Talk:Dushanbe/GA2

GA Review

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Reviewer: GeneralPoxter (talk · contribs) 23:15, 27 July 2021 (UTC)

Review

Comments in red are unaddressed points from the previous review.

Lead/infobox

• Population figure in lead does not need to be refed because it is already cited in the population table in the article.
  •  Done Zoozaz1 talk 05:02, 28 July 2021 (UTC)
• Population figures in infobox like urban density and metro area population do need refs because they are not found in the article (ditto for Area code and vehicle registration)
  •  Done: I've removed some of the data and added refs for the rest. Zoozaz1 talk 05:02, 28 July 2021 (UTC)
    • Do you know happen to know from which census/source the previously uncited population figures were from? GeneralPoxter (talk • contribs) 16:38, 28 July 2021 (UTC)

      One source gave the number in the infobox (urban population density) but what it referred to was ambiguous, and the only metro population source I found was off by about 20k and was from 2010 and not 2020, the year of the overall population count (not to mention the 2020 border expansion which makes these numbers even more confusing) so I just decided to delete the numbers. Zoozaz1 talk 17:03, 28 July 2021 (UTC)

      All right. GeneralPoxter (talk • contribs) 18:22, 28 July 2021 (UTC)

1 Etymology

• No comment

2 History

• What is the difference between Gissar and Hissar? Gissar Valley and Hissar (Hispar) Valley seem to be two separate places, but "Hissar" is only listed as an alternative spelling for the former?
  • They are alternative spellings for the same place; I presume the source is referring to the Hissar in Tajikistan both becauseHHissar doesn't seem to be a common alternative spelling to Hispar and the Hispar valley is south of Dushanbe while the source refers to an east-west route. Zoozaz1 talk 19:17, 28 July 2021 (UTC)
    • So could "Hissar culture" also be referred to as "Gissar culture" (we should stick to 1 spelling to avoid confusion)? GeneralPoxter (talk • contribs) 19:45, 28 July 2021 (UTC)

      Yes,  Done. Zoozaz1 talk 20:48, 28 July 2021 (UTC)

• Recommend using Template:Convert for distances
  •  Done. Zoozaz1 talk 17:07, 28 July 2021 (UTC)
• I'm struggling to follow from this section the control of the city. Was the Balkh independent? When did Hisor come into control? How did the Russian Government have the power to reallocate the city?
  • Follow up from me: It is generally unclear how Russians came to influence over the city; this is my primary concern
    • Thank you for noticing this. I looked into it more and the sources are saying different things. The Encyclopedia Iranica, a tertiary source, claimed that the Russians gave it to Bukhara, but looking into the secondary sources the encyclopedia cited they only say that Russia delaminated the boundary, not that Russia gave the territory to Bukhara. Looking further, modern secondary sources say that it was a Bukharan expedition not even supported by the Russia, but which presumably was recognized by the Russians after the fact. Zoozaz1 talk 20:43, 28 July 2021 (UTC)
• "He fled to Afghanistan after the Red Army conquered the area the next year, 4 March 1921." From the only online source referenced here, it seems that he fled on 4 March 1921 (this should be made clearer in the sentence), but it is unclear whether this was before or after the Red Army conquered Dushanbe.
  •  Done Note that every source is available online, and Tajkistan: A Political and Social History is an open access book which says (or at least implies) that he fled after the Soviet invasion. Zoozaz1 talk 19:17, 28 July 2021 (UTC)
• "Dushanbe also had the only Jewish population in the Tajik SSR (of about 600) whom were involved in trade and tailoring." The section this statement is in is on the Tajik ASSR. Does the source specify SSR or ASSR?
  •  Done Zoozaz1 talk 19:17, 28 July 2021 (UTC)
    • The new change is still not satisfactory. Now, I'm not sure whether there were 600 Jews before the Emir moved to the city? The ordering makes it seem like so, but "Before the Soviet invasion" is still ambiguous (since it seems the Emir was there before the Soviets). GeneralPoxter (talk • contribs) 19:45, 28 July 2021 (UTC)

       Fixed. Zoozaz1 talk 20:50, 28 July 2021 (UTC)

