Talk:Douglas Cochrane, 12th Earl of Dundonald

Date of ceasing to use the title "Lord Cochrane"

Hi Hogyncymru (apologies for stumbling across you once again),

Can you explain what you mean about your edit changing "styled Lord Cochrane between 1860 and 1885" to "...and 1886"?

Lord Cochrane is the junior subsidiary title of Earl of Dundonald, so was used by Douglas Cochrane as a courtesy title while he was heir to the Earldom; until 1885, when his father died (apologies, I wrote brother in the edit summary) and he became Earl Dundonald. He wouldn't have been styled Lord Cochrane after that, because he was the Earl of Dundonald. Unless you think his father didn't die in 1885?

I don't understand the relevance of your edit summaries on either the change or the revert ('he was a peer until 86' or 'not the same person')? TSP (talk) 12:43, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

If you looked at the reference I used, it shows that he continued to be a peer until at least 86 because he was re-elected that same year, he was possibly still a peer up to Jan of 87 (but this is something I cannot find evidence of, which is why I kept it to 86), as for the title 'Lord Cochrane', there were a few from the same family who had similar titles, such as 'Lord Cochrane of Cults', but as far as I can see from more than 100 articles, Douglas was known as 'Lord Cochrane' along with 'Earl of Dundonald' up until his death, I said 'not the same person', perhaps by mistake because you said brother, as I meant 'not the same title', the date of 86 however does not reflect date he stopped being a British Army General.. there are more juicy events in his life that are not published in any books or newspaper articles which I have no authority to publish here, but perhaps one day, they'll resurface. regards. Hogyncymru (talk) 13:50, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

Yes, apologies if my misremembering between father and brother in the edit comment caused confusion.

The lower title "Lord Cochrane" was used because he wasn't a peer - the peerage title is Earl of Dundonald, but that was his father, until his father's death in 1885. As described at Courtesy titles in the United Kingdom#Children of peers, If a peer of one of the top three ranks of the peerage (a duke, marquess or earl) has more than one title, his eldest son – himself not a peer – may use one of his father's lesser titles "by courtesy". Hence, until 1885, Douglas was known as Lord Cochrane.

But after 1885, he would have been known as the Earl of Dundonald - which is what enabled him to be elected as a Scottish Representative Peer for the first time in 1886; according to our List of Scottish representative peers, he remained a Scottish Representative Peer until 1922 (despite serving in Canada for some of that time). He remained a peer, and Earl of Dundonald, until he died in 1935.

I can't think of a reason he would have been known as Lord Cochrane after that point. And after the birth of his son, Thomas, "Lord Cochrane" would have meant Thomas, not Douglas. TSP (talk) 14:55, 8 August 2023 (UTC)