Talk:Double Lz

BLP removal

I have removed some contentious material from this article that was not supported by a citation to a reliable source, as required by WP:BLPRS. These claims may not be reinserted into the article unless accompanied by a citation to a reliable source. I have also removed related claims that, while supported with a citation, give undue weight to a topic that is not apparently relevant to this article. These claims should not be reintroduced without consensus that they are relevant and a more direct relation to Double Lz. AntiCompositeNumber (talk) 17:16, 31 January 2022 (UTC)

I have reinserted them because there is a source with that information. The UNDUE WEIGHT argument is a bit of a red herring because it takes up little more than a sentance within the article. So lets focus on the sources shall we. Which element of the statement are you claiming is not sourced?--Donniediamond (talk) 15:19, 1 February 2022 (UTC)

As far as I know, he's referring to Double Lz's name; I've done searches before in an attempt to find a RS for it, but I couldn't find anything. Hwqaksd (talk) 17:35, 1 February 2022 (UTC)

Pretty sure Bando and Lz both got named today in court due to the Selfridges stabbing case. --Donniediamond (talk) 18:34, 1 February 2022 (UTC)

Fair enough; couldn't find anything that explicitly links Double Lz's name as Andre Deer, though. Hwqaksd (talk) 18:38, 1 February 2022 (UTC)

Evening Standard about violent disorder lists Andre Deer as 19; putting this through {{Birth based on age as of date}} gives the same result as the Complex article. Maybe something could be found if I look through the BPI repositore. Hwqaksd (talk) 18:08, 29 April 2022 (UTC)

For now, I'm going to go under the assumption that the "rap collective" that Bandokay and Double Lz are a part of refers to the OFB trio. Hwqaksd (talk) 16:46, 20 May 2022 (UTC)

As for undue weight, UNDUE says that "Undue weight can be given in several ways, including but not limited to the depth of detail, the quantity of text, prominence of placement, the juxtaposition of statements, and the use of imagery." I'd assume that the sentence regarding Double Lz's father matches one of these criteria. Hwqaksd (talk) 17:42, 1 February 2022 (UTC)

I think you are misunderstanding UNDUE. What viewpoint is not being represented by the inclusion of this information?--Donniediamond (talk) 18:00, 1 February 2022 (UTC)

I'd assume that a viewpoint is being represented within the article; this viewpoint could be the shooting of Mark Duggan, as there's no mention within said article nor the media of Kevin Hutchinson-Foster being the main topic of the case. Hwqaksd (talk) 18:46, 1 February 2022 (UTC)

Still not sure how any of this relates to UNDUE. If some were saying he wasn't involved and some sources were saying he was then you might have a point but it a pretty straight forward matter of fact. --Donniediamond (talk) 18:57, 1 February 2022 (UTC)

Wait, I'm pretty sure I was using the wrong policy; instead of UNDUE, the thing that would be appropriate for this would be COATRACK. My apologies for that. Hwqaksd (talk) 19:10, 1 February 2022 (UTC)

COATRACK is an essay not a Policy. Also I don't think it applies. Coatrack refers to articles which are mostly about something else other than what the article is supposed to be about. This is one sentence with a whole article so not a COATRACK. If the article was about Double Lz and the majority of the article was about apples or oranges then that would be a coatrack article.

Anyway, all of this is nonsense and a waste of time. The real matter is if the contents of the article are properly sourced, proportionate and relevant to Double Lz background story, the same way what happened to Mark Duggan is relevant to Bando's background story. In my opinion they are. If you believe any of it is not properly sourced then lets hear that. --Donniediamond (talk) 13:07, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

To be fair, I agree with you that this is a waste of time.

As for the "pistol-whipping" part (which, as far as I know, was the main reason the portion was removed per User talk:AntiCompositeNumber#Double Lz), I found a source that says he had done so ([1], "He had used the gun to pistol-whip a barber in a hair salon in Hackney on 29 July and the blood of both men was found on the weapon, the court heard."), so that knocks out sourcing; for relevancy, REL provides a list of how relevant a statement could be within an article (I do acknowledge that this is an essay and not a policy; I'd still say it holds some weight here, though). Hwqaksd (talk) 18:10, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

I should probably return to this, as no consensus was reached (Donniediamond was blocked as a sockpuppet sometime after the original discussion).

REL gives an example of something that is considered a "very low" relevance level, ie "Murderer Larry Jones, also a member of the XYZ organization which John Smith belonged to, murdered 8 people." This seems to be in line with the mention of Kevin Hutchinson-Foster and him giving a gun to Mark Duggan prior to the latter's death. Perhaps something along the lines of "Double Lz is the son of Kevin Hutchinson-Foster, a drug dealer who was jailed for 11 years in 2013 for providing a gun to Mark Duggan prior to his death." could do here. Hwqaksd (talk) 15:35, 14 April 2022 (UTC)