• "On 12 August 1924, the first newspaper of the town, Voice of the East, was published in Arabic and soon after a Russian-language paper, Red Tajikistan, began publication." Do we know the native-language names of these newspapers (i.e. the names in the language under which they were published?)
  •  Partly done: I wasn't able to find the Arabic name. Zoozaz1 talk 19:17, 28 July 2021 (UTC)
• "In 1924, the first regular plane route began from Dushanbe to Bukhara and another from Dushanbe to Tashkent, and the post office was set up." Should be specified that "the first regular plane routes from Dushanbe", not simply "first regular plane route" (the first regular plane route began before 1924 I assume). Also, the Russian-language source attributed with this statement does not seem to mention any plane routes (I used Google Translate)?
  •  Done: Google translate has "And one more event shocked the inhabitants of all the surrounding villages. On September 3, 1924, the first plane landed in Duchambe on its remote outskirts - on an endless field, currently starting from the former building of the Main Post Office to the building of the National State Bank of the Republic of Tatarstan. Joint Stock Company "Dobrolet" (Russian Society of Voluntary Air Fleet) opened an air line. And the regular movement of passenger aircraft began on the Bukhara-Dushambe route. At the end of 1924, the Duchambe-Tashkent line began to operate. This flight took about 10 hours;" with a very long page such as that one Google Translate often does not translate the entire page until you scroll down. Zoozaz1 talk 19:17, 28 July 2021 (UTC)
    • My bad for the source reading, but the current version is still not satisfactory. I changed it myself though, since you have provided the source material. GeneralPoxter (talk • contribs) 19:45, 28 July 2021 (UTC)
• Why are the 1923 telegraph and railroad developments mentioned after 1924 plane routes?
  •  Done Zoozaz1 talk 19:17, 28 July 2021 (UTC)
• Why is the map of the Tajik ASSR in the section for the Tajik SSR?
  •  Done Zoozaz1 talk 19:17, 28 July 2021 (UTC)
• "the population of Dushanbe and Tajikistan swelled with 100,000 evacuees from the front" Which front? I assume the Eastern Front (could also be linked)?
  •  Done Zoozaz1 talk 19:17, 28 July 2021 (UTC)
• "In the 1960s, under the leadership of Mahmudbek Narzibekov, the first zoo was built in the city along with a plan to end the housing shortage and provide free apartments." It says on the page for the Dushanbe Zoo that it was founded in 1960. This could be specified (and the zoo linked) in the article.
  •  Done Zoozaz1 talk 19:17, 28 July 2021 (UTC)
    • Okay, but does the source also specify whether the housing shortage plan and free apartment stuff also took place in 1960? GeneralPoxter (talk • contribs) 19:45, 28 July 2021 (UTC)

       Done Zoozaz1 talk 20:48, 28 July 2021 (UTC)

• Unclear where the Russian-backed government of Tajikistan came from. Was Rahmon's government Russian-backed (this should be clarified, if so)? I think the the cleanest way to deal with this would be to simply delete "On 24 November 1991, Rahmon Nabiev was elected President of Tajikistan, defeating Davlatnazar Khudonazarov." and "Nabiev was soon forced to resign before the government abolished the office of president and chose Emomoli Rahmon as head of state; in 1994, the office of president was re-established with Rahmon chosen to be president once again." since these have nothing to do with Dushanbe specifically, and thus, there is no need to establish which of these administrations were Russian-backed or not.
  •  Done Zoozaz1 talk 19:17, 28 July 2021 (UTC)
• "Iran, the United States, and Russia soon opened embassies in Dushanbe." Do we know exactly when (at least the year or month?)
  •  Done. Zoozaz1 talk 21:54, 30 July 2021 (UTC)
• Overall, there were some cases in which dates at the beginning of sentences as dependent clauses were not consistently followed by commas (I fixed them myself in this section). However, please see that the rest of the article is punctuated properly.

