes), use of unusual words via dialects, or via literate obscurity-- ie., only when the text makes it *necessary*--

Then English writers often include appropriate words in the original language as a way of explaining there's more going on than you can say. So then readers can go get a more accurate or more full meaning by going to a dictionary, or a bi-lingual speaker, etc. This process is *exactly* analogous to the Japanese "RUBY" translation format, presenting two "intalinear" versions of one text.

But there is *no* such standard around "song and album titles"... _unless_ these titles are canonic; ie., we write "Fur Elise" [in German] instead of "For Elisa" [in English] when we mean the famous Beethoven tune. This practice is easily overdone so it's generally *not* desirable. We must minimize the use of other languages in any general-interest English article- or we alienate that general audience.

The _principle_ here is: Accuracy. And accuracy is a prime difficulty in translation- especially in poetry. Certainly most poems (and lyrics) cannot survive translation- in which case they just wont be of any poetic interest to the English audience anyway. If these E.Chan lyrics are so important- so rich and dense with "word-play" of puns, historical references, multiple meanings etc., and you believe you must include Cantonese to give an accurate impression of the titles... then perhaps you should really be writing seperate articles examining the critical interpretation of these songs- and explain why our English WP audience should appreciate something of the Cantonese language to understand the songs. But I am guessing there are probably better, classical poems more worthy of your time... no?

The actual problems I have with the English "style" of this article are different. It's redundant; I can tell the article is both translated from a Cantonese article; and it appears that a nuymber of editors wrote this article and no-one read it all through for sense. It needs "editing" badly... [continued below] 07:00, 26 December 2008 (UTC) Hilarleo (talk) 02:34, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

fansite tag

"Eason Chan Yik-Shun is a prominent male singer and is a part of the skilled class (實力派) in Hong Kong's music industry." "Chan is not only a skilled singer, but also a versatile musician." It is mainly these two lines that make me feel that the tag was warranted. Fortunately it can be fixed easily. Keith Galveston (talk) 15:18, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

... And the #1 really really BIG problem with the article? The content. The tag-link lists many problems with "fan" tone- it's not any one line here, but certain lines do stand out as problematic. What I notice more is this article takes a l-o-n-g time to say basically nothing about the music- except to refer to some marketing trends and labels. The consistent uncritical tone, the redundant praises- it's irritating. So like, I get it- Hong Kong likes Eason, he's now, he's news (or was?). Wow, man. The same can be said of.... American Football, and Christianity , and Scientology- among other popular pursuits. This article merely makes the editors appear partisan- merely prejudiced. &Why is that?

I suspect this article will remain a "starter" - a fan-site -- until the editors learn their own take on "Critical Thinking". Your present "Criticism" section should be banned as gossip :-p Another singer- from another market- maybe lip-synchs? That's a "tangent" by definition. Tangents make BAD writing. Actual _Criticism_ is a mature and devloped perspective. And it can require difficult growth. Among their problems as WP content, Fan-sites _never_ have real criticism. Just for instance, to see- here's some actual criticism, from me, just for free,:

"As an older rock fan, I can see that Eason's productions are strongly influenced by Peter Gabrial's inventions with Genesis in the 1970's".

That's criticism- & useful too- b/c it observes deeply- and it implies something of Eason's actual, relative import by describing historical stylistic precedents. Here's another criticsm, , this one maybe not so free:

"What makes Eason "Chinese"- beyond his use of Chinese-language lyrics? Or... does Eason maybe represent more of the venerable English prog-rock techniques, marketed to and updated for Asian-language audiences?" 07:08, 26 December 2008 (UTC) Hilarleo (talk) 02:34, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Don't get us wrong, we know how to add criticism (see Jay Chou and S.H.E). It's just that not many people have stepped up to add content to this article. Most of the recent edits are just housekeeping. Pandacomics (talk) 16:14, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

I can only lol @ at the person talking yet not doing anything. We are all wikipedians, we all know this article looks bad, but we all have our hands pretty full. Be glad this article is even here. Dengero (talk) 16:46, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

propose deletion

No new 'content' is required to improve this- If you will remember from our beginner WP lessons: Less IS more. Simply removing partisan elements- ie the redundant praise- could improve this noticeably...& oh, hey what about the gossip- Stay or go? Anyone? Oh yeah, that's the crucial "Criticism" - & "we all know" all about that. The careful editor will also note that above I actually have proposed additional content to improve this article. But b/c I choose to invest in process, I'm not interested in tinkering inside the article per se: I'm not "glad" this fan article is here; &I won't care if it's soon gone. Any such suggestion seems proprietry. But I might nominate this fan article for deletion; Certainly if it doesnt rate the interest of contributors- as is claimed.

So, sorry if my suggestions raise emotions here, but I think emotion goes to the heart of these issues. Fansites and promotion are not the point of WP; Worse, fansites breed more fansites. This contributes confusion around what is appropriate- or "Good"- writing. I dont claim to represent or understand "Wikipedians" or anyone else; I am an editor who supports the guidelines- b/c "good" writing can support more clear thinking. For them who claim to "Be WP-ian", well, this ia a tagged fansite. And... what does WP do with fansites? Hilarleo (talk) 02:34, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

You can propose a deletion since no one will oppose you....until someone removes the tag as absurd straight away. Rather than spend so much time complaining, you can always try help out with all those suggestions you just gave. Otherwise, wait till someone does something. Dengero (talk) 03:02, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

To meet your rather outrageous challenge, I haven't lost any AfDs regarding the notability of Chinese-language musicians. To even suggest deletion pretty much tells us you have no idea who this guy is; if that were the case, you could tell us that it's poorly written. You did, but no, you had to cross the line. Pandacomics (talk) 05:52, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

LOL yes the majority of the article *IS* cringy and puke inducing - this is what happens when you let my fellow Chinese people contribute stuff to Wikipedia; they just kiss ass and write fluffy nonsense fanboi trash. You only have to look at the pathetic comebacks to the criticism on this page to realise we are dealing with inflexible morons - morons that think that uber lip synching puppet Ayumi Hamasaki's lip synching is a 'CONTROVERSY'. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 116.30.151.235 (talk) 04:35, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

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