Talk:Dunnottar Castle/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Hchc2009 (talk · contribs) 08:07, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

I'll read through today and start the review proper tonight. Hchc2009 (talk) 08:07, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

Looks really good. Some minor points below, will put on hold now. Hchc2009 (talk) 08:06, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

Nice work (really like the map by the way!). Passed at GA. Hchc2009 (talk) 08:56, 16 December 2012 (UTC)

Well-written:

(a) the prose is clear and concise, respects copyright laws, and the spelling and grammar are correct;

Substantive points:

• "Early Middle Ages" section. I found this a little hard to follow. I suspect it probably needs an explanatory sentence at the beginning, something like "It is uncertain when the first fortification at Dunnottar was constructed..." or something like that, to bind the rest of the sentences together.

Added an introductory half-sentence as you suggest, better? Jonathan Oldenbuck (talk) 15:17, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

• "William Keith completed construction of the tower house at Dunnottar, but was excommunicated on the basis of damaging consecrated ground, as previously the only building on the headland had been the parish church." - I didn't get this; wasn't there a castle and a castle church already on the site? Or was this just a cover story for the excommunication?

I didn't get this for a while either, but seems you're right, the church was not the only building on site. Jonathan Oldenbuck (talk) 15:17, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

Minor points:

• First para of lead: two "largely"s in close succession. Worth linking Oliver Cromwell?
• Second para of lead. Worth a comma after North Sea?
• "Dunnottar's strategic location allowed its owners to control the coastal terrace between the North Sea cliffs and the hills of the Mounth, 3.5 kilometres (2.2 mi) inland, which enables access to and from the north-east of Scotland." The tense shifts here between the past and the current; it would probably read better it was "which enabled access to and from..." - i.e. past in both cases.
• Probably worth linking gun port somewhere in the article. Hchc2009 (talk) 08:03, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

All done except the last, as gun port is an article about ships.Jonathan Oldenbuck (talk) 15:17, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

(b) it complies with the manual of style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation.

• Seems fine at this stage. Hchc2009 (talk) 07:50, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

Factually accurate and verifiable:

(a) it provides references to all sources of information in the section(s) dedicated to the attribution of these sources according to the guide to layout;

• The ODNB citations all have double brackets, e.g. "((subscription or UK public library membership required))" Hchc2009 (talk) 07:50, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

Should be fixed. Jonathan Oldenbuck (talk) 15:17, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

(b) it provides in-line citations from reliable sources for direct quotations, statistics, published opinion, counter-intuitive or controversial statements that are challenged or likely to be challenged, and contentious material relating to living persons—science-based articles should follow the scientific citation guidelines;

• Seems fine at this stage. Hchc2009 (talk) 07:50, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

• Not strictly counter to the GA guidelines, but "The cellar, located beneath the "King's Bedroom" in the 16th century castle buildings, has since become known as the "Whigs' Vault"."; "The dominant building, viewed from the land approach, is the 14th-century keep or tower house. The other principal buildings are the gatehouse; the chapel; and the 16th-century "palace" which incorporates the "Whigs' Vault"." and "A second access to the castle leads up from a rocky cove, the aperture to a marine cave on the eastern side of the Dunnottar cliffs. From here a steep path leads to the well-fortified postern gate, on the cliff top at the south-east corner of the headland." aren't referenced (not sure if this was deliberate or not). Hchc2009 (talk) 17:58, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

OK, dealt with the first and last, the middle one is just an intro to the following paragraphs. Could possibly refer back to the listed building refs if necessary, but not really saying the same thing... Jonathan Oldenbuck (talk) 15:19, 13 December 2012 (UTC)

(c) it contains no original research.

• None found so far. Hchc2009 (talk) 17:58, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

Broad in its coverage:

(a) it addresses the main aspects of the topic;

• It's a shame there's no plan of the castle. There's a PD 19th century plan of the castle on pg.563 [[1]]; I don't know how accurate it is though. Hchc2009 (talk) 07:50, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the pointe to MacGibbon and Ross, though I was already working on a less detailed but hopefully clearer map which is now in place. Jonathan Oldenbuck (talk) 15:19, 13 December 2012 (UTC)

(b) it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style).

• All good. Hchc2009 (talk) 07:50, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without bias, giving due weight to each.

• Neutral. Hchc2009 (talk) 17:55, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute.

• Stable. Hchc2009 (talk) 17:55, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

Illustrated, if possible, by images:

(a) images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid fair use rationales are provided for non-free content;

• Tagged correctly. Hchc2009 (talk) 17:55, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

(b) images are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions.

• Relevant and captioned. Hchc2009 (talk) 17:55, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

Many thanks for the review. I finally tracked down a copy of W. D. Simpson's guide book, which has furnished a few additional details (like the fact that I had the postern in the wrong place!) But I think I have addressed the points you raise, let me know if you feel anything else needs doing. Thanks, Jonathan Oldenbuck (talk) 15:19, 13 December 2012 (UTC)