3 Geography

• Elevation numbers need a ref (ref 22 does not include everything)
  •  Done Zoozaz1 talk 21:27, 28 July 2021 (UTC)
• Elevation units could also use the Convert template
  •  Done Zoozaz1 talk 21:27, 28 July 2021 (UTC)
• What units are these earthquake magnitudes given in? (Richter scale? Moment magnitude scale?)
  •  Done (Moment magnitude) Zoozaz1 talk 21:27, 28 July 2021 (UTC)
    • Never mind, I forgot to check the link. This was fine as is. GeneralPoxter (talk • contribs) 21:42, 28 July 2021 (UTC)
• "...the winters are chilly but not very cold" Sounds like something more from a weatherman than from an encyclopedia? "Not very cold" is quite subjective depending on where you are from. Recommend just eliminating the entire sentence this is a part of, since climate classification already gives a precise and more objective description of the temperature/humidity.
  •  Removed Zoozaz1 talk 21:27, 28 July 2021 (UTC)
• "Winters are not as cold as further north..." Are we comparing this to other Tajik cities? This needs to be specified.
  •  Done Zoozaz1 talk 21:27, 28 July 2021 (UTC)
• "January 2008 was particularly cold, and the temperature dropped to −22 °C (−8 °F)." Is this a record low? If not, then this detail seems unnecessary.
  •  Removed Zoozaz1 talk 21:27, 28 July 2021 (UTC)
• What exactly is a "semi-savanna climate"? The link redirects to just "Savanna", which also doesn't really describe what a "semi-savanna climate" is, let alone, what a "savanna climate" is. It seems that savannas appear under a number of contemporary Köppen classifications.
  •  Removed Zoozaz1 talk 21:54, 30 July 2021 (UTC)
• There's no explanation for what the "green line" is.
  •  Fixed with a link. Zoozaz1 talk 21:27, 28 July 2021 (UTC)
• "one of the greenest capitals in Central Asia". There's only a handful of capitals in Central Asia.
  • Follow up: this doesn't even say that Dushanbe is the greenest of the capitals, just one of the greenest.
    •  Removed
• "including five rodents, foxes, and bats", a bit ambiguous.
  • Follow up: We don't have to list the exact species name of every one of these rodents, but do we at least know specifically, how many fox and how many bat species? The source is entirely in Tajik, so I'll leave this to you to figure out (I presume you have more knowledge in this language, since you nominated this article after all).
    •  Fixed (As a side note, I do not have more knowledge of the language then you). Zoozaz1 talk 21:27, 28 July 2021 (UTC)
      • Noted. GeneralPoxter (talk • contribs) 21:42, 28 July 2021 (UTC)
• "...with 3.11 million copies" Copies of what? Books, I assume?
  •  Done Zoozaz1 talk 21:27, 28 July 2021 (UTC)

4 Demographics

• "53,118 thousand people migrated to the city" I know the original source Google translates to this, but if this were true, then Dushanbe would be the largest city in the world. Can you check to see if all they really meant was 53,118 (I can't read Russian).
  • As the overall population increased from 619,000 in 2003 to 764,300 in 2013 I don't think it's too far-fetched that 53,118 people moved to the city from 2005-2014. Zoozaz1 talk 21:04, 28 July 2021 (UTC)
    • All right, so is it okay to cut "thousand" from the sentence? GeneralPoxter (talk • contribs) 21:50, 28 July 2021 (UTC)

      Oh I see the confusion, it must be 53,118, not 53,118 thousand, so cutting the thousand would be correct. Zoozaz1 talk 22:16, 28 July 2021 (UTC)

• I rearranged some sentences around for *what I think is* better organization (roughly chronological order). Feel free to revert though.
• The demographics section feels very very small. Outside of religion, it's two sentences. There's surely much more that could be said here in text, about the population structure, ethnicity, and so on.
  • Follow up: There is good work done on the population growth side of things, but the singular addition of a life expectancy statistic seems rather odd to me. Surely, there are still more things to add? See Kigali for examples of what to add.
• "In spring 2010, after the celebration of the Iranian New Year, Emomali Rahmon announced Dushanbe as the capital of Islamic culture."
  • Neither Rahmon nor the Iranian New Year seem to be mentioned in the source
  • The announcement in the source was made on September 9, 2009, not in 2010 (Dushanbe would become the culture capital in 2010)
  • The fact that the resolution was adopted by the Islamic World Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization should be mentioned to establish legitimacy/notability
  •  Done. Zoozaz1 talk 21:04, 28 July 2021 (UTC)
    • Not yet, not 10 September 2010, 9 September 2009. Also please check whether it was Rahmon who did the announcing, and it was mentioned in the article that the ISESCO approved the resolution in August, before the Mayor's announcement. GeneralPoxter (talk • contribs) 21:50, 28 July 2021 (UTC) (Also, it does not seem far-fetched that in 2010, Rahmon would proclaim Dushanbe as culture capital. Just wondering whether this was the result of a misread or whether the correct source got lost.) GeneralPoxter (talk • contribs) 21:50, 28 July 2021 (UTC)

       Done, not sure why I wrote that. Zoozaz1 talk 22:07, 28 July 2021 (UTC)

• "In October 2009, Rahmon launched the construction of a new central mosque in Dushanbe, which will replace the existing Haji Yakub Mosque, should become the largest in Central Asia, and will be built at the expense of Qatari investors." is not exactly parallel structure and was confusing on the first read-throughs. Rewording is suggested.
  •  Fixed. Zoozaz1 talk 21:04, 28 July 2021 (UTC)
• "(ROC Central Asian diocese of the Moscow diocese)" This detail can not be found in the cited source. It also does not make sense for the Central Asian diocese to be under or a part of the Moscow diocese? (unless the dioceses are hierarchical?)
  •  Fixed. Zoozaz1 talk 21:04, 28 July 2021 (UTC)
• "The spiritual center of the Orthodox Church in Dushanbe and the country is St. Nicholas Cathedral, whose permanent flock is up to a thousand parishioners." None of this (besides the fact that St. Nicholas is an Orthodox cathedral in Dushanbe) appears to be supported by the source.
  •  Fixed. Zoozaz1 talk 21:04, 28 July 2021 (UTC)

Notice: from here on out, I'll be mainly checking to see if the previous reviewer's concerns have been met; these comments are not comprehensive

5 Education

• What is a "national university" in terms of university classification?
• The University of International Relations mention lacks dates.

6 Transportation

• "...and then onto China or Kyrgyzstan." How can a road go onto "China or Kyrgyzstan"? Did the road builders forget which country they built it towards?
  •  Done Zoozaz1 talk 22:21, 28 July 2021 (UTC)
• "...while not going through Uzbekistan." Why? This makes even less sense given that later railways pass through or connect to Uzbekistan.
  •  Done Zoozaz1 talk 22:21, 28 July 2021 (UTC)
• It seems that all of the previous reviewer's concerns have been met for this section
• Follow up to the Rail transport concern: I noticed that the main "current" source for this is 3 years old. (for example, do we know that the government is still promoting "A proposed line from Dushanbe to Herat and Mashad"?) Also the chronology of this section is messed up, with current status going before past developments followed again by current railroad status.
• Native name of "Tajik Railways" (as provided here maybe?) should be included. Should also mention that the railways from Dushanbe are state-run.

7 Infrastructure

• Is the hydroelectricity really in Dushanbe, or is it produced near Dushanbe?
  • Follow up: On the article for the Nurek dam, it says that it is located some 47 mi east of Dushanbe. While the dam itself is relevant in Infrastructure, not sure whether its mention is relevant to the History section of the city proper.
• "For the 9-month period in 2019, 225 were buried here." Were an additional 225 buried in the cemetery, or were a total of 225 buried in the cemetery during that period?
• Healthcare subsection still seems pretty disorganized to me. The second paragraph discusses an assortment of facilities, and then the the third paragraph discusses an even greater assortment of facilities, with no clear chronological or thematic organization.
  •  Fixed Zoozaz1 talk 21:54, 30 July 2021 (UTC)

8 Economy

• "The industry produces over 300 types of products." What is "The industry"?
• Organization could be clarified in this section. There seems to be 1 paragraph on overall figures, 1 paragraph on trade, 2 paragraphs on manufacturing/industrial history (but not very chronological), followed by three sentences on retail, and a tourism paragraph
  • I recommend that a subsection be created for Manufacturing where the paragraphs be more distinctly arranged in chronological order, and another subsection for Service industry which encompasses retail and tourism.

9 Culture

• Suggestion for decreasing number of headings in TOC:
  • Condense Music, Dance, and Theater into one section called Performing arts (there is already some overlap in topic/content between sections that can be reduced)
  • Condense Painting and Sculpture into one section called Visual arts

This should hopefully result in only 5 distinct but decently-sized sections for Culture

 Done Zoozaz1 talk 21:27, 28 July 2021 (UTC)

Okay, but the newly merged section for Performing arts could now use some better work in chronological organization. GeneralPoxter (talk • contribs) 21:36, 28 July 2021 (UTC)

10 Media

• Much of the rest comes from a 2009 souce, which is more recent but still misses the last decade.
  • Follow up: The addition of one or two sentences at the end of each subsection does not amply meet this point, I believe. Surely, with the overall expansion of social media (and media in general) throughout the world, there would be more to say about the last few decades?

Judgement

I'm going to call a premature end to this review. Not all points from the last review were addressed (see red comments), including insufficient Demographic coverage and lack of clarity in History. In general, there were also stylistic issues (mainly lack of commas, and semicolons as separators) and organization problems. I do appreciate however, the overall improved structure as well as your prompt responses. I'm afraid however, that only 4 sections in, and the issues regarding this article are already beyond minor prose fixes. I am failing this nomination, but please feel free to ping me when you decide to renominate as I'll be happy to look over again. GeneralPoxter (talk • contribs) 21:31, 28 July 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for the review, if I have time I'll keeping trying to get it to GA status. Zoozaz1 talk 21:46, 28 July 2021 (UTC)

No problem. It's a mighty big article, and you've already accomplished quite a lot for its current state. GeneralPoxter (talk • contribs) 21:52, 28 July 2021 (UTC)